There is no election in sight, this is prime time to criticize the DNC. Anyone trying to shut down discussion right now is the biggest loser DNC shill you can imagine.
Except it literally was during the election.
Good. That’s when Democrats should be criticized the most, because that is the only time you have the power to exercise any leverage over them. Why would you refuse to criticize them when you actually have a tiny bit of leverage and wait until you have no power at all and your criticism is completely irrelevant and will be ignored? That is just someone who wants to complain but doesn’t actually want anything to change.
Hey y’all, at least Gaza is saved, right? Take that, Kamala! Haha! Both sides are the same! All of this definitely would have happened under Kamala, it’s so obvious! Two wings of the same bird amirite?!
Pretty dumb question ask after this particular election. Let’s see, if you had stock in a company who only sold a product once every four years, should you complain about the company and its products during the sale? Hmmm. Hmmm.
Only if you’re privileged enough that the failure of success of the sale won’t affect you. Yeah, we see you.
Ah yes, crying about “privilege” while you’re here demanding that people shouldn’t speak out against a literal modern day holocaust at the only time when they have the political power to make some sort of difference. Yeah, it’s totally those people who are “privileged” and not your white pasty ass who doesn’t have to worry about their extended family being slaughtered.
Hey y’all, at least Gaza is saved, right? Take that, Kamala! Haha! Both sides are the same! All of this definitely would have happened under Kamala, it’s so obvious! Two wings of the same bird amirite?!
this is the reason why democrats keep losing.
Democrats keep losing because they have a fundamental misunderstanding of the game they are playing. Democracy is not a game of having the best ideas or plans or even character. You can win hearts and minds with passionate leadership and rational persuasion, but we’ll never win another election if that’s the only lever they want to press. It’s a progressive truism that people, given the same information and the same priorities, will reach the same conclusion. So therefore if a conservative has a difference of opinion, they must either not have the same information, or they must have different priorities. That’s why progressives are so frequently astounded at the hypocrisy and mental gymnastics required to support Trump while claiming any moral highground on any position.
How can they claim they want traditional family values when Trump is a thrice-divorced rapist with an obvious attraction to his own daughter? How can they oppose immigration when Trump has had two foreign national brides and Musk was an illegal immigrant? How can they oppose a woman’s right to choose when Trump has paid women to abort fetuses he sired? How can they claim to be patriotic while Trump gargles Putin’s sweaty raisin bag? How can they claim to want fiscal responsibility when Trump has driven his businesses into the ground, routinely declaring bankruptcy and using his political influence to line his own pockets? How can they claim to want lower costs of living when Trump plans to raise tariffs on imported goods, making literally everything more expensive?
The answer is that they don’t care. They don’t care about having all the information, or having true information. The conservative mind is not a rational actor. It’s not built on priorities or fundamental beliefs. There is only one core idea at the nexus of every conservative ideology:
Me good.
That’s it. That’s all there is. Dig down far enough, under all the bullshit and psychological spaghetti of beliefs, and you’ll find one nugget of truth. I am a good person, therefore whatever I want is good, and anyone that wants something else is bad. If it helps me to lie or cheat or murder, then I’ll do those things and they will be good because I did them to help me.
This has always been the comforting lie of conservative thought. Conservatives claim to want stoic preservation of national values, but the reality is that those values inexorably align with their own personal gain. It is not, as most conservatives prefer to believe, a resistance to change for change’s sake, but a narcissistic demand that all policies and decisions benefit themselves.
It’s more transparent now because Trump has worn thin the veneer of reasonable discretion, but the closer to the surface it gets, the more effective the messaging. It’s OK to be selfish, and ignorant, and cruel, and criminal, because deep down we deserve to do whatever we want. We deserve to get whatever we want. Anyone trying to keep it from us deserves to be destroyed. Anything we do to destroy those who would stop us is righteous. Cuz me good.
You’re never going to convince a conservative to vote for the lesser of two evils, because the greater of the two will simply lie to them. The greater evil will tell them they can have it all, that the dangers of climate change or viral pandemics aren’t real, that they don’t have to change their behavior or learn something new. They don’t have to get out of bed in the morning, they can stay warm under the covers and skip school or work or adulting, and everything will be just fine.
To win an election, you have to convince the conservatives that it is in their best interest to vote for the progressive candidate. That might sound like a tall order, but we already know how to do it. We already see the gameplan that works on all conservatives. We have seen how centrists and moderates and neoliberals win in conservative strongholds.
Progressives just need to start lying.
Progressives just need to start lying.
What do you mean “start”? They already have been.
About what?
Oh I don’t know, Gaza ceasefire, Biden being a one turn president and not fucking the party and the nation, pardoning your crackhead son, we can keep going all the way back to card check if you want won’t help.
Also my favorite saga of this presidency was price controls. 2 years ago the CHUDs had their gas is expensive meme phase with their “I did that” Brandon stickers and the entire Dem party went on the offensive of saying “THE PRESIDENT DOESN’T CONTROL GAS PRICES YOU ABSOLUTE MORON YOU ABSOLUTE IMBICILE” and then 2 years later Kamala Harris’ platform (the one that nobody actually read except to send as a PDF to people to prove that they’re wrong about her) says she can lower the price of groceries. Which one is it guys?
