I’m an advocate for privacy, and anti-censorship(not that I’m a political person, but I personally think that one entity controlling everything could make somewhat of a rat box society), I’m confident that the fediverse platforms would one day be large enough to compete with popular sites like Twitter, Reddit, Youtube, etc. (given enough time for the website design/attractiveness, and user-friendliness, features, etc. to mature. )

But I feel like we won’t be achieving that reality anytime soon. at least in my speculations. if you look at the statistics, mastodon is 100x smaller than twitter, and also the fediverse gained almost 25% more users (which is just under a million) which is great but not enough. some viral impact, or a bigger influence is needed to get that number up.

TL;DR, the question; Is there some good ideas, marketing ideas, or anything conventional or non-conventional, that could help us gain more users?

Open to anything, as long as It’s possible to do, look outside the box, creative answers are very welcome.

some of the ideas so far;

  • [Dev Project] a Fediverse Game Store, with payment features, etc.

  • [Dev Project] Fediverse Forums Platform

  • [Dev project] making a fediverse search engine

  • [Dev project] ActivityPub Compliant Wordpress (as the First CMS target)

  • [bot] a meme bot for giving user points for reposting fediverse memes.

  • [fediverse feature request] Option to make watermarked image to crosspost.

  • [Community] Fediverse Youtube channel for fediverse related content. (Creator Awards, News, Podcast, and shoutouts to fediverse creators)

  • [Community] our own meme boards (is there something we can use that’s similar to 4chan?)

  • [Community] A page for lists of things that people can do to promote the fediverse

  • [Community] A page for a detailed-comparison of Fediverse platforms and Corporate platforms, to serve as a guide to the developers of Fediverse. more info

  • [Microblogging] user experience related Improvements, etc. see thread

Tags; [Community] [Dev Project] [Bot] [feature request] …

edit: I’m going to start a community organization based on this… if you have ideas for the name of our community, please post it here; https://lemmy.ml/post/56996

Thank you all for your input, I’ll try to summarize what we just discussed later, also thank you for participating in this discussion, I’ll have some of the ideas put into motion in the near future.

please continue posting your ideas here if you have some, maybe something useful can come up for the community to use

  • @lemmy.ml
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    4 years ago

    At the end of the day, you can’t solve socioeconomic and political problems with an app. The monopolization of social media is an inherently political problem, and ultimately the only solutions are political in nature. Centralized platforms like Facebook, Reddit, Twitter, and YouTube wield immense power over the way we communicate, and that power is not something that will be surrendered willingly. One might hope that market forces would spur competition, but the past couple decades of tech industry history has only indicated a tendency towards consolidation. Every “promising” upstart company like YouTube, WhatsApp, Twitch, GitHub etc. ultimately succumbs to the Google/Facebook/Microsoft/Amazon blob.

    Fediverse platforms like Lemmy, Mastodon, Peertube, Matrix, etc. are great technology. They are the future of the Internet - or at least, they deserve to be. The problem is, the technical details of federation and the implications of software licensing tend to get lost on the vast majority of people who aren’t either software engineers or activists. Most people don’t seem to care about privacy as long as they can get their memes and talk to grandma. As a pathological Free Software nerd myself, I’d talk to friends and family about how awful Facebook is for years and they’d literally reply “if you’ve got nothing to hide, you’ve got nothing to fear.”

    I’ve been praying for a long time for decentralized, Free Software social media to take off. I remember the snazzy videos and Kickstarter campaign that launched the Diaspora network ten years ago. I was crushed when it made virtually no inroads into the Facebook monopoly.

    The trend as it appears to me is that alternative social media platforms tend to grow the quickest when the monopoly platforms produce exile communities. Mastodon grew to millions of users out of dissatisfaction about the way Twitter was being operated (and then Gab is another story). Platforms like Raddle, Voat, Tildes, Lemmy, Hexbear, and TD.win (ugh) have grown either due to the fact that they were expelled from Reddit, or were so sick of the direction Reddit was heading in they decided to strike it out on their own.

    At the end of the day, software is just a tool. Federated social networking is among the most promising tools in the box because federation appears to be the only plausible mechanism to overcoming the network effect, but it is still just a tool. The adoption of federated social networking platforms will be driven primarily by social forces, and I think the best way for us to promote the use of federated social media is to facilitate this process whenever push comes to shove.

