Pretty much everyone I see is on lemmy.ml. Why arenāt people moving to other instances? I see thisproblems on Matrix too.
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I signed up for this instance because:
However, as you can already see, Iām not limiting myself to posting on this instance. The Local/All filters in Communities do a nice job of making other instances conveniently accessible, but of course there arenāt many that are popular enough to rank highly on that list, or have a unique topic that I have an interest in.
The same admins listed the wolfballs lemmy 4th on their join-lemmy.org websiteā¦
Yes. It was the 4th most popular instance.
second post on their start page right now is praising elliot rodger. Also it has literal Neo Nazi users like https://wolfballs.com/u/charliebrownau
You think itās a good instance to put on your projects onboarding site?
I donāt think itās a good instance. I certainly donāt think itās a good community, and I see that as an inevitable result of its existence (āleft-wingā people looking to avoid redditās censorship have two large lemmy instances for their interests, so almost none will have a want or need to go to wolfballs to counter out the āright-wingā people who are looking to avoid redditās other censorship and donāt have a designated instance). Theoretically it could be neutral, but itās userbase simply wonāt be. Thatās how āfree-speech extremismā works online; only a few idealists and a heap of people no-one cares to hear need those places, so they become its target audience.
I do think the instance is fine to have on that site.
The Lemmy software isnāt created as an exclusive space for Marxist-Leninism, or leftism (unlike the two largest instances). Itās a self-hostable solution. And Iād personally rather the kind of people who would choose to post there see that thereās a place that caters to their views over there rather than mistakenly think they need to create a place for themselves on the other instances, especially smaller ones more vulnerable to flooding.
Furthermore, the more developers (such as their admin) who feel welcome in the project and can act in a constructive way, the better the code gets. Their admin made a post saying they would upstream any useful features they develop
(although I havenāt checked to see if they did)they have, see replies.So what if itās there? Whatās the actual problem with it being listed there?
You make arguments for collaborating with Nazis here. I donāt feel comfortable with that. Would you argue the same positions if it was a āpedophile-friendlyā or outright pro-pedophile instance? I really ask you to question your beliefs here.
I think there is a distinction. Itās not a ānazi instanceā, itās an instance with a couple of nazis using it and tolerated by it. The site ideology is best characterized as āUS Libertarianā, the point being that the admin isnāt a Nazi, and their āpro-[personal] freedomā beliefs donāt conflict with the software project and its goal, even if they conflict with me. They can constructively collaborate for mutual benefit. We both hate ābig techā and want an alternative.
A āNazi instanceā and/or a āpedophile instanceā is a
grayer areacut off, as their goals are more antagonistic and promoting harm by nature rather than incidentally. Thatās where I see the benefits of collaboration less worth it and would have no issue rejecting them. And I recall the admins here saying something a little similar, that fascist instances wouldnāt be advertized there.It isnāt a comfortable decision, but I am able to put aside ideals to work against a massive common enemy. When I read āworkers of the world, uniteā, I realize it didnāt say āworkers who I like, uniteā. If a liberal or a US libertarian wants to join an environmental protest or action, good. If collaboration is a pragmatically effective way towards improving conditions and reaching goals, my idealism of purity isnāt helpful. Small FOSS projects need all the help they can get against a multi-national capitalist-funded website worth multiple billion dollars.
WTF, at some point you have to stand up against shit that is way wrong, and those types of instances are waaaaaay past the gray area.
Iām not saying they arenāt revolting or abhorrent or wrong. Of course they are. What I meant (and admittedly poorly worded) was thatās where I draw the boundary of where their beliefs will make me refuse to cooperate for mutual benefit.
Oh, thanks for clarifying.
if you tolerate nazis, your a nazi supporter in my book
They tolerate communists too, are they a communist supporter in your book?
also take a look at my user, I am very opposed to nazis and you can guess my opinion of communism
I fucking hope they are, but toleration of nazis in any space whatsoever is completely unacceptable.
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Damn, that new post is a brave move. Iām not surprised by the mini-essays youāre receiving from a few people.
