EDIT: I seem to have upset the try hards. I’m sorry, but playing the the same part of a game over and over again and then beating it doesn’t make you special or give you any real life accolades… It’s a fuckin’ game. People play games to relax.
Games are supposed to be fun. End of conversation. There shouldn’t be a game that some people can’t beat just because they have slower reaction times or have a disability that prevents them from playing something such as Dark Souls. Dark Souls is a great game, but dying to some of the lower level enemies because they kept hit stunning me isn’t fun or cool in the slightest. It’s just fucking annoying. I can’t even imagine what someone who has disabilities or slower reaction times would feel.
Also, quit fucking gatekeeping games people. Jesus.
Heh, it’s funny that you accuse people of gatekeeping when the only person doing gatekeeping here is you: “games are supposed to be fun”. No, games are supposed to be whatever the fuck their creators want them to be, and then you get to pick and choose which ones (out of the millions and millions of videogames being created, enough for several lifetimes) you want to spend your valuable time on.
You trying to dictate how creators should create their creations is very rich. Get in the fucking ring and create something, then you’ll get to dictate to yourself as much as you want on how your game should be created.
Games are supposed to be fun, but they’re not supposed to be fun for everyone.
So, some people will not enjoy dark souls, because the main gameplay - learning movesets until you’re able to not die to them - is not fun for some people. On the other hand, learning movesets at a really slow pace because the run back to the boss takes ages, or a boss that you can learn quite well but takes ages to kill because it leaves very few openings, or a boss that you would be able to learn except it’s in a tiny arena and the camera always fucks up… these are all areas in which dark souls games sometimes let down players who are geared to enjoy them.
This is why it should be even easier for consumers to return games. Playing a game and deciding it’s not for you is one thing. Playing a game and realizing you just flushed $70 down the toilet is infuriating.
Let’s turn, “I deserve to get my money’s worth” into “I deserve to get my money back.”
Yeah they’re not great when it comes to some stuff for returns.
Last year I bought Assassins Creed 1 and 2 on sale. I played through 1 first, had a lovely time, then went to 2 and noticed some annoying graphical issues. Things that seemingly can’t be fixed after I tried with various mods and patches.
I had only played it for 30 minutes so i tried to get a refund and they declined me because I had bought it so long ago, even though I argued that the game was technically too broken for me to play.
I had to just suck it up and just play it on the PS4 with the Ezio Collection.
Yeah, it should be based on playtime though there’s probably a reason why it isn’t. There are times were I’d have a game in my library that I only get to many months after purchase only to find out its not what I was expecting.
Eh, fun isn’t the only thing people want from entertainment but even if that were always true there isn’t any reason niche games shouldn’t exist. Who am I to tell someone what kind of game they should play. Lots of games out there that I won’t play because I know it’s not for me - sometimes that sucks cause I like the art or the concept and wish the mechanics were what I want but they aren’t and I move on.
Catering to “most” also results in games that tend to be homogeneous in some way and that sucks for those that want niche. Also sucks when niche exists and gets ruined to appeal to “most” but that’s just how it goes.
Deep breaths, it’s gonna be OK. You are saying that all games should include a toggle/slider. I don’t agree. Devs should make games they want to make and I’ll play them if they appeal to me and you should too. But don’t get bent when they don’t have a feature you want.
Ugh. You people just don’t get it. You’re essentially saying that people who can’t physically interact with the game like you and I can are just shit out of luck. It’s literally not about me in anyway whatsoever. I can play them just fine.
I love video games, and I just think that they should be accessible to everyone. Whether that be a difficulty slider or just some accessibility options for those who need them. I want everyone to be able to play some of the games I love, so that I can have more people to talk about it with.
Thats the difference between me and most of the other people like you here in these comments. I’m not asking for them for me, I don’t need them. I’m asking them for people who would love to be able to play some of these big franchises but physically can’t.
Again, gatekeeping is such a fucking weird thing to do.
