Welcome again to everybody. Make yourself at home. In the time-honoured tradition of our group, here is the weekly discussion thread.
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That’s a ridiculous argument to make on an instance that frequently calls for death to various reactionaries. Your position on this fundamentally comes down to your own reactionary position on non-human animals, in seeing thinking, feeling, independent beings as the same as or little better than objects. Eiren’s anger was fully justified at someone who was advocating for a concentration camp.
Would you ban someone who insulted a reactionary that said, for example, that Native American reservations were a good thing and that the schools native children were sent to were a ‘charity’ that helped them by giving them an education? I’m sure you wouldn’t ban someone for insulting a reactionary like that. You’d rather ban the reactionary. You’d understand why someone was angry at a reactionary who said that. That you take the opposite approach here is no fault of Eiren’s, but rather your reactionary beliefs.
If you think that that’s an unfair thing to say, or that it’s ridiculous to compare humans and non-human animals, once again this attitude just stems from your own reactionary position. Humans are animals, there’s no reason not to compare them. Non-human animals are capable of feeling emotions like fear, pain, suffering, stress and also joy, happiness, bonds etc. They don’t want to die. They don’t want to be caged. They don’t want to be raped. They don’t want their children ripped away from them shortly after they’re born. These are all object scientific facts. There is no reason not to consider non-human animals to be people and to treat them with the dignity that that entails.
Lemmygrad is not pro-animal nor anti-animal so there is no reason to have a meltdown on this issue and go insulting other users for not being radically anti animal sanctuaries. User broke the rules and got a temp ban so they can calm down, no reason to go debatebroing this thing.
Removed by mod
That conversation could have been solved if Eiren calmly explained her position to the people in the thread(which is what NotMushroomForDebate did). That will have been more productive and helpful than actually insulting others as an irrational person.
As for the reactionaries that occasionally come here, they don’t come here to talk but to actually shout their racism against plenty of people. This is an example from the community Korea -> https://lemmygrad.ml/post/9012898/6943775
Even with that disgusting comment looking down on our NK comrades, people actually joined the thread and explained why it is wrong. However, racists love to double down because they need their licensing for the bigotry. They need it as a way to feel superior to the oppressed. That’s very different.
We were talking about an animal sanctuary, not a factory farm. Please don’t jump into a conversation with ridiculous comparisons when you don’t even know the topic of discussion.
I read the whole previous thread before commenting. No, they weren’t talking about a sanctuary, they were talking about an aquarium that uses non-human animals to make money. That’s the whole thing that (justifiably) pissed of Eiren. Calling it a sanctuary is white-washing. Like how people will white-wash native schools. Once again, the only reason you think my comparisons are ridiculous are because of your fundamentally reactionary and unjustifiable belief that non-human animals are objects to used for human pleasure, to be looked at for entertainment or murdered to make a meal slightly tastier.
The Hexbear user in question mentioned the Monterey Bay Aquarium, referring to it as an animal sanctuary. Eiren described it as “an incarceration and psychological torture facility for wild animals”, without further explanation. She also subsequently claimed that “all aquariums and zoos are torture facilities”, with no indication that this specific organization was particularly bad (which it may be, but that’s irrelevant to the ban). Rather than explaining why it is problematic, Eiren immediately insulted the Hexbear user, and this is the only reason for her ban. I would appreciate if you’d stop putting words in my mouth.
Because your position is purist. There’s plenty of situations where in the global south immediate survival or traditional cuisine outweighs the sensibilities and moral values of western values on animals. That’s really the crux of it. That’s your values and part of it comes from a colonizing sense that these people must adopt and rigidly structure their culture and way of life to your strict ideologues. I don’t expect the indigenous in Alaska to start changing their habits or cultural values.
We in the west can certainly change ours, I moved towards vegetarianism myself.
It’s the same reason I don’t expect indigenous people to immediately embrace Marxism-Leninism. All though, it could be argued that it is considered in some theory. People will have to come to and slowly adopt these positions through experimentation, learning from the past and the material conditions that they exist in.
I’d argue that animal consumption could be entirely out the window even in some third-world countries when it becomes efficient, incredibly cheap and less energy-intensive to just print meat. Could be a hundred years off, could be a couple hundred.
Even after the “revolution”, animal sanctuaries/entertainment might be around until we can fully simulate them. Dogs and cats will be around, I can promise you those aren’t going away anytime soon; but maybe once we unlock full genetic modification of an entire species at once.
edit: Immediately downvoting my comment doesn’t exactly lend any counterpoint to “purism”.