trash
fedilink
@BlackLotus@lemmy.ml
link
fedilink
22
edit-2
4 hilabete

Because this place is based and people here can read. Illiteracy is the best weapon of anti-communists because if people can’t read, they often can’t educate themselves that communism is the obviously better system.

@goosefetisch@lemmy.ml
creator
link
fedilink
-204 hilabete

I’m an anarcho-syndicalist (or maybe an anarcho-communist, who cares), and I came to a very, very, very anti-authorotarian mindset not because of “illiteracy” but because I read anarchist literature regarding authority, fascism and also read news regarding china (and how every month or so they are bound to do something draconian).

Also, here’s an unrelated link to a communist country that executed teachers and only taught very basic literacy.

@BlackLotus@lemmy.ml
link
fedilink
254 hilabete

No one considers Pol Pot a communist, but go hard at revealing your obviously propagandized mind.

@goosefetisch@lemmy.ml
creator
link
fedilink
-124 hilabete

In any case, He certainly had a strong relationship with China.

Many claimed he deviated from orthodox Marxism–Leninism, but China backed his government as a bulwark against Soviet influence in Southeast Asia.

Feel free to have a skim through the Wikipedia article yourself.

Muad'Dibber
link
fedilink
19
edit-2
4 hilabete

You realize also that socialist Vietnam fought a war against Pol Pot right?

In any case, He certainly had a strong relationship with China.

How does this prove Pol Pot was a communist though?

@goosefetisch@lemmy.ml
creator
link
fedilink
-164 hilabete

It doesn’t, but it proves that communists are willing to work with whatever the fuck he was.

It proves China at the time had this particular diplomatic tie with Cambodia. Nothing more, nothing less. You’re extrapolating a single event in history to tie into a narrative – any academic historian doing that would be asked for their credentials.

But I don’t blame you for this, because the history of communism is the only place where this is not only regularly done in an academic setting, but encouraged. And you would be considered a revisionist if you offered any other alternative even when supported by facts (such as the opening of the USSR records).

After the fledgling PRC entered a war (more of a border skirmish) with Vietnam because of Cambodia, they realised it was the wrong path to sign defensive pacts with everyone. They radically changed their position and to this day refuse to sign defensive pacts with any other country.

@goosefetisch@lemmy.ml
creator
link
fedilink
-134 hilabete

Fair enough, I shouldn’t extrapolate - my bad.

But at the very least it proves how easy it is for the meaning of “communist” to be twisted. Even the Nazi’s called themselves “national socialists” not because they had any remotely socialist policies but because it was popular. Anyone can start and lead a “communist” revolution and then pull a switchreoo at the last moment, and because communism typically involves a “dictatorship of the proletariat” this is exceedingly easy to do.

To talk further on the topic of education, I agree that communism is probably too underrepresented - but so is anarchism. People tended to loose interest with the communist manifesto after the gulags started; the only people who supported state communism post 1950’s was powergrabbing revolutionaries, and uneducated workers who were smart enough to see its advantages but not enough to see its immense drawbacks.

That’s why we study those systems. We (marxists) didn’t come to realise the nazis were not socialists out of nowhere, we saw what they said about their ideology, how they conducted it, what their class character was for society (the most important criteria), etc.

That’s why we uphold the USSR, the PRC, the DPRK… but not Nazi Germany or Pol Pot’s Cambodia. Because after studying them in and out (through our own framework, as anyone does) we see how they operated and still operate.

People tended to loose interest with the communist manifesto after the gulags started

Only in the imperialist core (the west). During the 20th century, even after Stalin’s death, we saw Cuba, Burkina Faso, Chile, probably others I’m not remembering right now…

This is also the time of the Cold War, where our information in this core was filtered through the “leader of the free world”, the United States. And to this day when you find people that lived through it on this side, they will tell you (I’m not joking) that the United States is a champion of human rights and liberty. Even in Europe.

The gulag system (an acronym for the ministry of justice and corrections) was started under the Tsar so if we want to use them on a chart you won’t have a single data point but many. That’s why I picked Stalin’s death instead.

@goosefetisch@lemmy.ml
creator
link
fedilink
-154 hilabete

That’s why we study those systems. We (marxists) didn’t come to realise the nazis were not socialists out of nowhere, we saw what they said about their ideology, how they conducted it, what their class character was for society (the most important criteria), etc.

Right… that makes sense, though in my view it shouldn’t take an expert to spot an overt fascist.

That’s why we uphold the USSR, the PRC, the DPRK… but not Nazi Germany or Pol Pot’s Cambodia. Because after studying them in and out (through our own framework, as anyone does) we see how they operated and still operate.