It’s not gate keeping, and the demand is unreasonable. Not all modes of transportation require accommodation for everyone. A paraplegic is not riding a motorcycle. That’s not a dig at them. And despite your frustration it doesn’t make your opinion more valid than a developer’s.
EDIT: Oh WAIT! I just realized I didn’t say anything about your motorcycle example. Get this. They have an attachment, a side car, that can go on the side of motorcycles that can allow a passenger. This passenger can be paraplegic! Amazing!
Ah yes. So unreasonable. I guess all the others games that include those kind of options just don’t exist!
“People play games to relax, they’re supposed to be fun” your preference for relaxing is not universal, your inability to enjoy any particular game is your own problem, the mere existence of shit that was not made for you is not in any way gatekeeping
You have the option to play a different game or none at all, if you choose not to avail yourself of that option then you have voluntarily selected your difficulty
Video games are art. Just like a movie can be sad or a painting can be distressing, video games are allowed to explore all kinds of emotions.
Sometimes a higher difficulty is part of the artist’s vision. They get to decide how they convey what they want to convey.
One of my favorite new games is UFO 50. It’s a collection of retro-style games where some of them are genuinely very difficult, and others are just do a great job of simulating difficulty. The difficulty drops off right around the time you start to get a handle on the mechanics, so it’s hard to tell if it’s the game getting easier or if you’re just getting better.
I’ve beaten the Dark Souls trilogy and Elden Ring. I didn’t have fun when I was dying to the combat, I was having a BLAST with the exploration and the rest of the games mechanics. It’s almost like you can have both be fun…
What are the rest of the mechanics? It’s almost all combat and exploration (that leads to more combat). There’s no, like, base building or grand strategy or romance plots.
That said, I don’t think you can please everyone. I found the games enjoyable as they are.
The armor/weapon system is fantastic, the level up system is simplistic, but also super in depth, the level design and how everything connects is amazing, etc. etc.
You can though. You add a difficulty slider, or some options in an accessibility menu. God of War (2018), and God of War Ragnarok, the newer Spider-Man games, and probably some of the other Playstation exclusives ALL have options in game that allow people to play their games. I don’t want to hear that nonsense that it just can’t be done.
I consider the weapon system part of the combat. I guess the leveling system is its own mechanic, but it’s super shallow compared to many other games (eg: path of exile, or even Baldur’s gâte)
Some people wouldn’t be happy with a difficulty slider. Some people would use the slider to make themselves unhappy. Either by turning it too high due to hubris, or too low from lack of confidence. The unified difficulty of the souls games for many people is a plus, and creates a sense of shared struggle they enjoy.
And as I said elsewhere, I really don’t think meta game options are the only way to do difficulty.
Nobody is putting a gun to your head and forcing you to play every game. Not every game has to be for everybody, and that’s ok. The exact same criticism can be made the other way around, that no game should be too easy because boredom is bad. And it’s exactly as stupid an argument in either direction.
Of course not. I do believe that gatekeeping gaming is a fucking stupid thing to do though. Not every game HAS to be for everyone, and that’s not even what I’m saying so bad argument to begin with.
What I AM saying though, is more people can play the same games and… GASP… actually be able to talk to their more hardcore friends about the game that their friend recommended! Man! What an idea!
There is nothing preventing YOU from playing on the highest, most hardcore gamer difficulty, so again, your point is moot.
My point is preventing people who aren’t able to function on the same level as a “normal” human from playing one of the biggest franchises in gaming history is stupid and there is nothing and no reason whatsoever to exempt them from being able to enjoy the games other than this stupid ass arbitrary gatekeeping bullshit a lot of so called gamers like to pull out.
You can still sit there and run around with no armor and do a no hit run. There is literally nothing stopping you from that… unless… you want to play on an easier difficulty and don’t want to admit it…?
actually be able to talk to their more hardcore friends about the game that their friend recommended!
The journey is often as important to the experience. It would be like your friend telling you about a great hike but then driving to the top just to talk about the view.
