Because Windows 11 shouldn’t have been made in the first place, I can’t find one reason why they couldn’t just kept updating 10.
Beside greed, forcing people to use fully integrated AI. Cuz they know damn well that 90% of us will disable that shit like we did One Drive.
I don’t even think it’s greed at this point. As far as I know, no one is making money on AI. Even NVIDIA is cooking the books by investing in AI companies and just making them use the invested money to buy graphics cards. They report those as sales but are they really sales if they gave them the money in the first place?
I think the real reason Microsoft is shoving AI down everyone’s throats is because they went all-in on AI and they’re hoping to keep the bubble going for now and somehow it will work out in the end. It’s literally a fake it until you make it strategy with zero guarantee of making it.
A lot of it I think is just driven by managers with AI FOMO. They really don’t know what AI is supposed to do but they’re hoping users will figure it out.
When you have a solution in search of a problem, and lots of money to push that solution. They assume their customers will invent the use cases and workflows that might make it valuable,
this is the real reason, much like whats google is doing with it on thier devices.
Pretty good for live transcription, are blind or partially blind ppl using it? Translation I guess. Better recognition. Idk how useful the language models specifically are, ai everywhere else is useful. Like in gene sequencing and making mediciine. Ai can like find diffrerent combinations that make the same result, idr why thats good, just that itd take humans many many years to simulate what they can have ai run through.
seems like a very small population, that may or may not benefit from it. no justification other than shove down everyones throat to stave off the bubble.
Funny thing is I still don’t know why they needed a new version of Windows for that, I mean 10 was already bloat they could have just shoved AI into it, as in the TPM 2.0 they could have just made a new 25H(whatever the fuck) version where you’d need to enable that on the motherboard.
I’m guessing to capture the consumers that just upgrade without thinking. Like they’ll 100% put this shit in next years iphone and people won’t even blink.
It’s because Apple moved on from X. They skipped 9 just because they didn’t want to be behind Apple.
Wasn’t the reason for skipping 9 to not break programs assuming “Windows 9” meant 95 / 98?
It sounds like when Microsoft named their second console “360” because they wouldn’t want to be behind Sony. But somehow I’m not buying that
One good reason: so all of the fucking half ass obnoxious shit that have put into 11 didn’t taint 10.
10 was obnoxious enough. 11 dialed it up to 11.
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I n ever understood why they couldn’t make TPM 2.0 work on W10
Win10 already supports TPM 2.0, it just becomes mandatory in 11.
And no, TPM doesn’t spy on you.
This article is trash, it mentions existing windows 10 features in windows 11 like it’s a groundbreaking new technology.
Virtual desktops and clipboard manager? Cmon man we’ve been having that for years now
having that for years now
since abaout the late 90’s to early 00’s. KDE 1 released with virtual desktops, and from what I can tell, Klipper either released with it, or a few years later
fvwm, 1993. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FVWM
Blows my mind seeing people look on windows 10 as some kind of last bastion, apparently not realizing that was Windows 7 at best.
10 is the one where they fucked up the UX beyond repair, made everything slow and added insane amounts of spying. If you willingly switched to 10 then don’t pretend like 11 is a bridge too far now.
I still can’t grasp that Microsoft, a $3.6 trillion company, developed a new settings interface but failed to migrate all settings to it, forcing users to use both. Even I know that’s day one UX shite and I’m quite stupid.
What’s hilarious is that this started with Win10 so its been an issue for over a decade now and two major revisions at least (possibly started on Win8).
It did start on win8
In their defense, we all try hard to forget that iteration.
I’d actually say it was 8.1, but the problem with 8.1 is that it died before people could discover how good it is combined with classical start menu. It was basically a fleshed out, faster, more stable Windows 7 with updated tech like newer directx and cached boot (aka. Fastboot). Almost non-existing market share, but I liked it far better than 7, 10 and 11 (only gave it 1 week). I installed a tweaked 8.1 version on all my friends/family’s PCs and never heard a single complaint, shit was awesome.
I didn’t willingly switch to 10, though, that was my only choice
It took me ages today to work out how to map a drive letter because they’ve changed where the menu button is. You used to be able to do it from the taskbar at the top, but now it’s hidden in a right click menu in a different part of the file browser to where it used to be. I don’t understand the point of changes like that, by all means add more options but keep the old ones around for consistency.
Managing printers in 11 is the worst. The sad part is that the old-style devices and printers menu is still in the OS, you just have to dig for it a bit, and it works 1000x better.
the old-style devices and printers menu is still in the OS, you just have to dig for it a bit, and it works 1000x better.