    • Gwynne@lemmy.mlOP
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      4 years ago

      I get all of what you said, but, I don’t think we should be so pessimistic about it. if things are depressing, instead of accepting it, you should keep moving forward, and let it be the drive to change what shitty reality is given to people like us.

      All it needs is a movement, or a driving force of some passionate people. or even, it would start with just one person, a madman who wants to lead others to an objective that is seemingly close to impossible. It could even be you, I believe anyone with a working brain, even if he’s more dumb than anyone in this world, could be the one who solves the world’s most complicated problem.

      Moreover, there is a few ideas up here that no one on earth has attempted, see the problem? we have too much people not doing anything despite complaining about their problems. less then 1% of us actually make a change.

      Well, to make it seem less impossible to some people. these corporate companies are ran by humans like you and me, they have weaknesses and flaws. if even they can do it then why shouldn’t we?

      one of my favorite quotes;

      “Real change is difficult at the beginning. Without the familiar to rely upon, you may not in as much command as you had once been. When things are not going your way, you will start doubting yourself. Stay positive, keep the faith, and keep moving forward – your breakthrough may be just around the corner.”

      ― Roy T. Bennett

      I suggest that we all keep our heads up, and keep trying, until we get there.

  • Metawish@lemmy.ml
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    4 years ago

    I think a major hurdle is that those centralized services have the EASIEST sign up process and the EASIEST find things to follow so that the feed isnt dead or filled with junk. Most processes use phone numbers to find IRL friends, and gather some of the biggest names in various catagories to toss at someone and say “yo, here’s some shit to follow”.

    Can this hurdle be overcome? I think so, as long as there is a committed and active group of people. First, have multiple people host “first-stop” servers for newcomers. This helps to promote the federated method while also making it easy to join without thinking deeply about it. I know there already is a list of servers to join, but when someone is just starting off, it should automatically populate so they don’t even see it. There can be an option for someone who understands federation to select their server, but if we are reaching a non-tech audience, we have to understand some people are just not going to care.

    Second, the feed. Now, the local/federated timeline is a feed, but the personal feed needs to be worked on too. We need accounts that retoot a lot, have a variety of topics, and some that talk about how mastodon works. I can think of a few already. Now I know that we wanna move away from the like culture, so have these accounts be handled by a group instead of a user only.

    Third, make it easy to switch servers or host their own instance. We would hope to move a majority of people off the “first-comer” server. This is a small dev projrct and a major community project since the biggest hurdle there is that people don’t wanna pay for hosting or learn how to self-host. Some good projects that mostly manage hosting like Yunohost so its just convincing people that its a good thing.

    This is just off the top of my head but I love this discussion happening. Following closely

    • Gwynne@lemmy.ml
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      4 years ago

      what makes you think I make good threads? thanks for the compliment though. if you want to make me a mod here. sure, I’ll accept it

      • Nutomic@lemmy.ml
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        4 years ago

        You clearly put a lot of thought into them, and managed to receive a lot of valuable comments. I think those some of the most important criteria for a good discussion.

        And you’re a mod now ;)

        • Gwynne@lemmy.ml
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          4 years ago

          I, uhh, don’t know what to say, It’s all because you made this platform in the first place that I’m here. I don’t really talk about anything because not alot of people have the same interests as I am. and I never really got noticed in the online world. it was the same, no one talked to me. but here I found that It’s different. I don’t even realized it until now because I was on fire when I came here, asking people ideas and stuff.

          It’s been exciting today to talk with real people again, and everyone is so helpful too. It’s for the first time social media made a positive impact. so I can’t thank you more, I appreciate it.

  • sibachian@lemmy.ml
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    4 years ago

    Lemmy is the only fediverse community that works ideally as a “replacement” for reddit through the inherent nature of reddit itself. Mastodon, Pixelfed, Diaspora, Friendica, peertube, Matrix, etc. None of these live up to the requirement to work as a replacement for their respective community.