God, I wish I lived in a fantasy world. But, unfortunately, I have to exist alongside people who can’t think of anyone other than themselves. Like… most of the commenters here who kept trying to bring up what they believe to be valid points, but really just paint themselves as assholes who don’t want people to be able to enjoy their hardcore gamer games. Oh well. There plenty of people like you out there.
That’s such a lame ass rebuke. It can be done, has been done, and will continue to be done by developers who actually care about the medium and want more people to play their games. Did we not fucking invent braille so blind people can read???
EDIT: I seem to have upset the try hards. I’m sorry, but playing the the same part of a game over and over again and then beating it doesn’t make you special or give you any real life accolades… It’s a fuckin’ game. People play games to relax.
Games are supposed to be fun. End of conversation. There shouldn’t be a game that some people can’t beat just because they have slower reaction times or have a disability that prevents them from playing something such as Dark Souls. Dark Souls is a great game, but dying to some of the lower level enemies because they kept hit stunning me isn’t fun or cool in the slightest. It’s just fucking annoying. I can’t even imagine what someone who has disabilities or slower reaction times would feel.
Also, quit fucking gatekeeping games people. Jesus.
Heh, it’s funny that you accuse people of gatekeeping when the only person doing gatekeeping here is you: “games are supposed to be fun”. No, games are supposed to be whatever the fuck their creators want them to be, and then you get to pick and choose which ones (out of the millions and millions of videogames being created, enough for several lifetimes) you want to spend your valuable time on. You trying to dictate how creators should create their creations is very rich. Get in the fucking ring and create something, then you’ll get to dictate to yourself as much as you want on how your game should be created.
Games are supposed to be fun, but they’re not supposed to be fun for everyone.
So, some people will not enjoy dark souls, because the main gameplay - learning movesets until you’re able to not die to them - is not fun for some people. On the other hand, learning movesets at a really slow pace because the run back to the boss takes ages, or a boss that you can learn quite well but takes ages to kill because it leaves very few openings, or a boss that you would be able to learn except it’s in a tiny arena and the camera always fucks up… these are all areas in which dark souls games sometimes let down players who are geared to enjoy them.
This is why it should be even easier for consumers to return games. Playing a game and deciding it’s not for you is one thing. Playing a game and realizing you just flushed $70 down the toilet is infuriating.
Let’s turn, “I deserve to get my money’s worth” into “I deserve to get my money back.”
Steam is pretty good for that I guess.
Not if the game wastes your time between boss attempts before you realise you’re not having fun anymore but that your return window has now expired
Yeah that’s as potential issue
Yeah they’re not great when it comes to some stuff for returns.
Last year I bought Assassins Creed 1 and 2 on sale. I played through 1 first, had a lovely time, then went to 2 and noticed some annoying graphical issues. Things that seemingly can’t be fixed after I tried with various mods and patches.
I had only played it for 30 minutes so i tried to get a refund and they declined me because I had bought it so long ago, even though I argued that the game was technically too broken for me to play.
I had to just suck it up and just play it on the PS4 with the Ezio Collection.
Yeah, it should be based on playtime though there’s probably a reason why it isn’t. There are times were I’d have a game in my library that I only get to many months after purchase only to find out its not what I was expecting.
In my eyes, yes, games are supposed to be fun for MOST people. It’s… like… the whole point of it being an entertainment product…
Eh, fun isn’t the only thing people want from entertainment but even if that were always true there isn’t any reason niche games shouldn’t exist. Who am I to tell someone what kind of game they should play. Lots of games out there that I won’t play because I know it’s not for me - sometimes that sucks cause I like the art or the concept and wish the mechanics were what I want but they aren’t and I move on.
Catering to “most” also results in games that tend to be homogeneous in some way and that sucks for those that want niche. Also sucks when niche exists and gets ruined to appeal to “most” but that’s just how it goes.
Sometimes I wonder if I just don’t know how to properly type in English or if people really do have a hard time reading.
No one is telling anybody what to do. It’s a fucking OPTION that a player can TOGGLE to make the game more accessible TO THEM.
Gatekeeping games is simply a dumbass thing to think and do. So fucking weird.