For the last 13 years this has been the most infuriating part of the incomplete control panel migration. I find myself struggling to use the new settings, and having to then resort to digging for the old ones that actually have the option I need.
Win 11 finally pushed me over the edge with ads and spying. But I still have to deal with Windows at work.
net use still works
10 is the one where they fucked up the UX beyond repair
Was it? I gave up on 8 because of the UI, downgraded back to 7 and that was my last Windows machine. Was 10 worse?
8 was such a disaster that people don’t really consider it a real version of windows. 10 was actually better than 8 but that’s not saying much
People said they will never upgrade from 7 to 10, and now they are saying they will never upgrade from 10 to 11
^ This, I had to be dragged kicking and screaming from 7 to 10, and now looking forward to another 3 years of Win10 security updates, while fervently praying that Adobe and my online games add Linux support during that time >_>
Will it make you even more frustrated to learn Steam has a Linux-native build of Substance Painter, but Adobe still won’t support it themselves?
It did :P
Just ditch those games.not worth it
Ah yes the classic purist arguement.
If the applications I want to use don’t support Linux then apparently that’s their problem. I wish I didn’t have to live in the real world, but unfortunately I can’t pay my mortgage in moral righteousness. If I can’t use the programs I need to use my job, because I’ve decided to switch to an operating system that they don’t support, I’m the one that’s going to suffer.
So no you can’t just ditch applications that don’t have Linux support.
In the real world you have to dual boot and that’s a pain in the arse because it means Microsoft are still going to be getting some money from me.
The fuck sort of dipshit argument is this for video games…?
He was saying ditch video games man… VIDEO GAMES.
Yeah, some people get really defensive when you suggest they can get all the things they are asking for, and all they have to do is stop giving money to user-hostile developers. And saying kernel-level anti-cheat is hostile to the user is a massive understatement. Why would you defend Saudi Arabia having kernel-level access to your computer just to play a game? (It’s crazy that that statement isn’t even a joke in the context of EA.)
I understand if someone decides not to take the suggestion, but it is still a reasonable suggestion to make.
I can’t switch to purely Linux because I need windows in order to be able to do my job. The fact I also play games on the computer is irrelevant.
I don’t understand what you’re not understanding.
It’s a catch 22. If you need applications to make money sure. But games. Come on.
I get a PC from my job, it has windows and that’s their choice.
Maybe not worth it for you, but I’m enjoying them too much to ditch them 🤷
The difference is that Windows 11 is locked behind behind hardware requirements. A lot of people simply can’t upgrade.
and now they are saying they will never upgrade from 10 to 11
The stats show people are committing this time. English speakers are jumping ship at historically unprecedented rates. Steam stats
I was on Windows 7 until April of 2021, when I was taking a certification exam remotely, and didn’t find out that the software they used for it didn’t work on 7 until after I had paid the registration fee. Windows 10 was useable enough, but I never thought it was preferable over 7. Anyway, I’m on Bazzite now.
Couldn’t imagine why lmao
It’s almost like “you have to buy a new laptop to install it and help train our AI on your private documents” is somehow not convincing enough. Maybe if they also removed local accounts and forced you to have an online MS account? Nah scratch that, it would be stupid
Heh, you know it’s bad when the OEMs are throwing shade.
Because 8 was garbage and people got rid of it as soon as possible. 10 was actually good, and 11 was barely a change functionally until they started messing with the ads push, and now they’re shoving LLM bullshit in to justify their exorbitant expenditures on the half functional tech.
Yep. I Kept 7 for as long as possible but had to upgrade so 10 was next. I wouldn’t move to 11 if support continued for 10.
. I wouldn’t move to 11 if support continued for 10.
Which is exactly the reason they’re ending support.
If you don’t have a reason to stay, Linux is definitely worth a shot. I moved from 10 to Bazzite in my rig earlier in the year, and it’s been pretty solid.
I have bazzite Linux as dual boot. Few usecases stop me from moving fully over. Nvidia drivers and VR support. And Remote Desktop doesn’t work the way I want it to.
Also for some reason my ryzen system stopped seeing my linux sata drive in bios so can’t boot anymore.
Interesting. I ditched team green years ago and have been running rock solid since. My Nvidia GPU was always the reason I went back to windows. Sorry to hear your ryzen rig stopped, have you looked for a bios update? Might be something simple like that (assuming your disk didn’t shit the bed).
Can’t say I’ve had any rdp issues on Bazzite, what’s it doing?
I can see the disk in windows. It just doesn’t show up in the bios. I’ve been recommended to do a fully CMOS reset by pulling out battery but don’t really have time. It disappeared after a BIOS update :)
As for RDP. I regularly RDP to my windows machine and it auto changes resolution. And then I can log in on the PC itself and it returns to the monitor resolution. So I keep the same session but view it from multiple places.
