only for Rian to ignore those and leave nothing to work with for the next one.
JJ choosing to ignore the second movie doesn’t mean “nothing was left”. Baring the bizarre casino, TLJ was the most interesting SW story since RotS. Episode IX could’ve been an amazing finale coming out of that, but JJ did what JJ always does and absolutely failed to deliver.
*Also, I feel it’s important to point out the “Mystery Box” was and is bullshit, lazy writing. Yes, it’s important to leave things in a story for the audience to wonder about and anticipate. That’s not a valid excuse to throw esoteric shit at the wall and call it a day. The audience doesn’t need to know where the plot is going, but the fucking writer should. JJ left Rian with hollow shell of “intrigue” with nothing substantial, got pissy when Rian did what he wanted with that, then shit out a boring finale trying to reverse everything back.
The Last Jedi wasn’t interesting. It was one piece of wasted potential after another.
We got what looked like the start of what could’ve been the best buddy friendship in The Force Awakens, only for The Last Jedi to completely ignore that potential.
It turned Finn into a coward, then forced a character he had no chemistry with onto him.
The casino arc was this attempt at rolling in some sort of… Message…? As if we don’t already know about neutral profiteers like The Banking Clan. And then it still only pays minor lip service to this message.
Captain Phasma was completely useless. Snoke was completely useless. Luke Skywalker could’ve been an interesting direction, but nothing was done with him and then he died after one cool moment.
It had scenes and direction that made absolutely no logical sense, even internally. Such as slow as shit bombers getting completely wasted when only one was actually needed. A complete lack in competent leadership causing a mutiny, which would’ve been interesting if it was meant that way, but it’s not. Deus Ex Rose dooming her comrades.
Really? What happened in TLJ that wasn’t already done in Star Wars? It felt like they just threw ESB and RoTJ into a blender and threw it onto the screen. Except they removed the point of all the plotines they copied from the other movies.
I know there’s a narrative about TLJ being interesting, but the biggest criticism from people that aren’t terminally online is that it was boring. And yeah, it was just a bunch of stuff we saw before with the point of the plotlines removed.
I’ll just reiterate my other reply since you did the same - your inability to see the potential of TLJ on it’s own merits says more about you than the movie.
Nothing new was set up for the grand finale. No new conflicts or threats to look forward to.
Compare with Empire Strikes Back. A bigger villain has been revealed. Han has been captured. Darth Vader is revealed to be Luke’s father. Romance between Han and Leia. Lots of exciting new threads for the final movie.
TLJ had nothing of that. When I went out of the theater I had no excitement at all for the next movie.
The resistance is on the backfoot, desperate for an answer.
Kylo is coming into his power as the big bad and the First Order is adjusting to the sudden power vacuum.
Rey is finally realizing her capability and is left to decide if she’ll follow the Jedi way or blaze her own path, still haunted by her unknown past.
Other force sensitives are awakening across the galaxy.
Leia is revealed as a force user (which obviously couldn’t be addressed after the death of Carrie Fisher, but that wasn’t a known change at the time of shooting).
Even a subpar writer could’ve done plenty with half of that, but JJ and Disney got scared and shit out the blandest finale possible.
Compare with Empire Strikes Back.
No. Stop comparing the new to the old, especially at such a minuscule, beat-for-beat level. Not only does that kill any possible innovation, it’s a nostalgia trap and exactly why VII and IX were so fucking boring. Nothing will replicate the feelings had watching beloved movies for the first time, and expecting anything to match that is just an excuse to be dismissive of it.
After Force Awakens I had the following questions:
Why did Luke leave a map to his hiding spot?
Who is Snoke?
Who are Rey’s parents? Why is she so good with the force?
Who are the Knights of Ren? Will they make an appearance in the next movie?
It doesn’t take much imagination how to make an exciting follow up with these open threads. TLJ decided that none of these threads matters and went in a completely different direction.
The resistance was not on their back foot, they were fucking dead. It was 30 some people and the Falcon by the end of TLJ.
Kylo makes a terrible villain for the big bad. He already lost to Rey in the first movie even if weakened. He failed to turn Rey with his big join me speech in TLJ, and he gets embarrassed by ghost Luke. There’s nothing scary about someone who’s been throwing temper tantrums for basically two entire movies. Secondly, there was now way he wasn’t going to end up being good, Disney wasn’t going to greenlight a conclusion with him being evil.
Rey made peace with her past and admitted it didn’t matter, there’s nothing to explore there without the retcon Rise did. She also had multiple defining moments of choosing the light, basing a movie on yet another time is stupid.
