I like how you quote critical articles from Israeli media, that is a testimony that freedom of speech is very much a real thing there.

The first article from Haaretz which is very known as anti settlements leftist newspaper. All it says is that instead of giving weapons for the population in the villages and kibbutz and cities around Gaza to defend themselves in case of intrusion, it was given for settlements in the west bank and when the shit hit the fan they were completely unprepared.

The second article is also an internal criticism of the progroms that went in Huwara. I am happy that criticism of Israel is still possible

The last one about Itzik Zarka, who should really not get a headline as he’s the lowest form of scum, yeah these people exist but are very much on the fringe of society and do not deserve any attention. Unfortunately Bibi likes to use these people when convenient for him

They most definitely have uniforms, they just don’t use them when fighting Israel as they are embedded inside civilians. And they most definitely hide and attack from schools, mosques and hospitals.

A lot of what you said is just factually incorrect. Putting the west bank aside and focusing on Gaza, there was no humanitarian crisis before October 7 and there are no settlements in Gaza. The “snipers at the border” were not so effective on the day of October 7th when Hamas broke into Israel and massacred women and children. Hamas did not go into settlements in the west bank. It went into regular villages and cities and did what it did.

And that last part about the mocking of Holocaust survivors, not sure where you get that from

Every Palestinian in Gaza knows they are using hospitals, mosques, schools to conduct their military operation from there. Have you seen them wearing uniforms in their videos?

This is no secret, it’s playbook assymetric warfare tactic I honestly don’t understand the denial about it. Do you expect them to have some military base with a helicopter landing so Israel can bomb it in a second?

At which point do you believe that Hamas will disarm its arsenal of rockets firing regularly at Israel ? What would need to happen for Hamas to do that you think ?

I think Palestinians are very much conceived as the victims today world wide. And I think they are playing that card well and I don’t blame them for that.

I didn’t want to go to “who started it” because it’s a useless debate. The cycle has been going for decades with casualties on both ends.

I’m very much capable of empathy. This whole thread is about the Israel Hamas war so I steered the discussion back to that topic.

I am very sad about the current state of affairs, there’s immense suffering on both ends and it’s not going to stop anytime soon. I don’t hate Palestinians. As an expat Israeli, every time I see a Palestinian abroad we usually become friends and naturally have more in common.

I’m saying exactly that, there’s a propaganda echo chamber and information on the other side is very little so not sure where we disagree on that

I can see you are washed with hatred, I don’t blame you.

I can tell you many stories about Israeli peace activists that were affected by all this as well, like this guy for example: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/israeli-exec-who-hired-palestinians-in-tech-boom-still-hopes-for-peace-while-mourning-slain-daughter-c8af06c8

He hired engineers from Gaza and the west bank to try and foster peace through work and his daughter was murdered on Oct 7th. He still hasn’t given up on hope.

If you only choose to hate, you continue to cycle

No, each side is in a propaganda echo chamber.

No death or suffering is more or less important than others.

No one ( well, almost no one) in Israel wants to see innocent civilians getting killed.

I condemn all such behavior. Extremists on both sides are setting the tone unfortunately. I can assure you that Israelis are asking the same questions as they keep seeing the videos of rape and murder in a loop since October 7.

I think you’re giving too much discount for the Palestinians for their current state or affairs and make it sound like everything that happened to them was done to them by Israel only. Both you and I know that is not true. A lot of things could and should have been handled differently, the same of course can be said for Israel. So try to get out of the position for a moment and see that there are a lot of things Palestinians can do to try and change their situation, regardless of any shitty behavior by Israel.

Unfortunately everything you said about israel is true, as an (expat) Israeli I see the current conflict only drives us further from any solution and more bloodshed in the future is almost certain.

Regarding Hamas, it’s a fundamentalist jihadistic group that will not stop until the complete annihilation of all the Jews, with that I’m certain as they are saying exactly that. However they can be overthrown, that is what this war is about. Who will replace them ? No idea. Might be even worse…

There are many good people on both ends that want to live in peace. Unfortunately the leadership is bad, driven by extremists and the politics are horrible (at least on Israel’s side, don’t know much about PA)

Palestinians should agree to get their own country and rule it themselves. Why would they be starved and killed ? Not sure I follow. No one should be starved or killed.

And regarding Hamas - Israel cannot coexist next to it. Since Palestinians will not remove Hamas, who else will do it ? Egypt ? The rest of the Arab world ? Israel is left to do it unfortunately. I would like to see any other country in the middle east handle a situation like that… Think they would eliminate Hamas with 0 civilian casualties?

Given the chance, I would immediately start negotiations for two states solution but that will never happen in the current climate.

I do not brush aside the suffering of Palestinians. Both populations are screwed over by bad leadership.

However, Hamas started this one by murdering and kidnapping women and children and doing horrendous things. Israel has the right to retaliate. They should do so with the least amount of casualties.

Unfortunately, in the long run, this gets no one closer to nowhere.

Personally, I definitely support the right of Palestinians to exist. They should have their own state and live peacefully side by side to Israel. Unfortunately both Israelis and Palestinians are plagued by horrible leadership that prevent any of this from happening

I agree with your analysis of Israel. I don’t see much hope for change there, unfortunately and looks like this sentiment will only grow stronger from now on. However the discussion was around Hamas specifically. They don’t want to live in peace alongside Israel. They completely deny the concept of Israel and will not stop until the last Jew is driven out. Can’t justify that either

As a Palestinian, you don’t have any criticism of Hamas ? Oct 7th was just an “act of resistance” according to your view?

Do you agree with Hamas ? Why one state solution and not two states?

Not a paradise but not too bad of a prison either https://nitter.net/imshin/status/1733819052659740965?s=20

The tunnels are built to provide strategic advantage over Israeli military superiority. Also to smuggle equipment for rockets which Hamas has plenty of and uses them regularly. Ordinary Gazans do not get to use the tunnels to hide and stay alive. They are needed as human shields instead.

Israel is far from being a spotless angel. Nothing in life is black and white like that. But Hamas started this one. And Israel cannot live with an organization that kidnaps, rapes and beheads people on its border