I can’t get the same on Linux. Either I get my current session which doesn’t resize (stuck at connected monitor resolution). Or it creates a new resizable session which I don’t want because I want to continue what I was doing.
I’ve been recommended to do a fully CMOS reset by pulling out battery but don’t really have time. It disappeared after a BIOS update :)
Did you load the default BIOS settings after that? If not, that might be easier than removing the battery.
And if you did, the default settings could have enabled the CSM, or changed other settings like fast boot that might make the drive not show up.
Tried every reset option. I set to RAID mode and I saw hard disk in bios but boot failed at bazzite load screen.
That is definitely odd behavior. Multiple sessions is a server side setting, so your Linux system shouldn’t be able to do that without windows being ok with it. As for the resolution issue, it might be a config issue in your client. Give another client a shot, or see if there’s a way to configure the client to use smart sizing. I can’t recall which app I use on my system, but I can’t say I’ve ever had an issue with scaling between connected and remote connected sessions.
Have you checked your BIOS if CSM is enabled (gets disabled when enabling secure boot iirc)? If your Linux drive has an old partitioning scheme it needs that to show up during boot I think.
I’ll try it. But I don’t see the drive detected in the BIOS so thought it might be more than that.
Also bazzite should have secure boot.
I’ll let you know!
You probably know this, but for others who might not: MS is now allowing some/many/all (???) people to extend the security updates for Win10 for another year free of charge. You have to go into the Windows update area and click a button to accept. At least in the USA, this seems to be a somewhat newly available option, as it was there the last time someone asked me to look at their laptop to see if I could upgrade it to Win11.
I had already upgraded when I saw this. But it’s only another year, if it was 2-3 years I’d actually take the hit and roll back. I’d actually pay for it! Although next year I might move totally over to Linux. Will see.
Is Linux good? I’m thinking of changing over one of my old alienwear laptops to Linux cause it’s just gotten so slow on Windows
Well yes it can be. If you have a Nvidia GPU it wouldn’t be the best because they sometimes have driver issues (that’s Nvidia with closed shitty drivers for linux). I will probably run fine anyways. I would recommend Bazzite if you don’t want to tinker with linux and just use it. CachyOS if you want a snappy experience. Gaming wise they don’t have any difference and with Bazzite you can’t fuck anything up. Edit: If you have an AMD GPU you should just change to linux no question.
Thanks for that, yeah unfortunately it is nvidia but i might give those two a run anyway at the end of the day i can always re install windows if need be.
Yea I wouldn’t be too concerned with trying just because you have an Nvidia GPU, I’ve been running it for years and haven’t had any show stoppers. Now is probably the best time to give it a go.
“Slower” implies you’re projecting the same end results. Do they think the missing numbers are just not using a computer at all? In the digital age? By far your largest numbers of actual Win11 migrators are companies whose tech policy is the CYA “update everything in case we get hacked”.
The common folk are not going to buy a new computer just to get a slower Windows installation. The people who migrate from Windows 10/7 holdouts are going to be migrating to Linux.
Literally me biding my time on W10 for Autodesk to pull their head out their ass and make AutoCAD for Linux.
Honestly, just being less hostile to Linux and not purposefully pushing out updates that break it under wine/proton would be great…
That would be decades of legacy. I mean, with people paid to survive rewriting that legacy, should happen - if and when Linux is a mainstream platform. EDIT: … for companies’ workstations.
10 had at least SOME good in it, at first i didnt want to move on from 7 but when i finally did it was okay. Everything i have heard about 11 is awful, and i wasnt very pleased with it myself either when i tried it at work, though i was able to mostly ignore it since it was just my work pc.
And now after switching to mint, idea of using 11 is preposterous.
Had to “upgrade” my work laptop to 11 for security support. Nothing about it is better. Almost everything is slower, and many common operations take more steps to complete on 11 vs 10.
Absolute fuckin’ garbage.
I learned to tolerate 10 for my limited uses. Like you, my Windows PC jumped from 7 to 10. When 11 rolled around, the centered start menu was the first thing I noticed and it was an instant wtf moment.
Microsoft needs to be sued to allow for a Linux desktop Excel. Once that happens they would lose like half their market share to Linux.
LibreOffice is good. While people don’t like learning new things, I found it does everything I could want.
I actually switched years ago because I didn’t want to pay for MS Office.