Other force sensitive people is a meaningless thing to base the conclusion of a trilogy on. Elmer Sleazebaggano son of Elan appearing and being the big good or bad out of nowhere is just as bad as Palpatine. You could do something with an established character becoming force sensitive, but they butchered that anyway.
Leia even if Fisher hadn’t passed couldn’t be the main plot. Sure she could be a source of help or counsel for Rey, but that’s about it. If Leia became the hero of the resistance like she was for the rebellion by using the force and welding a lightsaber it just begs the question why she didn’t bother at any point in the last 20 years before everyone was dead. It also doesn’t work with Disney’s need to sunset the established character is and bring out the new heroes of the galaxy.
It’s not about comparing the feelings of empire or the beat for beat replay. It’s about comparing the narrative and where it was at that point in the story. Empire left room for growth, there were new questions to answer, TLJ didn’t.
The rebels were scattered after Hoth, but most the ships were able to escape. This lets the following movie have the option of gathering on or off screen. TLJ left almost none alive, the next movie needs to invent new people.
The main characters were thoroughly beaten by the bad guy. This provides something for them to overcome in the next movie. TLJ ended with Rey succeeding, the first order is now 0-2 at being the big bad guy.
Luke had to process his father being Vader, Han needed rescue, and Leia wanted to rescue him. Rey, Poe, and Finn were all happily on the Falcon.
you had the seeds of romance in both. The problem with Reylo was Ren couldn’t be the big bad and the love interest or the movie just ends with him telling the first order to stop once he acknowledged his love. You also had Rose and Finn, but that was one sided as he was obsessed with Rey the whole movie.
It’s not about comparing the feelings of empire or the beat for beat replay. It’s about comparing the narrative and where it was at that point in the story.
Contradicting your own claim in the next sentence. A+. Thanks for proving my point.
And deliberately holding up the worst interpretation of how those plot lines could be developed isn’t meaningful. Might as well slap together a Chad-Soyjak meme and say you won.
The shot of the kid with the broom left me so hopeful for all the new things I thought were coming. All the retreading that Episode 9 did left me disappointed.
The resistance is on the backfoot, desperate for an answer.
This was done better in ESB.
Kylo is coming into his power as the big bad and the First Order is adjusting to the sudden power vacuum.
Who cares? We have no idea who Snoke was. Because of this there’s nothing to indicate Kylo Ren is doing anything different than Snoke would’ve done. There’s zero perceptible change because they didn’t bother to spend any time defining the First Order or Snoke.
Other force sensitives are awakening across the galaxy.
I always assume there’s other force users across the galaxy all of the time. I think you’re taking the things you see in a Star Wars movie to be 100% of the events that happen in that Galaxy. For those of us that take it as some of the more interesting stories coming from this massive galaxy of who knows how many people (trillions? quintiliions?) that scene is meaningless. Like, yeah that’s always happening, all of the time. I generally assume that there are many Jedi out there. The movie is calling itself “The Last Jedi” to present the galaxy as something narrow (which is stupid because Leia would be a Jedi FFS, just another thing they would need to fix later) just so you will think it’s interesting to broaden something presented to as being something narrow. It was never narrow, it was only TLJ that attempted to present Star Wars as something narrow. it was always broad, nothing new happened when they suggested it was broader than only TLJ presented it to be earlier in the movie.
Stop comparing the new to the old, especially at such a minuscule, beat-for-beat level.
Why wouldn’t we? First of all TLJ is just ESB and RoTJ thrown into a blender with the point of all of the plot lines they re-hashed removed. Benicio Del Tor is Lando. Kylo Ren kills the old evil guy like Darth Vader did. They have to blow up a super laser. There’s AT ATs walking across a white plain. Ah, but it’s different because TLJ’s version of Lando doesn’t learn anything? It’s different because Kylo Ren doesn’t change? It’s different because they fail to blow up the super laser? It’s different because the AT ATs are walking on salt instead of snow? Sorry, but it’s the same kinda shit just without any point to it. Which makes it boring to anyone familiar with the movies it’s clumsily copy and pasting from.
RoS is way more interesting than TLJ. There’s at least a point to it, at least it wasn’t just blindly copy and pasting things from better movies without even understanding them.
JJ choosing to ignore the second movie doesn’t mean “nothing was left”. Baring the bizarre casino, TLJ was the most interesting SW story since RotS. Episode IX could’ve been an amazing finale coming out of that, but JJ did what JJ always does and absolutely failed to deliver.
*Also, I feel it’s important to point out the “Mystery Box” was and is bullshit, lazy writing. Yes, it’s important to leave things in a story for the audience to wonder about and anticipate. That’s not a valid excuse to throw esoteric shit at the wall and call it a day. The audience doesn’t need to know where the plot is going, but the fucking writer should. JJ left Rian with hollow shell of “intrigue” with nothing substantial, got pissy when Rian did what he wanted with that, then shit out a boring finale trying to reverse everything back.