Deep breaths, it’s gonna be OK. You are saying that all games should include a toggle/slider. I don’t agree. Devs should make games they want to make and I’ll play them if they appeal to me and you should too. But don’t get bent when they don’t have a feature you want.
Ugh. You people just don’t get it. You’re essentially saying that people who can’t physically interact with the game like you and I can are just shit out of luck. It’s literally not about me in anyway whatsoever. I can play them just fine.
I love video games, and I just think that they should be accessible to everyone. Whether that be a difficulty slider or just some accessibility options for those who need them. I want everyone to be able to play some of the games I love, so that I can have more people to talk about it with.
Thats the difference between me and most of the other people like you here in these comments. I’m not asking for them for me, I don’t need them. I’m asking them for people who would love to be able to play some of these big franchises but physically can’t.
Again, gatekeeping is such a fucking weird thing to do.
It’s not gate keeping, and the demand is unreasonable. Not all modes of transportation require accommodation for everyone. A paraplegic is not riding a motorcycle. That’s not a dig at them. And despite your frustration it doesn’t make your opinion more valid than a developer’s.
EDIT: Oh WAIT! I just realized I didn’t say anything about your motorcycle example. Get this. They have an attachment, a side car, that can go on the side of motorcycles that can allow a passenger. This passenger can be paraplegic! Amazing!
Ah yes. So unreasonable. I guess all the others games that include those kind of options just don’t exist!
And that option being present would literally compromise the artistic vision of basically an entire genre of games
Doesn’t seem to stop other game devs, but sure. Keep up the gatekeeping.
“People play games to relax, they’re supposed to be fun” your preference for relaxing is not universal, your inability to enjoy any particular game is your own problem, the mere existence of shit that was not made for you is not in any way gatekeeping
No indeed, that is why you have DIFFICULTY OPTIONS.
Thanks for coming to my Ted talk.
You have the option to play a different game or none at all, if you choose not to avail yourself of that option then you have voluntarily selected your difficulty
Video games are art. Just like a movie can be sad or a painting can be distressing, video games are allowed to explore all kinds of emotions.
Sometimes a higher difficulty is part of the artist’s vision. They get to decide how they convey what they want to convey.
One of my favorite new games is UFO 50. It’s a collection of retro-style games where some of them are genuinely very difficult, and others are just do a great job of simulating difficulty. The difficulty drops off right around the time you start to get a handle on the mechanics, so it’s hard to tell if it’s the game getting easier or if you’re just getting better.
So, you believe that gatekeeping games is cool then? That’s so lame. “Gamers” are weird, man.
Is the existence of the film Stalker somehow gatekeeping movies? Just don’t fucking watch it.
The difference is the medium. We are not talking about movies, but you insist upon making it about them. You don’t have a real argument. It’s okay.
They are literally saying that games are allowed to be difficult. Do you think horror movies should have a scary slider?
Are… movies an interactive entertainment medium…?
Oh, right. No they’re not. So, that doesn’t really track.
If they’re fucking “allowed” to be difficult, then they’re “allowed” to be easier if the player WANTS that.
“Allowed” and “required” are not the same thing, you’re arguing for them to be required, which is crybaby bullshit.
lol. Okay buddy.
That’s literally what you’re doing. How is that not what you are doing?
I can’t grant you the power of understanding context. You must find that yourself.
Why is interactivity a special trait for this discussion?
Because that’s the part that makes video games, video games.
Sure, it’s what makes them powerfully immersive. I’m asking why being interactive means they have to be the most accessible form of art.
Because they can be. It’s really as simple as that.
👍
Why is this happening? Get some armor. Or a big shield. Or a bow or spells. Or just, like, run past them. None of that requires lightning reflexes.
Sometimes people are like “I want to play this game and not engage with any of its systems” and I’m just like why.
I’ve beaten the Dark Souls trilogy and Elden Ring. I didn’t have fun when I was dying to the combat, I was having a BLAST with the exploration and the rest of the games mechanics. It’s almost like you can have both be fun…
Try Sekiro maybe. It has the most fun and rewarding combat of any game I have ever played.