Dems lie all the time. There’s just an entire media ecosystem ready to give you a technocratic puppet theater about why or how it’s smart, or how it actually doesn’t count and how they’re still the good guys.
Hell Glen Kessler makes an entire department’s paycheck by writing “fact checking” where he picks and chooses the dumbest most obvious lies to call a lie, promotes the most innocuous irrelevant truths and then conveniently ignores the statements/lies that would actually impact the American people if they were fulfilled.
Id consectetur dolore eiusmod culpa.
Depends on the critique. “Joe is a hypocrite for pardoning his son” is reasonable. “Joe proves that it’s normal for politicians to act unethically, therefore criticisms of all unethical behavior are invalidated by the rule of whataboutism” is a transparent defense of Republican corruption.
I hate this discourse that what Joe did is okay because Trump did something similar. Trump did a lot of horrible things. That doesn’t make it okay for the next schmuck to come along and do the same thing. Two wrongs don’t make a right. I shouldn’t have to explain this to people.
Drag thinks it’s okay. The SCOTUS decided that the president is a king. Trump had decided to be a king. But Biden won’t be a king. For the next month, drag wishes Biden would just be a little bit of a king and use his power to disrupt Trump’s plans. We’re looking at a fascist dictatorship, the ends justify the means.
Critiquing the dems while telling us how trump did some good things…
Is this… Yes, its supporting trump.
Otherwise, yeah, nail the dems to the wall.
(Oops. Forgot this was .ml. Trump is good for reasons.)
Well it was a reference to previous posts who only criticized biden
Don’t forget being called a tankie for daring to rightfully criticize the democrats for being the frauds they are.
Tankie basically means “any Leftist” at this point, though Marxists get the brunt of it.
Yeah, meanwhile the only actual tankies are the ones who cheerlead the USSR and PRC.
As an anti authoritarian, while I can see some redeeming qualities in those countries, overall I’m not a fan. Though I do love me some propaganda art from the time.
To be clear, the vast majority of Marxists support the PRC and USSR. The only major exceptions are Trots, who are mostly found in the Western Left due to their anti-AES slant aligning with the overall liberal Western hegemony, and small pockets in South America. Trots have produced no successful revolutions, so they pose little threat. Though I do think it’s funny that Trots love newspapers.
As for “anti-authoritarian,” I’m not really sure what that means unless you are either an Anarchist or have an arbitrary level of government you deem unacceptable.
Anarchist. I lean somewhere between anarcho communist and libertarian socialist. In the most basic sense, I’m suspicious of power because I believe power corrupts and no system of economics or government is immune to this.
Why do you believe Anarchism is better at solving this problem than Marxism?
Marxism already proved itself corruptable.
Can you elaborate? Moreover, can you explain why you believe Anarchism to be better at solving this percieved problem?
Corruption exists in all systems, but that doesn’t mean it can’t be fought against. Letting perfect utopia be the enemy of massive progress is fatal. Even in an Anarchist system, there can and would be differences in power and access to resources, only without a spread of power across the system.
Leading up to the election? Very reasonable. The Democrats are frauds, but they’re not as bad for the left as Republicans. It’s in our best interest to big tent with them for damage mitigation, to prevent the fascists from gaining power. Criticism, however deserved, helps the fascists.
After the election? Have at 'em. They’re not as terrible as the Republicans, but they’re awful nonetheless.
The Dems are just as bad as the Reps for Leftists because both represent Capital above all else.
Very false. They both represent capital yes, but one is objectively more opposed to leftist policy than the other. Republicans are more anti-Union, more against single payer healthcare, etc.
Voting isn’t about choosing who best represents you, that person isn’t going to win. Voting is about choosing who you’re going to be fighting for the next 4 years. I’d rather push left against the Democrats than the Republicans.
You’re confusing social reforms with genuine Leftist movement. Both the Dems and the Reps are thoroughly anti-Leftist, and neither can be worked with along Leftist lines.
I didn’t say work with, I said fight.
You specifically mentioned policies like “single payer healthcare,” not the establishment of Socialism. How do you get these policies without establishing Socialism? By trying to use the existing system and parties in it, however futile that may be. Hence why Leftists focus on establishing Socialism, and why the Dems and Reps are equally hostile to Leftists.
If you can’t tell the difference between bad and worse, I can’t help you. They’re both hostile to the left, but only one is also hostile to the center.
I believe if leftists actually started showing up, and petitioned the Democrats for charge, they might get some meager nominal concessions. The Republicans not only won’t do that, they’ll double down on authoritarianism.
The very same tepid institutionalism that prevents them from boldly accomplishing anything is exactly what makes them a more favorable enemy. Republicans don’t care about the institutions at all, they’ll install a Christo-fascist ethnostate the exact moment they have the opportunity. I’d rather fight neoliberals than Christo-fascists, and I’m not sure why you wouldn’t.
