It baggers my belief how many of you are actively advocating to destroy Europe’s largest and most important economy in favour of Chinese and US businesses, who ABSOLUTELY WILL polute to its fullest potential to ensure it can provide YOU with the products and services you want at the lowest possible price. It will even subsidize and incentive pollution to ensure low pricing.
This way European businesses will die out with EU’s green policies as it cannot compete. Once that happens the old American and Chinese models come to life; seizing that duopoly position and squeeze you while it is benefiting and polluting. You will have absolute no control over it then. With which you seem to have absolutely no problem apparently.
It is so short sited in this chat I want to believe these are not European nationals…
Keep buying your Chinese and American crap and promote pollution in action, but in words you absolutely will deviate from it.
The most rediculous part is the narrative that it’s green policy that makes everything more expensive in the first place.
Those idiots promised lower energy prices and exactly everybody with more than 2 working brain cells knew that their plans are bullshit and the best way to actually lower energy prices is to stop their stupid fight against renewables and storage.
And now -totally unsurprisingly- they instead work hard on making energy more expensive by planning massive capacities of expensive fossil fuels, paid by tax money. And start subsidizing industry’s energy use with more tax money. All while blocking permits for large scale energy storage already requested… that are on a scale to cover the needs for the next decade easily and would cost exactly no tax money as it’s 100% private investments. And while claiming that more renewables would require too high investements into the grid (actually just a fraction of the insane amount they plan to spend on gas power plants instead).
If you want to create a car battery, you need to extract critical minerals from the ground, then refine them and produce a battery. European countries hold deposits of these minerals; we won’t extract them, nor refine them, because mining these minerals and refining them is considered to be pollutive. Guess what, in China, Indonesia, and elsewhere this is probably even more pollutive given they simply won’t give a flying fuck how they extract and refine because it needs to be low cost. European consumer happily buy the batteries though - no questions asked because the low price is amazing, right? This is just one example where we destroy our own economy and economic position just so we can sit a moral high ground and think we have been so green.
We are so focused on shooting ourselves in the foot, legs and the critical organs, all so we can remain on the moral high ground.
Our children are so fucked. To fill the gaps of the failing policy, then loosing economic power, we will start borrowing vast amounts of debt on country level to keep the economy running. After 10-15 years the debt levels will be astronomical and we are economically finished. Hope you enjoy the green policy while it lasts.
To be transparant; myself I am investing heavily in sustainable elements. House energy neutral, driving electric car which is partially charged with solar. All from European products as far as possible (meaning car battery is most likely not European even though the car is). I am just noticing alotof people scream they want to go green and force others to do it, not putting their money where their mouth is. Makes me go nuts. Even if you tone down the green policy; forcing regulation and costs on companies, we should just let the economy do its job. Not with its hands tied to mountains of regulation. Once they are competitive again I am sure we have room to invest in sustainable energy. Instead of rules first. This does not make any sense economically
We are so focused on shooting ourselves in the foot, legs and the critical organs, all so we can remain on the moral high ground.
Congratulations. You have eaten up the whole capitalist propaganda in one big gulp.
No, people are not doing it because some imaginary moral high ground. Guess what… there is an actual market for ethically sourced goods, one for organical produce and there is a constant demand for domestic high quality.
But that’s not what is politically supported because we need to make the insanely rich even richer in the name of holy capitalism. And that means subsidising the cheapest stuff with the lowest quality people will still accept to maximise profits of a few people. That means outsourcing production to China by heavily subsidising transport costs. That means selling off technology to China because its success is threatning other sector’s profits at home. It is not about the morals, ffs it’s not even about the actual costs. It is simply about getting the lowest cost for the people selling you shit here to increase their profits, all while socialising the (not even well) hidden extra costs involved.
The talk about morals and ethics is a lie you get fed to look away from actual facts.
Germany basically developed modern mass produced solar tech. A German company is market leader in wind power (#3 from Denmark, #5 Spain btw…). If you look up leading battery researchers or institutions involved you will not find a lot of Chinese names but European and US ones. We develop that stuff … and then we give the tech away to get produced elsewhere.
If you think this happens for some moral reasons you are just totally lost.
It happens because new tech threatens estabished businesses that then bribe politicians (see the destruction of 100k+ jobs in solar in Germany to save ~10k workers in coal for example) or because outsourcing opens up possibilities to offload costs to the population (like the mentioned rediculously subsidised transport costs supporting all that cheap crap Chinese mail-order business).
Or to keep with your analogy: We are not “shooting ourselves in the foot, legs and the critical organs”. A few people are doing this to us because they can then profit from be the faster ones.