    One of the major problems, i find, is that people actually want some level of spam coming their way, and to spam others. i.e. every artist knows that Twitter is the place to spread your art - and unfortunately, it cannot be done on Mastodon. Mastodon lacks both the community, and the features to highlight art and spread said art to its fans and viewers. Because of the lack of tools to get to your base on the fediverse (for privacy reasons), many people simply cannot jump to the platform without losing the ability to maintain their spread (and income), or the utility they need, in order to continue operating their communities. This is not to mention the problematic nature of how people use things. i.e. Facebook has an atrocious “forum” platform they call “groups”, people hate it, but they still opt to use Facebook’s groups rather than a proper forum or a reddit/lemmy sub for their community; and this is because they’re already on facebook as it is, because everything is on facebook, chat, group interests, shopping, business sites, business support chats, relevant ads, local and otherwise - everything is just there, and people will always take the path of least resistance even if it sort-of sucks (and believe me, i hate it more than most, as i work with facebooks tools daily, and it kills me a bit inside each and every day for how poorly everything works, there is a myriad of bugs, no support from facebook themselves, and half the time things are just down, for weeks at a time, i finally setup my own booking system because the facebook booking system has barely worked all last year - and sadly, leaving facebook for booking means i’ve lost about 20% of my clients).

    Another huge hurdle is to compete with the big names when they have so much money to blow on things that we simply can’t. i.e. facebook is huge in third world nations and essentially “the internet”, because of privatized ISPs. people can’t afford to pay for internet, and because of that facebook has carved a very fine anti-competitive hole for themselves; because, even if you can’t afford to pay for internet, you can still browse facebook; as they pay the ISPs to allow people access to facebook for free despite not paying for an internet connection - meaning that people literally use facebook as the internet, finding businesses and tech support, information, share, communicating, hobby communities, calling, chatting, shopping, news, everything and anything. how do you compete with that? you can’t, not unless the fediverse somehow had the funds to pay these ISPs free access to the fediverse. and this sadly also means that as long as facebook maintains this massive userbase, facebook is here to stay.

    Matrix is another “almost there, but not really”. It’s a fantastic platform, and it has gotten so very far since its inception, but it has too many bugs for public adoption (users except their platform of choice to ‘just work’), and still lacks essential features necessary to compete with Discord/Slack such as hotjoin voice chat, “servers” with “channels” (i know it tried to solve this, but their solution to it sucks), large-scale video conference (they sort-of do this, i guess - but it’s far from where it needs to be), and enterprise tools for administration, communication and organizing utility.

    Bottom line, if the fediverse wants to succeed, it needs to focus on the tools necessary for communities to maintain a coherent environment. To focus on tools allowing creators to spread their creations. To focus on tools allowing business operations to spread their crap. To focus on tools allowing users to maintain a structured community of interest. And to some how afford to be free without an internet subscription.

    • Gwynne@lemmy.mlOP
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      4 years ago

      even if you can’t afford to pay for internet, you can still browse facebook; as they pay the ISPs to allow people access to facebook for free despite not paying for an internet connection

      we definitely lack the advantage of assets now, we probably won’t be doing something as fancy as facebook making it browseable without having internet, we can still do something else, regardless of not having a pile of cash.

      what you said there, gave me a bit of an insight to the problems we have in fediverse, I think I can come up with a plan;

      we can make a detailed-comparison of Fediverse platforms and Corporate platforms. I’m not talking about a small “comparison type of blog”. every little detail, features, design, advantages, what it lacks, etc. to serve as a guide for the developers to tackle what’s important, and what the general mass wants in our platforms.

      what’s more, we could list out all of the problems that we have, from the most important to least important to tackle. to avoid the paradox of choice, once the page is complete.

      we’ll make the page open source on github, so people could make pull requests to update that comparison.

      (I’ll need some people to help write the page with me, we should figure out also the structure of the page first also.)

      then again, this is just an idea, if people want to follow me and create a community together, I’ll do it.

      • sibachian@lemmy.ml
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        4 years ago

        monetization for users is definitely one of the problems we’re faced regardless of platform in todays online environment and culture, but it’s especially problematic for peertube. no youtube content creator will ever be willing to migrate as their main goal of creating youtube content is to monetize it and no aspiring video creator is interested in producing content they can’t monetize due to the work involved in producing quality video as any view they gain on peertube is a direct loss on potential income from youtube.

        one way to migrate and populate the fediverse could both be by distributing crypto to content creators as well as allow users to directly monitize their browsing routines. i mean, take Brave browser for example, you get paid just by using the browser - that alone encourages users to drop whatever browser they use today and start using Brave, and r/CryptoCurrency on reddit distribute crypto based on your monthly karma accumulation on their sub which has massively populated the sub in recent months (aided by the goldrush for crypto).

