The web is fucked and there’s nothing we can do about it. This is a manifesto by Kev Quirk looking back at Web 1.0 and why it was better.

I think something important to point out is that the old web was declarative: we standardized HTML elements (like <form>) so that different browsers and spiders could interoperate. The powers this provided are being eroded by the move to the web as an app distribution platform (whether it’s JS or wasm).

We need protocol-first design so that more solutions can interoperate. ActivityPub, Webmention/Microformats or Matrix, although i have some technical criticism of these protocols, are really a breathe of fresh air in this direction.

☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆
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9urte bat

I’m very optimistic about the rise of federation and ActivityPub in particular. The main problem with web 1.0 was discoverability, and that’s precisely the problem addressed by federation using a common protocol. Other important factors are availability of cheap VPS hosting solutions and containerization. Running your own server today is much cheaper and easier than it was even a few years ago.

All the tools are there to start rebuilding open web and I think we’re seeing that starting to happen now with stuff like Mastodon, PeerTube, Pixelfed, and Lemmy. It might be a tiny percentage of the overall web right now, but I’m going to argue that it’s the absolute size that matters here. Open platforms only need to attract enough users to be self sustaining. As long as there are enough people willing to develop them, fund hosting, and create content, then these platforms can exist indefinitely without the need for rapid growth.

@Zerush@lemmy.ml
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7urte bat

It is not a problem of web 0.1 or web whatever, it is a problem of the clear violation of basic user rights, when large companies, mainly American, began to create income with the sale of users’ private data. For this reason, there are already more and more initiatives against the practices of surveillance advertising, because it is only this that is fucking the internet, nothing else.

https://www.forbrukerradet.no/side/new-report-details-threats-to-consumers-from-surveillance-based-advertising/

https://www.natlawreview.com/article/accountable-tech-files-petition-ftc-rulemaking-to-ban-surveillance-advertising

https://www.bansurveillanceadvertising.com

https://blog.mailfence.com/ban-surveillance-advertising/

Helix 🧬
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7urte bat

Content warning: If you hadn’t noticed already, this manifesto is not suitable for work as it contains curse words throughout.

Joke’s on you, slave of capitalism, my workplace tolerates swearing. It’s a sign of honesty if you can swear to someone. Think about it ;)

@ErmahghrrdDavid@lemmy.ml
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urte bat

Kev is a bit of a personal hero of mine, he’s just an ordinary IT professional (like me) who uses his free time to blog about important tech issues, write open source and run fosstodon - one of the larger and more active mastodon instances. More info is available at his site https://kevq.uk

The only thing I disagree with him on in this manifesto is that there is nothing we can do. We can and are fighting a lot of the bullshit with decentralisation and decommercialisation of the many services. It is a slow and painful process that isn’t happening overnight but people are waking up to how crap Meta Facebook is (fuck Mark and his awful attempt at distracting folks with a rebrand) - anecdotal but most people I’ve spoken to in recent months about Facebook say they only keep it around for messenger and meme groups or they have deleted it entirely and they say they no longer share life updates or engage in ‘meaningful’ discussion there.

There is a huge opportunity for a grassroots push away from the corporate Web and surely we’ve got to take it? We can keep building usable tools like Lemmy, Mastodon and simple to use indieweb tooling to help draw in the average Joe and evangelising where possible. We should try to use some of their tools against them e.g pool together to pay for ads on Facebook, reddit etc to pull people away.

The decentralise and federate and anti-corporate web movement gives me hope that whilst the Web is fucked we can still fix it

Helix 🧬
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urte bat

Why are forums classified as Web 1.0 still? I think Web 2.0 was about the ability of people being able to create content without having to set up their own website, mostly fuelled by AJAX and similar technologies. Wikipedia has an even broader definition:

Web 2.0 (also known as participative (or participatory) web and social web) refers to websites that emphasize user-generated content, ease of use, participatory culture and interoperability (i.e., compatibility with other products, systems, and devices) for end users.

This applies to forums:

CHEF-KOCH
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urte bat
  • Title is clickbait.
  • People only upvote it because admin posted it, that is all.
  • Web is not controlled by larger companies only, they might be the ones with most impact, true but they do not dictate what you should do. Face it, most people believe everything Microsoft, Google telling them no matter if it is right or wrong because they think big Corps have more credibility.
  • We have dozens of articles like this already, why write another one … What have you done to make things better… Why not list organizations like EFF who fight for us or help them to get more attention.
  • Saying things like - we cannot do much about it - without even trying to provide some solution is seriously the wrong way to motivate readers.
  • Even domain name is based and redpilled.
  • Echo chambering the same over and over again helps how … People will give up an feel helpless.