It baggers my belief how many of you are actively advocating to destroy Europe’s largest and most important economy in favour of Chinese and US businesses, who ABSOLUTELY WILL polute to its fullest potential to ensure it can provide YOU with the products and services you want at the lowest possible price. It will even subsidize and incentive pollution to ensure low pricing.
This way European businesses will die out with EU’s green policies as it cannot compete. Once that happens the old American and Chinese models come to life; seizing that duopoly position and squeeze you while it is benefiting and polluting. You will have absolute no control over it then. With which you seem to have absolutely no problem apparently.
It is so short sited in this chat I want to believe these are not European nationals…
Keep buying your Chinese and American crap and promote pollution in action, but in words you absolutely will deviate from it.
The most rediculous part is the narrative that it’s green policy that makes everything more expensive in the first place.
Those idiots promised lower energy prices and exactly everybody with more than 2 working brain cells knew that their plans are bullshit and the best way to actually lower energy prices is to stop their stupid fight against renewables and storage.
And now -totally unsurprisingly- they instead work hard on making energy more expensive by planning massive capacities of expensive fossil fuels, paid by tax money. And start subsidizing industry’s energy use with more tax money. All while blocking permits for large scale energy storage already requested… that are on a scale to cover the needs for the next decade easily and would cost exactly no tax money as it’s 100% private investments. And while claiming that more renewables would require too high investements into the grid (actually just a fraction of the insane amount they plan to spend on gas power plants instead).
If you want to create a car battery, you need to extract critical minerals from the ground, then refine them and produce a battery. European countries hold deposits of these minerals; we won’t extract them, nor refine them, because mining these minerals and refining them is considered to be pollutive. Guess what, in China, Indonesia, and elsewhere this is probably even more pollutive given they simply won’t give a flying fuck how they extract and refine because it needs to be low cost. European consumer happily buy the batteries though - no questions asked because the low price is amazing, right? This is just one example where we destroy our own economy and economic position just so we can sit a moral high ground and think we have been so green.
We are so focused on shooting ourselves in the foot, legs and the critical organs, all so we can remain on the moral high ground.
Our children are so fucked. To fill the gaps of the failing policy, then loosing economic power, we will start borrowing vast amounts of debt on country level to keep the economy running. After 10-15 years the debt levels will be astronomical and we are economically finished. Hope you enjoy the green policy while it lasts.
To be transparant; myself I am investing heavily in sustainable elements. House energy neutral, driving electric car which is partially charged with solar. All from European products as far as possible (meaning car battery is most likely not European even though the car is). I am just noticing alotof people scream they want to go green and force others to do it, not putting their money where their mouth is. Makes me go nuts. Even if you tone down the green policy; forcing regulation and costs on companies, we should just let the economy do its job. Not with its hands tied to mountains of regulation. Once they are competitive again I am sure we have room to invest in sustainable energy. Instead of rules first. This does not make any sense economically
Congratulations. You have eaten up the whole capitalist propaganda in one big gulp.
No, people are not doing it because some imaginary moral high ground. Guess what… there is an actual market for ethically sourced goods, one for organical produce and there is a constant demand for domestic high quality.
But that’s not what is politically supported because we need to make the insanely rich even richer in the name of holy capitalism. And that means subsidising the cheapest stuff with the lowest quality people will still accept to maximise profits of a few people. That means outsourcing production to China by heavily subsidising transport costs. That means selling off technology to China because its success is threatning other sector’s profits at home. It is not about the morals, ffs it’s not even about the actual costs. It is simply about getting the lowest cost for the people selling you shit here to increase their profits, all while socialising the (not even well) hidden extra costs involved.
The talk about morals and ethics is a lie you get fed to look away from actual facts.
Germany basically developed modern mass produced solar tech. A German company is market leader in wind power (#3 from Denmark, #5 Spain btw…). If you look up leading battery researchers or institutions involved you will not find a lot of Chinese names but European and US ones. We develop that stuff … and then we give the tech away to get produced elsewhere.
If you think this happens for some moral reasons you are just totally lost.
It happens because new tech threatens estabished businesses that then bribe politicians (see the destruction of 100k+ jobs in solar in Germany to save ~10k workers in coal for example) or because outsourcing opens up possibilities to offload costs to the population (like the mentioned rediculously subsidised transport costs supporting all that cheap crap Chinese mail-order business).
Or to keep with your analogy: We are not “shooting ourselves in the foot, legs and the critical organs”. A few people are doing this to us because they can then profit from be the faster ones.