Itās an interesting dilemma that I think explains a major difference in libertarian socialism and US libertarianism (āright libertariansā) behaviors (warning: over-simplification!): extreme personal freedom can come at a cost to everyoneās collective freedom if the person/people want to oppress others. Itās hard to resolve that without compromising liberty, especially with more abstract things like speech which obviously have power but arenāt really comparable with physical violence, and especially in a culture like USAās that ostensibly values individualism and freedom as core virtues. Thatās the reason Iām surprised that post has a positive vote count.
Like I said in the post before, weāre in an unfortunate situation where most of the people who seek free speech are seeking it because theyāre banned from other places, rather than by virtue of valuing freedom for all. Of course I donāt need to explain the massive banning of speech on commercial platforms like Facebook/Twitter/Reddit/YouTube that need to keep a good reputation in order to maximize profit (and are ultimately beholden to US government interests that arenāt really open to change). But then you have alt-platforms, like Gab, Parlor, (most/all of) Mastodon, lemmy.ml and similar who allow some alternative and even radical ideas but are definitely not free speech either, even the ones that use it as a marketing point.
So, unless someone values free speech without a personal stake (such as being constantly banned), theyāre going to be the people those places reject, which in my experience on loosely-moderated forums is uncivil nazis, open pedophiles and āschizophrenicsā (non-technical term used for any obsessive people who spam forums with their obsession to the point were they disrupt conversation and arenāt welcome, usually with a rambling style seen in the writings of people with schizophrenia). Basically, the people who are anti-social to the point of mass rejection even among radical groups.
Which is unfortunate because by being one of the few places to allow neutral free speech, itās guaranteed that place will mostly be used by the people who most of society donāt want to hear. It would be pretty nice to have some popular melting pots where everyone can be truly sincere and honest and civilly approach sensitive topics, but itās pretty hard to get that when most people are comfortable where they are and donāt want to regularly see people arguing views they consider abhorrent and shocking.
And, on a second note, thank you for upstreaming code improvement! Having done that in other projects, I realize itās an extra effort that often seems thankless, but it does feel good to see those changes improving more than just one site.
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from what I see, Lemmy is still too small to be a full ānetworkā, itās just a flagship instance with some satellite instances around it.
We need to help it grow in order for proper decentralised network to form.
But I donāt see many people promoting it. About a year ago I made a draft for Wikipedia article about Lemmy, but I did not find much to write about. Recently I checked how it is doing, and I saw that apparently people made some questionable additions to the draft and submitted it for review. Submission got rejected, reason being that Lemmy is not ānotableā enough, as in, practically no independent information sources talk about it or even mention it. Of course I went to search the internet in hopes of proving this wrong, but I was not successful. Apparently promotion of Lemmy and rest of the Fediverse is something that is not being done as much as I would have wanted.
There should probably be some Fediverse Promoting Guide that would list effective means of spreading the word about what Fediverse is and why people should use it.
spoiler
Would someone please make a Fediverse Promoting Guide?
When I first joined mastodon, I was on mastodon.social - I wasnāt used to twitter enough for mastodon to feel familiar, having to research and pick an instance seemed like an extra stress, and I appreciated having a ādefaultā option.
I wouldnāt be surprised if Lemmy.ml stays relatively big for a while, but I do see a lot of new instances starting and Iām optimistic the network will become more diverse.
Hello from lemmygrad.ml :D When I was looking, the options were hexbear, lemmy, and lemmygrad. Hexbear didnāt look like it was federating, and I wanted that in any instance I picked, so I landed on lemmygrad. I chose lemmygrad because a decent chunk of my activity is political in nature. If I wasnāt as political, lemmy would probably be a better choice.
I think itās mainly because people lack a reason to do so.
I crosscomment here:
It could be weird but here[1] it seems that people who doesnāt understand federation at first use to associate the software name with the instance name.
You speak about āmoving to Pixelfedā and they look and use Pixelfed.social at first.
I think that could also have happenned with Lemmy.
1- my environment
Wellā¦my journey in the fediverse was differentā¦
Began in an instance of Pleroma from one day to another (although for me Pleroma is the most decentralized platform of fediverse). And even used a lot an instance of pixelfed that enter to maintainable state, and then closedā¦and now Iām on the main. Even the owners of the pleroma instance I was on, told me, ālearn to go to the biggest instances that probably would last much longerā
Which instances did you use?
