AP and Reuters have run with the initial claims coming from Hamas that the hospital was struck by an Israeli airstrike. This article disputes that.
AP and Reuters have run with the initial claims coming from Hamas that the hospital was struck by an Israeli airstrike. This article disputes that.
The IDF claims this was caused by a mid-fire of Hamas rockets. Both sides have provided the exact same amount of evidence, zero. Maybe wait before hoping back on the anti-Israel bandwagon.
There is nothing wrong with being distrustful of blatant propaganda.
I mean… Do we really believe that propaganda is something that only one side of this conflict engages in?
Hamas claims it was Israel, and Israel claims it was Hamas.
Both have a possible motive, and both had the opportunity.
Both have every reason to lie about it or otherwise spin up a narrative that will embolden their support.
The fact remains that one of them did it, either intentionally or incidentally, and they are both certain to blame the other regardless. In the end, I don’t know the truth, nor do you, or the media, or even the victims of the attack themselves. It’s just another sad example of the cycle of needless violence and the massive humanitarian disaster that this situation is, has been, and will only continue to be for the foreseeable future. No matter which way we look, its the innocent people who seem to suffer the most.
We can only hope that the genuine objective truth behind this attack somehow comes to light and whoever is responsible for it is held accountable.
I think you are falling into whataboutism.
Just because they expressed skepticism of one sides propaganda doesn’t mean they would accept the other side’s propaganda at face value.
I don’t think what I said is whataboutism–at least that wasn’t my intent.
I’m simply pointing out the few facts as we know them right now, as well as the extremely high degree of uncertainty around what actually happened.
I’m not on Israel’s side, I just want the truth…
Sadly, and to my point, truth is not something we can expect from either side of this conflict. Because as I was trying to point out, both sides might have had motive, both sides certainly had the opportunity, and both sides are basically certain to blame the other side regardless of what happened. So…
I think I tend to agree with the comment up the chain, that the best and most reasonable course of action is to wait for whatever evidence exists to surface before we collectively decide to buy into either side’s narrative about what happened. Talk is cheap, but I think anything that’s true can be proved, given enough time.
Please explain where he used whataboutism? Where did he relativise one evil with another?
It’s all there is from both sides until the situation is investigated more closely.
So when the IDF says it, it’s propaganda, but when Hamas says it, despite video evidence to the contrary, it’s fact
Nobody said that… but have fun arguing with your own little straw man.
Evidence is paramount, there is zero reason to believe either side without it. Hamas can’t be trusted at face value, and Israel has not only released false information but has directly lied to allies in the past as well. Neither side can be trusted to provide accurate information.
There’s clear evidence that Israel has weaponry capable of an explosion like this, and zero evidence that Hamas does. Israel is also constantly changing their story on this as well. Seems pretty straightforward to me.
In an absence of evidence, I’ll stand against the oppressors every time, thanks.
My tongue-in-cheek comment was more meant to make people pause and think before accepting any propaganda full face.
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The video of the strike looks pretty successful and not failed
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You lost me here. Civilians do not deserve this bullshit.
I get where you’re coming from but no one said anything about harming the civilians. The idea is to dissolve Israel and make them citizens of a secular united Palestine.
How would Hamas, an offshoot of the Muslim brotherhood, possibly create a secular united Palestine?
Is this a real question? The Fatah.
But I don’t understand. Do you think the middle east is incapable of having a democratic election?
Do you think dissolving an entire internationally accepted country is the most reasonable solution? So Fatah takes over Israel, and all will be well? The millions of Jews will be safe? Hamas will just disappear? The Hamas that was voted for and won an election after the demilitarization in 2005. The one who has had many officials state doing horrible things to Jews is a blessing. They’ll just be gone, right? Oh but we are talking about a single state solution. So when the 9.5 million people currently in Israel outvote the 5 million people currently in the Palestinian territories… that’ll be ok right?
Yeah? Palestinians are not blood thirsty monsters. They just want Israel to stop the daily war crimes, ya know the ones that started well before October.