Hold up, doesn’t the DPRK have forced labour camps? Didn’t they once sentence a western tourist to hard labour for stealing a poster? Again I’m not trying to say the west has never imprisoned people for dumb reasons, but forced labour??? Also China is hardly communist these days, and if I’m frank I feel like they align more closely with 1935 Nazi Germany than any kind of proletariat utopia.

Only in the imperialist core (the west). During the 20th century, even after Stalin’s death, we saw Cuba, Burkina Faso, Chile, probably others I’m not remembering right now…

Agreed, sorry I should have been more clear. Still, I wonder how many of those revolutions weren’t a “yay let’s implement a communist utopia” but instead a “hey lets trick the people into supporting our communist revolution”.

This is also the time of the Cold War, where our information in this core was filtered through the “leader of the free world”, the United States. And to this day when you find people that lived through it on this side, they will tell you (I’m not joking) that the United States is a champion of human rights and liberty. Even in Europe.

Yeah, it’s a little funny how often people will talk about how the US is some kind of gracious bringer of democracy. Maybe it started after their help in WW2?

Still, I think it’s fair to argue that the US is at least no worse than China or Russia.

@CriticalResist8@lemmygrad.ml
link
fedilink
14
edit-2
4 hilabete

forced labour

Forced labour has existed and exists in virtually all prison systems to this day. It existed in Makhnovia, it existed in Revolutionary Catalonia too. It’s a historical phenomenon and while it does offend our modern sensibilities for various (correct) reasons, it’s a more complicated topic than it appears.

But I wouldn’t call them forced labour camps. What is the difference between a camp and a prison? I highly recommend this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BO83Ig-E8E.

Maybe it started after their help in WW2?

During WW2, a ceasefire of sorts was declared from the US and their European, imperialist allies towards the Soviet Union.

It’s well known that the European powers hated the USSR ever since the October Revolution, and so they expected to let Hitler fight against them. This would weaken both countries and Europe expected they could just swoop in and finally destroy both.

This is not what happened obviously, as Hitler went west first, and the USSR fought Germany on their own.

During the war, you would see propaganda posters like these :

And yet right after the war, communications “broke down” between the two countries? No, the United States never hid who they were. This truce with the Soviet Union was merely temporary and enacted for various reasons. What we call the Cold War was effectively just the revival of anti-communist tensions that started in 1917.

The USA then started lending public money to European countries for rebuilding, known as the Marshall Program. The catch was that this money could only be used to buy American. And the USSR was not allowed to receive this help or any help.

This is how the United States finally brought itself to the status of superpower and was able to dictate history, policy, and diplomacy. That’s why some people today are feeling grateful to the USA (despite not living there or having ever lived there) and they don’t really even know why.

I think it’s fair to argue that the US is at least no worse than China or Russia.

Even if everything we heard about Russia and China was absolutely true, if the death tolls were true, if the atrocity propaganda was true, if the human rights violation were all true, and even if we only counted the crimes of the US from the time the PRC has existed (and not for the whole 276 years of the USA), the US would still rack up a higher death and crime toll than both China and Russia combined.

Catraism-Stalinism
banned
link
fedilink
84 hilabete

1935 Nazi Germany

you can hate china, but doing this is just asking to be wrong

krolden
link
fedilink
04 hilabete

As a fellow syndicalist, stop with posts like this. They do no good for anyone and just gain traction because tankies love dunking on anarchists, especially when most of your points are half baked at best. Life in China is better under the CCP but no I still don’t like them or NATO powers strangling the planet.

Catraism-Stalinism
banned
link
fedilink
94 hilabete

I’m an anarcho-syndicalist

you know, this is starting to make a lot of sense

☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆
link
fedilink
204 hilabete

Not only has the NATO been expanding eastwards, it also invaded and destroyed multiple countries during that time in wars of aggression. Yugoslavia, Syria, and Libya being prime examples. NATO is also currently backing a literal genocide in Yemen.

The collapse of USSR was absolutely a disaster, and the quality of life in the vast majority of post Soviet republics never recovered to the standard of living people had during USSR. Not only that, but collapse USSR led to instability across Eurasia and many consequent wars with countless people dying. Anybody arguing that the collapse of USSR was anything but a disaster is utterly historically illiterate. Here’s just one example for you:

Heart diseases account for 56.7% of total deaths, with about 30% involving people still of working age. Mortality among Russian men rose by 60% since 1991, four to five times higher than in Europe.

and here’s what people who actually lived in USSR have to say:

Taiwan is part of China. This is a well documented fact, and Taiwan’s legal standing is not in question. This is the position held by the UN, and it’s the fundamental basis for having diplomatic relations between US and China per Potsdam Proclamation that was signed 77 years ago between China, the US & the UK. This position has never officially changed.