There are several which were pretty stable and are still ongoing.
These were even small instances and not main ones.
Don t remember the pixelfed I used. Think it was pixfed or something like that. Pleroma was hatthieves
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I joined Lemmy before federation worked, which is why I joined the āflagshipā instance. In addition, other instances are often more localised, theme-specific or very political (Lemmygrad, Wolfballs). And some instances are poorly guarded outposts via which the troll incursions are coming in. Mind you, the admins there are probably good people but it does do little good to the name of those instances (and they risk defederation). Maybe if Lemmy as a whole grows people might successfully spread, but for now most would stick to the bigger instances with the most topics and the best moderation.
Edit: I interpreted the question as specific to Lemmy, even though the topic is in /c/fediverse.
Arenāt most of the users from lemmygrad now? At any rate, for me lemmy feels like the best fit, there is no instance that better suits my interests, nor for my region.
lemmy.ml is still bigger overall, but lemmygrad is more active over the last month
update, 10 months later
Probably due to the sudden influx of GenZedong users after their subreddit got quarantined.
If I recall correctly, (and I could be wrong about this) early Mastodon had somewhat of a similar issue, with the large majority of users centralized on mastodon.social. As time goes on, I imagine more instances will pop up. I honestly think some more generalized instances will do wonders for this, but I know this is a heretical opinion on the Fediverse, where people want a three-person instance for Amstrad programmers and Magic-the-Gathering-enthusiasts named Larry from Ohio.
I have not seen too much activity from your here since the last months.
Iāve been pretty busy with non-online things lately
Only one Iād heard of tbh
The idea that youāre missing out? Its probably a good issue to have when things are reasonably small. Regarding the issue of a music community on lemmy ml - should this be on lemmy.ml at all? The admins have disowned āflagshipā and have clearly stated the site to be leftist/foss and have also restricted logins. Music should be maintained elsewhere on a gen pop instance like cough sopuli.
When it comes to choosing an instance I think sopuli loses a bit in translation, but when I found out sopuli means *lemming * in english it made sense. Also visiting the site it looks like there are a lot of finnish posts = finnish only server when in reality these are posted to the /suomi finnish community. Long short thats why I set up https://sopuli.xyz/c/classicalbums there and will be posting to /c/music.
I think domain names matter to a point. One reason mastodon.art grew big I think is it declares its intent in the domain.
Lastly one of the strengths of landing on another instance if you are not interested in leftist/foss content it doesnt appear in your local timeline, but thanks to lemmys format you can easily subscribe/find/enage if you wish - better than landing on the wrong mastodon instance.
Yeah, without a doubt. Domain names are a key aspect of any instance, and their āqualityā greatly influences the retention rate. At least thatās what Iāve always felt on the Fediverse. Instances with great domain names are more likely to get used than the others.
I donāt care to. Iām here to have a good time, learn different perspectives and have some debate.
If lemmy.ml goes down the toilet like Reddit and Ruqqus though, itās a big +1 that itās federated and I wonāt have to ditch the platform
IDK what you talking about Iāve used like 2 lmao. Im here from the Marxist Leninist lemmy
I use Beehaw some, but honestly I donāt think federation is all that useful for this kind of site vs self hostable regular link aggregator software. Do I really want lemmy.mlās music community and 3 other instancesā music communities, all of which being held up by one or two posters each? Not really. And at the moment, lemmy.ml has the only community sizable enough for regular usage.
I think itās alright. It removes the possibility for name squatting and monopolizing on a community name, any instance can make their own version if they donāt like the moderation. But I think some communities will tend to be more active over time than others. You could see a community about music on lemmy, but maybe the most active community for backpacking happens to be on another instance. As long as users are spread out, it will work this way.
edit: I think a good example is how communist/marxist communities are more active on lemmygrad. It helps if an instance is tailored to a particular topic, like mander.xyz is for biology, collapse.cat is for climate change, etc
How to deal with duplicate communities within and across instances has been an ongoing concern.
For me this is the most appropriate instance as far as I can tell. The other instances mostly seem to be run for countries in which I do not live or for interests which I am not especially interested in