You realize that more than 50% of Israel thinks Netanyahu needs to be removed for his handling of this situation? The citizens on both side just want peace. So yeah, I have faith in them.
I’ll take “Things That Will Never Happen”, for $600 Alex.
The US will never give the land back to the Natives but I wouldn’t be mad if a Native that said “the land does not belong to the US”
¯_(ツ)_/¯
That was hundreds of years ago. If we can go hundreds them why not back to the when the kingdom of Saul? Or perhaps, since all people started somewhere in Africa, we should all be forced to cram into one small area of Africa. That way we can be sure no one is living on conquered land. Only the land we evolved into humans on.
The natives in the US experienced horrible things including genocide. But there is no changing what happened. Currently, the Sioux nation tribes have chosen not to accept $1.2 billion after they successfully sued the US government for confiscating land from them agreed upon Ina treaty. To do so, they argue, would mean giving up any claim on the land. However, they have managed to purchase some of the land and gotten the US government to recognize it as part of the Indian trust. And they continue to work to get back more. Whether they would be more capable doing that with $1.2 billion is a whole discussion. But setting that aside, suppose the tribes instead starting murdering the people who currently live in Black hills. How do you suppose that would work out?
We do not get to just ignore current state of the world. Israel has been a recognized country since 1948. Jews have had a presence there since biblical times. It isn’t going away. But Palestine can become a country as well. Accepting Israel’s right to exist is part of that. Hamas will not achieve its goal. And what kind of moral stance is it that they should?
You are missing the point unfortunately. The people you are trying to discuss with are not willing to allow an Israeli state at all. They want to dissolve Israel and Israel +Gaza+Westbank shall become Palestine.
And I said, that’s the problem. That’s not how the real world works. the IRA only wanted north Ireland. Imagine had they wanted all of the UK as well. Israel is an accepted country by international standards, which does mean something in the real world. And comparing to the troubles of Ireland/North Ireland, let’s keep in mind the peace they have found did not unite Ireland and abandon the UK.
The people of Palestine have had many chances to form their own country. But they wanted everything, rather than what was offered. The terrorist attacks do nothing to put the security of Israel as a country at risk. It does, however, hinder their abilities to form their own country that does not include the land of Israel.
We will see the end of Israel when nukes fall, but at that point, we may not see much more. I hope that doesn’t happen. I also hope that at some point, both Israel and Palestine can come to some form of peace. There have been so many missed opportunities. And so many dead.
Interesting you bring up 1948 cuz 1948 was the start of Apartheid in South Africa.
South Africa recognizes what Israel is doing as apartheid.
So what happened with Apartheid in South Africa? How did that one shake out?
Well I mean I think you are connecting some sparse dots, but since you asked… the main protests in SA were strikes, boycotts, and civil disobedience. One of the leading strikers you might’ve heard of, Nelson Mandela? Not seeing a lot about rockets being launched at civilians though as I look up more information.
Although if you want to make comparisons, why don’t you compare punishments for political offenders to what occurs in Israel and question if they are really the same.
I’m also not sure how SA makes the argument that this is an apartheid state. I mean Hamas did win the election by the Palestinian people, right? They are the ruling party at least in Gaza, right? Free to make diplomatic relations with other countries right? Shares a border with Egypt as well? Had 18 years to get on good terms with them. Pretty sure if Israel was in control of Gaza, then Israel wouldn’t have suffered the third biggest terrorist attack in history a few days ago. Israel doesn’t control Palestinian marriages, schools, television. What qualifies it as apartheid? The border? The blockade?
Well, I have some difficulties seeing Hamas or even Fatah participating peacefully to a secular Palestinian government. Two states living next to each other remains the only possible solution for at least a hundreds year. But Israel needs to make concessions to Fatah if one wants a chance to have a long enough peace to starts mending the civil society.
I’m in favor of a two state solution or a one state solution. But my opinion isn’t important. Hamas is in favor of a two state solution and so are the Israeli people.
Just point out that lack of Israel does not strictly mean death of the Israelis. Lots of people think a one state solution is best because it would prevent the second class citizenship currently present in Israel.