The whole narrative of China oppressing Uyghurs has little basis and in fact standard of living in Xinjiang has been steadily improving. All the evidence for these supposed concentration camps comes from a religious fanatic by the name of Adrian Zenz who is not in any way credible source on anything.

The millions of Uyghurs being supposedly imprisoned story is based on two highly dubious “studies.”. CHRD states that it interviewed dozens of ethnic Uyghurs in the course of its study, but their enormous estimate was ultimately based on interviews with exactly eight Uyghur individuals. Based on this absurdly small sample of research subjects in an area whose total population is 20 million, CHRD “extrapolated estimates” that “at least 10% of villagers […] are being detained in re-education detention camps, and 20% are being forced to attend day/evening re-education camps in the villages or townships, totaling 30% in both types of camps.”

The reality of China is that China hasn’t been at war for past 70 years, and that quality of life in China continues to steadily improve and the government is actively working on doing things like eliminating poverty, creating public infrastructure, providing healthcare, housing, food, and education for all citizens. Chinese government practically eliminated poverty, and in fact China is the only place in a world where any meaningful poverty reduction is happening. If we take China out of the equation poverty actually increased in real terms:

If we take just one country, China, out of the global poverty equation, then even under the $1.90 poverty standard we find that the extreme poverty headcount is the exact same as it was in 1981.

The $1.90/day (2011 PPP) line is not an adequate or in any way satisfactory level of consumption; it is explicitly an extreme measure. Some analysts suggest that around $7.40/day is the minimum necessary to achieve good nutrition and normal life expectancy, while others propose we use the US poverty line, which is $15.

China also massively invests in infrastructure. They used more concrete in 3 years than US in all of 20th century, they built 27,000km of high speed rail in a decade.

90% of families in the country own their home, giving China one of the highest home ownership rates in the world. What’s more is that 80% of these homes are owned outright, without mortgages or any other leans. Real wage (i.e. the wage adjusted for the prices you pay) has gone up 4x in the past 25 years, more than any other country. This is staggering considering it’s the most populous country on the planet. Social mobility happens to be very high in China as well.

moist-leninist
link
fedilink
184 hilabete

This might surprise you but:

  • USSR = good
  • Western bloc = bad

Also, no, both sides not bad. One side good. One side bad. USSR good.

Can you fuck off back to Reddit please

You alone are proof that re-education is going to be necessary during or after the revolution

RedFortress
link
fedilink
174 hilabete

Are we allowing posts like these now?

ᴅʀᴜᴜɴᴀ
link
fedilink
134 hilabete

Three letter agencies have infiltrated lemmy already. The battle to prevail would be glorious comrades 🔥🖤

non-diegetic screams
link
fedilink
124 hilabete

Fr this is just an anticommunist gish gallop

Marxism-Fennekinism
link
fedilink
17
edit-2
4 hilabete
  1. It’s called the CPC.

  2. A lot of us support both, yes. Resources on both why that is and debunks to pretty much everything you’ve mentioned is littered all over this instance. Probably seen this link getting dropped?

  3. Dude, it’s the fediverse. Use another instance that better suits your worldview if you’re this bothered by the politics here, don’t try to shame and change the existing userbase of an instance for having different political opinions as you. That’s the whole damn point of Lemmy!

Catraism-Stalinism
banned
link
fedilink
104 hilabete

like seriously, I am tired of literally saying the same like 5 things all the goddamn time.

@OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml
link
fedilink
-24 hilabete

What sort of content would you like to see?

Catraism-Stalinism
banned
link
fedilink
124 hilabete

anything that shows class consciousness. Asking for you to avoid political talks for the past 100 years would be disingenuous.

@graphito@lemmy.ml
link
fedilink
14 hilabete

Dude, it’s the fediverse. Use another instance that better suits your worldview if you’re this bothered by the opinions here, don’t try to shame and change the existing userbase of an instance for having different political opinions as you.

I’m sorry to chime in but isn’t lemmygrad supposed to be the instance for communists?

Marxism-Fennekinism
link
fedilink
24 hilabete

Lemmy.ml is also explicitly leftist. Look at the page title on the homepage. And no it’s not the default instance, there isn’t one. If you want centrist or right wing, there are other instances.

WiνΛlem OrtΛνíz
link
fedilink
-84 hilabete

Really the problem is you don’t want to acknowledge the difference between diverging political views and agressiveness/insults/fanaticism.

You never say anything when people of your “political opinion” insult others, or call for brigading. So you let the harrasment and sealioning go on and seem happy with that. Maybe do something about it before complaining that other people complain here ?

Because we do. Nice to have a break from the boring western standard and all its brain worms.