But go ahead, don’t vote strategically to support an easier-to-defeat enemy. I’m sure playing on hard mode will establish socialism faster.
If you think one genocide is just as bad as 3, when the difference is millions of lives, then you have no heart.
Drag gets it, okay? “Just as bad” is a great soundbite. It gets people riled up and ready to take action. But it’s also false, because it erases millions of genocide victims. And drag wants to know whether you’ve thought about the millions of genocide victims you’re erasing to accomplish your goals. Has it not crossed your mind yet, or did you make a conscious choice to use genocide-denying rhetoric?
“Big tent” with people who will give you nothing for your vote. There is a slight chance that they will not take as much away or maybe just not as fast, but they won’t make any meaningful changes.
you committed a genocide; you are a fascist. shut the fuck up ‘those guys are fascists’ you are literally the same
I didn’t do shit. The unwavering support of Israel is the natural extension of the exact same foreign policy we’ve adopted since Israel was founded. And don’t pretend it’s magically gonna get better now that Dems lost. Talk to Palestinians, they’re terrified of Trump’s bromance with Bibi.
Both parties are the enemy. Democrats are an easier to defeat enemy. Why would you want to fight the harder enemy? The odds are already stacked against the left, why make them worse?
I didn’t do shit. The Palestinian genocide is a built in feature of both parties. I support one of them.
Talk to Palestinians, they’re terrified of Trump’s bromance with Bibi.
Fuck you just making shit up to win an internet argument. Bloodless fucking ghoul.
Democrats are an easier to defeat enemy.
Based on what? How for 3 out of every 4 years it’s fucking forbidden to say a bad word about them and how they siphon off everyone who would otherwise have human morals from actual good work? How the fucking shit are you having the goddamned fucking gall to say this shit when the only fighting you want to do against them is telling people to vote for them?
Well good news! They got beat, so now we can move on, right??
“Support” and “damage mitigation” are two very different things.
Fuck you just making shit up to win an internet argument.
I’ve been donating directly to Palestinians distributing aid for years. I talk to them, that’s what they say. But sure, you know better.
the only fighting you want to do against them is telling people to vote for them?
Who said anything about “only”? I’m talking about setting the floor and working from there. Look at the two options on election day, and vote for the better starting point.
Don’t listen to the Palestinians who correctly observe that they’re being exterminated with a democrat in charge. Listen to the Palestinians I claim exist who support the democrats that are committing a genocide against them. The people of Palestine want Juan Guiado as their president.
Who said anything about “only”? I’m talking about setting the floor and working from there. Look at the two options on election day, and vote for the better starting point.
No one said shit. I’m watching what you actually do and what happened the last 4 years when you got what you wanted. It puts the lie to all the hollow bullshit you’ve repeated to death here.
You distributed aid with one hand and you voted for their extermination with the other. I don’t give a fuck what you have to say or what percentage of it is not a lie. I’m sure you’re telling the truth about the last part. You’re a nazi.
Don’t listen to the Palestinians who correctly observe that they’re being exterminated with a democrat in charge.
I listen to both. Neither party will end this. One party will expand and accelerate it. Both things are true. That’s what they have been saying, that Biden’s policies, and by presumptive extension Kamala’s, were horrific, but Trump would be even worse. And you claim the voices saying that are a rhetorical fabrication. Erasing victims of genocide in an impossible situation pleading to mitigate the damage, because that conflicts with your Internet argument. Who is the bloodless ghoul?
I’m watching what you actually do and what happened the last 4 years when you got what you wanted.
You don’t know the first thing about what I actually do and what I want. I don’t want the Democrats. I just want MAGA even less, and no one else has 80 million votes.
You distributed aid with one hand and you voted for their extermination with the other.
I voted to keep out the greater evil, but sure. Pretend that if Biden lost and Trump was in office on Oct 8, Palestine would be better off. One thing is true, the genocide would have ended much sooner. Get out of your Internet bubble.
Having a big tent isn’t winning the election. They need to be offering seats at the table.
Big tents absolutely win elections, that’s really the only thing that does. Seats at the table are incentives to get people in the tent. But if they don’t get the votes , they don’t get the table, and any seats they offer are worthless.
You put me in a room with Democratic party leadership, and I’ll tear into them with all the rightful criticism they deserve. You put me in a room with voters, before the election, I will sing their praises. I’ll advocate their victories and downplay their flaws.
Not because the victories are substantial, and certainly not because their flaws aren’t terrible. But there are two tents big enough to win the office, and the other one is worse and backed by lockstep support.
Did the Dems gain significant votes by offering Liz Cheney a seat at the table?
Liz Cheney represents conservatives who don’t want to vote for Trump. That demographic represents more votes than leftists. That’s what happens when you play hard to get too hard, the person you’re after gives up and goes after someone else.
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Exactly, which is why Kamala won!
Just because it wasn’t successful doesn’t mean it wasn’t the rational choice. It’s very possible that she would have done worse if she hadn’t courted conservatives, and possible she would have done even worse than that if she’d gone full tilt toward progressives. Hindsight is easy.