Sure its fine at home. But try getting an entire office to learn new spreadsheet software. They can barely handle when a new version of Excel is released.
i just dont understand hiring requirements. They make posts that require you to be able to do anything and everything, expect everyone still to apply and hire people that barely are able to do the job and can’t handle learning anything new, likely not even due to some inherent weakness in the head but just attitude. And I bet every one of them praises their skills on learning new stuff on the interview. And then they show the door to anyone who dares not to be really good at lying through their teeth at the interview.
I know what you’re talking about. As someone who had to hire a lot of people it was infuriating that we only got the candidates HR approved.
I so wish that we could hire 5 people for 2 weeks and then retain 1 or 2 of them. You don’t learn anything about candidates until you give them your first assignment. I would have jumped at that as an applicant, but maybe just because I was unemployed for a while during the 08 super recession.
Same here. There is a learning curve because, while it does all the same things, sometimes it happens in a slightly different way and the UX is different.
Successfully booted up Linux mint today, stayed on windows for uni (thinking I might need one of those Microsoft apps). Missed Linux and now back :)
I really don’t see what more Windows has to offer than Linux other some shitty software that cannot be run on Linux (Looks at newer Office and Adobe). In that case I can just boot up a VM with black-flag Windows Pro on it.
I really don’t see what more Windows has to offer than Linux
Stability, updates management, built-in features (like window tiling), etc.
Source: using Linux exclusively for almost a year now.
Wait… Either I have bad grammar or you misinterpreted lol. I meant “Linux has more to offer than Windows”
No. I said that there’s a bunch of things (e.g. stability, updates management, features (like window tiling), etc.) that Windows has and Linux does not.
There’s A LOT Linux does great. There’s also a lot Windows does great that Linux massively fails at.
Even some silly things like multi-screen support or saving windows positions between reboots… Lots of small things.
Linux has all of this out of the box (don’t know about windows positions after reboot, I have never tried that even on Windows). What distro and DE are you using? I am using Arch with KDE Plasma and it has been pretty much flawless and stable for me.
Using Bazzite with KDE Desktop and can confirm that it keeps multi-window positions after reboot.
I remember that it used to work on my Garuda (Arch-based), but then one day it just went away and never came back. Considering issues like this it seems like it might be something cobbled-together by various distros rather than a default functionality of Wayland or KDE.
Especially when you’re on Arch with KDE, you don’t have:
- good update management
- window tiling
- saving window positions
I know because I’m on Arch with KDE.
By “good update management” I mean what MS does - all updates are pushed once a month, on Patch Tuesday (second Tuesday of the month). You can put it in your calendar and plan for a necessary reboot.
I know Arch is a rolling release so it doesn’t have that on purpose, but it’s not much better with Ubuntu - I was getting updates every couple of days, once a week at best.
Window tiling doesn’t exist “out of the box”, you need third party software (which, apparently still doesn’t give you what Windows has out of the box) or a switch from KDE to COSMIC, which still doesn’t give you the freedom of choice that Windows has (it’s either “everything is tiled” or “nothing is tiled”).
Saving window positions (on Wayland) is the most confusing one, because it seems like the one that’d be the easiest to implement, but KDE devs just flat out refuse to do it. I hear that it works on X11.
Multi-monitor support is piss poor. If I spread my windows across multiple monitors and then turn one monitor off, those windows are no longer accessible. SDDM displays the same interface on each monitor, and each is a separate instance of SDDM - meaning, you can type in your password on monitor 2, and if you press “OK” on monitor 1, it will fail, because the password field is empty. It’s just silly design. On Windows, if you disconnect an extra screen, all the content gets dropped on the main screen. Since Windows 11, if you then re-connect the screen, all windows will pop back into their places before the disconnect happened.
You might have configured something that broke it because there ain’t no way what you are saying is not supported on Linux.
I know Arch is a rolling release so it doesn’t have that on purpose, but it’s not much better with Ubuntu - I was getting updates every couple of days, once a week at best.
You don’t have to update if you don’t want to and you can schedule your updates as well with a bash script (although I prefer to do it manually once a week). I have a Windows VM used for MS office and Adobe that hasn’t been updated for months.
Window tiling doesn’t exist “out of the box”, you need third party software
It is out of the box. Meta + Arrow Keys and/OR Meta + PgUp. I use it all the time lol since KDE Plasma 5 and Gnome whatever version it was 3 years ago.
)Saving window positions (on Wayland) is the most confusing one
Confirmed works by FarrellPerks@feddit.uk in above comments. Although I never tested or cared for it.