Here is what people could do

  • Support small platforms like Lemmy, Fediverse in general.
  • Support actual organization that fight for you, such as EFF.
  • Instead of whining that web is miserable, I read this nonsense since 20+ years now, each year new clickbait … oh adblock destroys the web, oh Microsoft destroys the web, web is broken … Blah blah blah. Provide some serious solutions, because this is what will consume Brain power here. Some people actually did, created crypto and other systems that are not controlled by the big Corpos or the government.

My opinion on the submission and Tech + Web, not meant to offend but my little review on this.

bunkrra
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good points. only one think is bothering me and that is EFF, by my opinion they are like a wolf in the sheep skin. Yes they acting in the favor of more private, secure and “better” web, but if you just look who is backing up the organization, who are the board members, then its clear that its a shady band (good example with fb and analytica scandal). im sorry but im applying zero trust policy even for them, even if i like the work what the whole EFF doing. this is just my personal view on the matter.

edit: they suggesting Signal to use, so fck eff particularry

CHEF-KOCH
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4urte bat

Yeah, you always find something to criticize if you want to. However, they also often update statements and criticism. I am not going to defend them on Signal because I also dislike it, but sure as hell it is better than what most people use WhatsApp, Facebook etc.

Still upvote you because it is your opinion, which seems legitimate and has some points that I also think could be improved from EFFs end.

bunkrra
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3urte bat

yes, correct. you can be like that, it was not an intention now, eff is big platform with huge impact. there is no point to criticize some/something if it is meaningless. respect for your efforts with badger. i hope it will not turn dark and evil on the end all with eff.

EFF fights? Why did they stay silent and denialist during Cambridge Analytica?

See, the issue is they feel like a grifter to me. Cambridge Analytica brought on board even the most ignorant people to condemn Facebook and the whole CIA apparatus, and EFF stayed silent on it. Later they can publish 100 articles like a news reporter, but what they are supposed to be is an activist organisation to fight for privacy, not some political analyst on a TV show.

Moreover, the board of EFF has some questionable entities participating on it.

  • Gigi Sohn - Counselor to former FCC Chairman (FCC has been anti net neutrality) and former Project Specialist for Ford Foundation, a CIA related outlet

  • Sarah Deutsch - former VP for Verizon, and responsible for DMCA being a thing

  • Ample funding from Facebook

Some links:

EFF is not a transparent organisation, unlike how the Linux Foundation (in case you wanted to draw parallels) is related to Linux kernel development and Linux related stuff, which is out in the open.

CHEF-KOCH
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2urte bat

I find such accusations without anything behind pretty harsh.

EFF is not a transparent organization…

but what they are supposed to be is an activist organisation to fight for privacy, not some political analyst on a TV show…

Eff has some campaigns running and did so in the past. Campaign that people paid for and they were pretty transparent because they report about all won and lost battles. They have social media, you can ask and contact them over there too. Not sure what your definition of transparent is.

  • You can find absolute no organization without what you call questionable entities in it, the world is not about how perfect things should be, it is about reality and we are in a democracy, it is always about finding the best compromises that fits for everyone and not anarchy. Adding people that previously worked in e.g. Facebook, just an example does not automatically mean they negatively influence your organization, you need simply insiders, opinions and experts from both ends. I for example cannot claim X and then when someone ask me if I used it, admit nope I never did. This is not how real world works, you need to get in touch, get those people onboard and test things on your own and not what other puppets telling you.
  • If you like to smear campaign EFF and their mission feel free to open your own threat on this and then link it to them to give them a fair chance to respond. I do not like to shit-talk others behind their back. The things I express here are already expressed from myself on other platforms too, so I am no hypocrite. I also do not say everything some individuals or organizations do is what I always backup, but again we are in a democracy. If you want perfect things or a perfect world then the Internet is not for you.
  • You linked articles are not really a problem for EFF because they support privacy, we can now talk about whenever the Apple thing is good or bad for privacy but at least they try to go new ways and support - what they think - is better than the current situation. I rather would take this on Apple and not on EFF. People simply just use iOS if you like it or not and Apple tried to address some concerns, sure it is not perfect but its a small process and made some people more aware that there are currently issues.

Can we go back to topic, I think the Cambridge thing is already over and Facebook had his worst year in 2021. I do not like hijacking threads like this. I also do not like to smear someones entire reputation based on one or two things some people did, this is not how things should be handled. Name someone without any flaws, that would be real news and a big bummer. If you dig for dirt you always find some, on every side.

I do not backup EFF on every move they do or did, it also was only an example on who you can support with eg donations.