What are the rest of the mechanics? It’s almost all combat and exploration (that leads to more combat). There’s no, like, base building or grand strategy or romance plots.
That said, I don’t think you can please everyone. I found the games enjoyable as they are.
The armor/weapon system is fantastic, the level up system is simplistic, but also super in depth, the level design and how everything connects is amazing, etc. etc.
You can though. You add a difficulty slider, or some options in an accessibility menu. God of War (2018), and God of War Ragnarok, the newer Spider-Man games, and probably some of the other Playstation exclusives ALL have options in game that allow people to play their games. I don’t want to hear that nonsense that it just can’t be done.
I consider the weapon system part of the combat. I guess the leveling system is its own mechanic, but it’s super shallow compared to many other games (eg: path of exile, or even Baldur’s gâte)
Some people wouldn’t be happy with a difficulty slider. Some people would use the slider to make themselves unhappy. Either by turning it too high due to hubris, or too low from lack of confidence. The unified difficulty of the souls games for many people is a plus, and creates a sense of shared struggle they enjoy.
And as I said elsewhere, I really don’t think meta game options are the only way to do difficulty.
If they can’t have fun without gatekeeping, then that is on them.
Lol, I appreciate the edit. Thanks for making it immediately clear that I shouldn’t waste my time reading the rest.
Then why comment on any of my comments? Yeesh.
Nobody is putting a gun to your head and forcing you to play every game. Not every game has to be for everybody, and that’s ok. The exact same criticism can be made the other way around, that no game should be too easy because boredom is bad. And it’s exactly as stupid an argument in either direction.
Nobody would be putting a gun to your head and forcing you to play on an easier difficulty either
No but apparently some people are dying to put a gun to every game dev’s head on the planet to force them to create a Very Very Easy Mode.
Of course not. I do believe that gatekeeping gaming is a fucking stupid thing to do though. Not every game HAS to be for everyone, and that’s not even what I’m saying so bad argument to begin with.
What I AM saying though, is more people can play the same games and… GASP… actually be able to talk to their more hardcore friends about the game that their friend recommended! Man! What an idea!
There is nothing preventing YOU from playing on the highest, most hardcore gamer difficulty, so again, your point is moot.
My point is preventing people who aren’t able to function on the same level as a “normal” human from playing one of the biggest franchises in gaming history is stupid and there is nothing and no reason whatsoever to exempt them from being able to enjoy the games other than this stupid ass arbitrary gatekeeping bullshit a lot of so called gamers like to pull out.
You can still sit there and run around with no armor and do a no hit run. There is literally nothing stopping you from that… unless… you want to play on an easier difficulty and don’t want to admit it…?
The journey is often as important to the experience. It would be like your friend telling you about a great hike but then driving to the top just to talk about the view.
And if someone can’t make that journey because of things they have no control over, fuck them right? You people are truly disgusting. Yikes.
Yeah. The human experience is not, cannot be, and should not be homogeneous.
Find some humanity, buddy. It’ll do you better than this.
You should read “Harrison Bergeron”.
If that’s where you got the silly idea that life can’t be made easier for others when we can, I’m good.
Not everyone gets to make the same journey. You live in a fantasy world.
God, I wish I lived in a fantasy world. But, unfortunately, I have to exist alongside people who can’t think of anyone other than themselves. Like… most of the commenters here who kept trying to bring up what they believe to be valid points, but really just paint themselves as assholes who don’t want people to be able to enjoy their hardcore gamer games. Oh well. There plenty of people like you out there.
“People disagree with me and that makes them unfeeling sociopaths.”
Wrong again. Read what I am saying. I can’t do it for you. I believe in you though.
Not all games are for everyone. A game does not have to cater to all audiences. That’s ok.
That’s such a lame ass rebuke. It can be done, has been done, and will continue to be done by developers who actually care about the medium and want more people to play their games. Did we not fucking invent braille so blind people can read???