        • Gwynne@lemmy.ml
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          4 years ago

          alot of people here don’t like crypto (for a good reason), one of the more successful and even more monetizable platforms than youtube is lbry/odysee which is a crypto-based platform. while I want a good solution I want to also push more ethical and methods that are still good for the environment.

          I can’t explain it well yet since I haven’t read the book, here’s a discussion about it; https://lemmy.ml/post/57150

          • sibachian@lemmy.ml
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            4 years ago

            there really isn’t a good reason imo. this whole anti-crypto movement stems from PoW (proof of work), which is shit, and modern functional crypto either never had it, or are moving away from it. there are options out there which are no more damaging to the environment than lemmy itself (i mean, we still need computers/phones/servers and power to use this service; which is damaging the environment). and not all crypto is unethical money grabs or ponzi schemes. the technology itself has a wide range of utility beyond monetary gains, and even on a monetary level cryptocurrency is only a bad idea as far as money is a bad idea in general. and even then, to create a foundation of ethical and environmental utility based crypto with a wide range of utility in all sectors of society, and encouraging wide adaption through content creators and users moving to a platform where they make money for themselves, is just a good foundation where everybody wins, intentionally or not on the users part, even if the mission of the crypto itself is not to function as a currency or wealth accumulation; the goal itself is a motivator that just helps push the cause further.

            regardless. for there to be any growth in todays climate and culture of the internet. without monetization, there is just no way to challenge big corporations. creators use these tools, such as twitter, facebook, youtube, etc. to make money. and users use them because that’s where they will find content and likeminded users. gone are the days of just raw community for the sake of community, where every site has a phpBB and every community has an IRC channel. today, everyone will move to where there is money to be made, because capitalism has corrupted every level society and there is no way to participate in society without either making money or losing money.

            i would love for there to be a growing socialist consensus leading to communism, but in reality, we can’t challenge the current structure of capitalism until we get the average user on board, and the only way to do that is show them a better tomorrow for themselves through the only system they have ever known, and go from there.

            • Gwynne@lemmy.ml
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              4 years ago

              i would love for there to be a growing socialist consensus leading to communism, but in reality, we can’t challenge the current structure of capitalism until we get the average user on board, and the only way to do that is show them a better tomorrow for themselves through the only system they have ever known, and go from there.

              okay, alright. I have no words.

              so we don’t have much of a chance in changing the world, if we don’t gather more people into the fediverse first. anyway, I hope you can join this project of mine if you are willing to volunteer. I need alot of people to help me do this. if so, wait until I’m ready.

              • sibachian@lemmy.ml
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                4 years ago

                so we don’t have much of a chance in changing the world, if we don’t gather more people into the fediverse first.

                kinda? but, while there is plenty of monetization going on over at reddit the vast majority of users are there to exchange information between each other rather than worshipping trend setters etc. which i think gives lemmy a unique advantage in the federated space to grow its userbase and encourage users to explore other platforms within the fediverse. but, content creators are one of the main driving force for user growth anywhere, even here, and they won’t participate on platforms that could actively cut into their income.

                anyway, I hope you can join this project of mine if you are willing to volunteer. I need alot of people to help me do this. if so, wait until I’m ready.

                i don’t think there’s much i can do to contribute, my main expertise is in user motivation and manipulation (marketing).

                • Gwynne@lemmy.ml
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                  4 years ago

                  i don’t think there’s much i can do to contribute, my main expertise is in user motivation and manipulation (marketing).

                  can you elaborate a bit more?

  • Vegafjord eo@lemmy.ml
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    4 years ago

    Focus local, not global. Get your friends, family and other locals to join the fediverse. Make it relevant in your community. Comprehend why your peers benefit from the fediverse and create rhetorics that can convince them. Make the process of giving it a shot as easy as possible. Dont trust that they are going to figure it out themselves. People might like the idea of the fediverse, but they have a life to deal with as well.

    • Gwynne@lemmy.mlOP
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      4 years ago

      my goal isn’t to make people I know use the fediverse, It’s the opposite. and It’s going to be pretty hard for people to convince those to use the fediverse. since everyone is used to using the same old stuff.

      I disagree on focusing locally, I’ll respect your opinion though.

      • Vegafjord eo@lemmy.ml
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        4 years ago

        If you dont believe that everyday people can be convinced, then you should also forfeit the idea that it can become mainstream.