Amicese
link
fedilink
154 hilabete

Worst mistake of my life reading this post…

@Stoned_Ape@lemmy.ml
link
fedilink
114 hilabete

using the Mercator projection to argue how Russia is bigger than Ukraine.

Stopped reading right there. Either troll or idiot.

Marxism-Fennekinism
link
fedilink
134 hilabete

What does that even mean? What does that have to do with fucking anything?

@Stoned_Ape@lemmy.ml
link
fedilink
84 hilabete

Mercator is a kind of a map projection. It can skew the visual representation of the actual size of a country. Northern/southern regions appear stretched, while equatorial regions appear comparatively smaller. For example, the continent Africa is way bigger than this map projection suggest. Also, the nothern parts of Russia are stretched, so Russia is smaller than it appears.

Still, Russia is 28 times bigger in actual square kilometers. 28 fucking times.

Thinking about this… if you know about the mercator projection (which the user at least now of, and what it means), I’m quite sure you’re not dumb enough to not realize that Russia is 28 times bigger. So, honestly… it’s 100% a troll.

Don’t feed the troll.

Marxism-Fennekinism
link
fedilink
9
edit-2
4 hilabete

I know. I’ve just never actually seen anyone using map projections as propaganda before (that post they linked to and accused of doing so is the stretch of the century, like, do you expect them to mail you a 3D globe? It’s clear they just pulled the default maps off Wikipedia because convenience.)

I imagine it was done, and would have worked in, like, the 18th century when 90% of the population couldn’t afford to read books, but we’re in the age of the internet when you can just look up the actual fucking land area of any country.

@graphito@lemmy.ml
link
fedilink
12
edit-2
4 hilabete

given Lemmy niche nature so far, it attracts those who was banned elsewhere.

Yes, many extreme posts get dozens of upvotes but on the scale of internet this is nothing. One by one, new users are going to dilute toxic crowd and put them on the backrows where they usually reside.

Catraism-Stalinism
banned
link
fedilink
-54 hilabete

We are growing at a faster rate than lemmy, have been for months now.

We are the new normal.

Soviet Snake
link
fedilink
114 hilabete

Ding ding ding, found a glowie.

Wow, the CIA sure is pretty fast to get some shills to shit on any communist group bigger than 2000 people.

☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆
link
fedilink
134 hilabete

Glowies are having such a hard time here. They’re so used to being able to just drop some tropes and get a brigade to jump in to defend them. It’s hilarious to watch them actually having to argue their point with people who are educated on the subject.

WiνΛlem OrtΛνíz
link
fedilink
24 hilabete

Sadly that’s great documentation.

Catraism-Stalinism
banned
link
fedilink
84 hilabete

Because the USSR is the best country ever, and the PRC is the best modern country

Catraism-Stalinism
banned
link
fedilink
74 hilabete

Comrades! I comment for the algorithm, may more of us see this insanity and come to our aid!

@goosefetisch I might be just too sick of russian propaganda, but my only reaction when I read threads you’ve linked was: ban lemmygrad, ban insane commie “fans” and move on. Because when their messages start to be indistinguishable from propaganda, they are lost, and talking to them is just wasting time and nerves

Marxism-Fennekinism
link
fedilink
94 hilabete

I’m assuming you’re also one to screech about free speech.

@HiddenLayer5 you are free to say whatever you want, I am free to disagree with you or ignore you

ᴅʀᴜᴜɴᴀ
link
fedilink
64 hilabete

ban lemmygrad, ban insane commie “fans” and move on.

you are free to say whatever you want

Umm. You’re contradicting yourself there miss

Catraism-Stalinism
banned
link
fedilink
44 hilabete

“fans”

We have fans? Is this guy saying we are the fans? what is going on!

@goosefetisch Look at this https://lemmy.ml/post/417095/comment/251192. This person is lost to humanity if they’re doing it unironically. If it is irony, why bother

Marxism-Fennekinism
link
fedilink
24 hilabete

Anyone who expresses anything I disagree with is lost to humanity.

@HiddenLayer5 he is literally saying “I want Red Terror to happen again”

Catraism-Stalinism
banned
link
fedilink
04 hilabete

I’m half serious, half wanting to post my propaganda posters cause I’m bored.

A loosely moderated place to ask open ended questions

If your post is

  1. Open ended
  2. Not offensive
  3. Not regarding lemmy support (c/lemmy_support)
  4. not ad nauseam inducing (please make sure its a question that would be new to most members)

it’s welcome here!

  • 0 users online
  • 15 users / day
  • 55 users / week
  • 152 users / month
  • 519 users / 6 months
  • 8 subscribers
  • 1.07K Posts
  • 11.6K Comments
  • Modlog