Now tell me what campaigns you running as private person … oh whoops none… Full circle.

If you are saying Levine’s article criticising EFF is baseless, and then go on to handwave

Now tell me what campaigns you running as private person … oh whoops none… Full circle.

CHEF-KOCH, that looks like a personal attack to me, honestly. Considering it as a sign of immaturity, I forgive you. People get uncontrollable in the heat of the moment these days.

I think I have done quite a bit for exposing the anonymous grifts going on in privacy community, proudly so. I have also been able to establish a privacy community on reddit where users get help instead of r/privacy giving privacy seekers mental health issues. I have put myself on the frontlines of Lemmy, the second biggest Fediverse network, to protect it from horrible people, all alone. I have made guides that have gained plenty recognition from all kinds of people. I give OPSEC advice. I dissected the entire WhatsApp privacy policy last year. I go around helping people beyond just the privacy communities and receive DMs for help and advice.

I do a lot for 1 person that refuses donations that have been offered. This is not my CV, and not some self drum beating, but people have no idea when amidst all this, you receive death threats, impersonator attacks, r/privacytoolsio top mod mass brigading his 200K strong subreddit to sitewide ban me, anonymous haters attacking you all the time passively via sockpuppets, and you stand strong, alone. I also mod c/privacy and c/technology besides my r/privatelife and c/privatelife.

I do a lot of work, so think before saying people do nothing. It comes off as beyond snarky and very loaded.

Do not defend corporate tools like EFF. It is all smoke and mirrors, and since you say I do nothing, if I were a multi million dollar mogul, I would be doing a lot of things, more than these people will ever do.

@Zerush@lemmy.ml
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2urte bat

This is what the user can do, use software and services that do not use these spying techniques, but this is efficient in the first line when a large part of the users is aware of this problem, this should be the main task. We all here use Lemmy, Raddle, Diaspora, Mastodon, Friendica, and others to communicate, using decentralized networks, all kinds of extensions, front ends, and VPNs to avoid this surveillance.

All of this would not be necessary, if this surveillance and censorship did not exist on the Internet. But as I said before, this, apart from initiatives by consumer associations and legislators, requires the activity of the user himself who boycotts companies that use these criminal techniques, which has even expanded into the OpenSource field, since Big Tech has gotten involved. also there widely.

With the use of the Smartphone things have even worsened, to which almost all OS are directly controlled by Google, MS and Apple, if you cannot root and install a distro, such as LineageOS or similar. There is also no use in using decentralized networks, since the same OS is controlling us.

Among the users here all this is mainly well known, but this should also be spread among those who use shit like Facebook, WhatsApp, Instagram and the like massively, unaware of having become simple raw material to enrich the oligopolies.

The initiatives are underway with increasing force, but there is still a long way to go and a lot of common sense among users, this must be transmitted by all of us who can, starting with our children, family and friends. I do at least.

CHEF-KOCH
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1urte bat

Yeah I see, the thing is that the average user cannot see any difference between spying techniques, legitimate telemetry or is simply not aware of some alternatives. You cannot expect everyone to research stuff like we do and some people are cheap that following influencer, and they usually use TikTok, Facebook etc.

I fully agree with you that the main priority must be to make people aware of things, this is what some organizations doing, since years, persistently and often without any profit. But you cannot expect someone to fight, giving his time and money for absolute nothing, so there is a relationship between people and organizations fighting for us because they simply need support and donations to establish changes on a bigger scale and this requires media attention and lots of money. My opinion here is that we should first support such things because you can use apps all day you want, it does not change the law and if such apps are declared illegal then your effort is useless or only a workaround.

I do not think the web is broken, we have here some very good people which shows that the web itself is not an issue, I think most people here come to an agreement that Big Tech is the real threat to free speech, surveillance and stuff that directly benefits themselves instead of all of us - which is the web. I think the web is like security, a concept which you constantly need to work on, together to make the idea reality.

@Zerush@lemmy.ml
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1urte bat

Agree with you. Naturally developers and companies do not work for love, but they also have to pay their bills, especially if it is a service that needs a certain infrastructure, servers, etc. But there are many other possibilities to earn money that do not put the privacy and security of the user at risk. It is no longer a lack of privacy if your personal data circulates on the network, but this is a serious security risk, since once these data are sold to who knows, there is no possible control as they are treated or protected. It is not the first time that hundreds of thousands of personal data have been leaked from FB, Google and others, including banking and medical data. This is the underlying problem, not just that Google reads your Gmail.

Halce
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0urte bat

You still run into the problem of something like DigitalOcean/OVH becoming the centralised AWS…

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