SDDM displays the same interface on each monitor, and each is a separate instance of SDDM
I don’t know about desktop towers, for laptop it is always only one instance — my laptop display, monitor is dark before I hit enter. And for the normal KDE lockscreen, it does give it on both the screens but I can enter my password in any one of them and logon.
if you disconnect an extra screen, all the content gets dropped on the main screen. Since Windows 11, if you then re-connect the screen, all windows will pop back into their places before the disconnect happened.
same happens on KDE Plasma.
It is out of the box. Meta + Arrow Keys and/OR Meta + PgUp.
Ah, OK, nice! I didn’t see it as it’s not available via mouse, but found all those threads saying it doesn’t exist. Good to know!
Confirmed works by FarrellPerks@feddit.uk in above comments
Doesn’t work on Garuda (Arch-based) with KDE.
Or rather: it used to work, but then just stopped.
I don’t know about desktop towers, for laptop it is always only one instance — my laptop display, monitor is dark before I hit enter
Interesting! On my laptop I also had two instances of SDDM.
same happens on KDE Plasma.
Not where I’m sitting. Tested via cat accidentally turning a monitor off. The browser window just stayed on that screen - the process was there, but the application was not available.
Stability? Update management? Window tiling? What? Linux does have all of these things. In fact Linux is way more stable than Windows, has better update management. Mind you, it does depend on the distro and the amount of stability you want, but I have been running Debian servers for years and I hardly run into problems.
The only thing windows offers over Linux is gaming and a better UI. Even both of those are dwindling away. I hate the new windows 11 UI and most games work on Linux unless you require a rootkit for some anti cheat software.
Stability? Update management? Window tiling? What? Linux does have all of these things.
No.
In fact Linux is way more stable than Windows
I install Windows and forget about it. I install Linux and have to do all this, and then it still might do this or this.
Mind you, it does depend on the distro
Agreed.
and the amount of stability you want
I want all the stability.
but I have been running Debian servers for years and I hardly run into problems.
Not talking about servers.
But even then - at my last job we finally killed off a Windows Server that had an uptime of over 1000 days, just chugging along like a little trooper. At my previous-previous job I was responsible for the WinServer updates, every single one of them was getting monthly updates and reboots, didn’t have a single issue in 7 years. It was just shy of 100 servers.
The only thing windows offers over Linux is gaming and a better UI. Even both of those are dwindling away. I hate the new windows 11 UI and most games work on Linux unless you require a rootkit for some anti cheat software.
Agreed. I have Garuda Linux installed on my gaming PC and only had minor issues with three titles. It’s surprisingly frictionless.
The most frustrating part of running Linux for me is the experience can vary so much for each person, slight hardware differences can cause odd bugs that other people don’t have, and solving them can be really time consuming because a fix that works for one distro or DE may not work on another.
I’m really happy that Bazzite seems to be gaining so much popularity as an actual windows replacement, because it makes it a lot easier to find fixes for problems if there’s a huge community using the exact same distro.
I couldn’t be happier, ditching Windows for Linux.
Considering all of the comments saying that a big part of this is people not wanting to buy new computers and choosing linux because it will run on their old machine, I’d like to add insult to injury and say I built a new PC before Oct and windows was never even a consideration.
And despite it being my first Linux install I planned to play games on, everything went smoothly and I’d even say the “setting up the PC to my preference instead of the defaults” step was better because there wasn’t a “figure out how to disable the shit ms really wants you to run for them” substep, or a “figure out what new shit ms added that I’ll want to disable” discovery mode that, with win 10, lasted most of the time I was using it and included “figure out if a recent update reset settings to annoying defaults”.
I bet this is why people are so vocal about switching to linux whenever there’s another complaint about ms. It went way better than expected, like I was about to do something that would cause ongoing pain and frustration to get away from something even worse, but there’s been nothing at all that has made me miss windows.
Yeah. I built my PC two years back and Linux was the main idea for it. I’d used Linux on and off since 2007, and it’s honestly been fine this entire time, with WINE and such only improving over time. I remember how baffled I was back in 2007 when I didn’t have to install any drivers myself, everything just worked out of the box, even fucking printers.
This is the time of Windows Vista, where nothing worked.
Yeah, I’ve got a logitech mouse but didn’t want logitech’s software on my machine, so I just used the mouse by plugging it in. Which worked, but I had no way of knowing the battery level until the mouse itself started blinking low power.
When I installed fedora, I was confused a bit because it had a system tray icon saying the battery was charging. I was thinking it thought it was a laptop until I realize it had just picked up the battery information from my mouse. A feature I had written off under windows just worked without me even considering it or needing to install software that was partly about using my hardware and partially about advertising more ways to get my money.
For a Logitech mouse on Linux I use Solaar. Pretty much why I go with Logitech mice now. Solaar works well for me