The Last Jedi wasn’t interesting. It was one piece of wasted potential after another.
We got what looked like the start of what could’ve been the best buddy friendship in The Force Awakens, only for The Last Jedi to completely ignore that potential.
It turned Finn into a coward, then forced a character he had no chemistry with onto him.
The casino arc was this attempt at rolling in some sort of… Message…? As if we don’t already know about neutral profiteers like The Banking Clan. And then it still only pays minor lip service to this message.
Captain Phasma was completely useless. Snoke was completely useless. Luke Skywalker could’ve been an interesting direction, but nothing was done with him and then he died after one cool moment.
It had scenes and direction that made absolutely no logical sense, even internally. Such as slow as shit bombers getting completely wasted when only one was actually needed. A complete lack in competent leadership causing a mutiny, which would’ve been interesting if it was meant that way, but it’s not. Deus Ex Rose dooming her comrades.
Really? What happened in TLJ that wasn’t already done in Star Wars? It felt like they just threw ESB and RoTJ into a blender and threw it onto the screen. Except they removed the point of all the plotines they copied from the other movies.
I know there’s a narrative about TLJ being interesting, but the biggest criticism from people that aren’t terminally online is that it was boring. And yeah, it was just a bunch of stuff we saw before with the point of the plotlines removed.
I’ll just reiterate my other reply since you did the same - your inability to see the potential of TLJ on it’s own merits says more about you than the movie.
What was set up for the last movie?
Nothing new was set up for the grand finale. No new conflicts or threats to look forward to.
Compare with Empire Strikes Back. A bigger villain has been revealed. Han has been captured. Darth Vader is revealed to be Luke’s father. Romance between Han and Leia. Lots of exciting new threads for the final movie.
TLJ had nothing of that. When I went out of the theater I had no excitement at all for the next movie.
Right, “nothing”.
Even a subpar writer could’ve done plenty with half of that, but JJ and Disney got scared and shit out the blandest finale possible.
No. Stop comparing the new to the old, especially at such a minuscule, beat-for-beat level. Not only does that kill any possible innovation, it’s a nostalgia trap and exactly why VII and IX were so fucking boring. Nothing will replicate the feelings had watching beloved movies for the first time, and expecting anything to match that is just an excuse to be dismissive of it.
Why? The sequel trilogy is doing itself all the time. So why shouldn’t we?
Aren’t these also Star Wars movies? Set in the Star Wars universe?
After Force Awakens I had the following questions:
It doesn’t take much imagination how to make an exciting follow up with these open threads. TLJ decided that none of these threads matters and went in a completely different direction.
The only question I had after TLJ was:
Much weaker way to build up for the grand finale.
Answered
Answered
Answered
Yeah, TLJ totally ignored it all 🙄
And I already addressed a handful of the threads left by TLJ, so I won’t repeat myself.
The resistance was not on their back foot, they were fucking dead. It was 30 some people and the Falcon by the end of TLJ.
Kylo makes a terrible villain for the big bad. He already lost to Rey in the first movie even if weakened. He failed to turn Rey with his big join me speech in TLJ, and he gets embarrassed by ghost Luke. There’s nothing scary about someone who’s been throwing temper tantrums for basically two entire movies. Secondly, there was now way he wasn’t going to end up being good, Disney wasn’t going to greenlight a conclusion with him being evil.
Rey made peace with her past and admitted it didn’t matter, there’s nothing to explore there without the retcon Rise did. She also had multiple defining moments of choosing the light, basing a movie on yet another time is stupid.
Other force sensitive people is a meaningless thing to base the conclusion of a trilogy on. Elmer Sleazebaggano son of Elan appearing and being the big good or bad out of nowhere is just as bad as Palpatine. You could do something with an established character becoming force sensitive, but they butchered that anyway.
Leia even if Fisher hadn’t passed couldn’t be the main plot. Sure she could be a source of help or counsel for Rey, but that’s about it. If Leia became the hero of the resistance like she was for the rebellion by using the force and welding a lightsaber it just begs the question why she didn’t bother at any point in the last 20 years before everyone was dead. It also doesn’t work with Disney’s need to sunset the established character is and bring out the new heroes of the galaxy.
It’s not about comparing the feelings of empire or the beat for beat replay. It’s about comparing the narrative and where it was at that point in the story. Empire left room for growth, there were new questions to answer, TLJ didn’t.
Contradicting your own claim in the next sentence. A+. Thanks for proving my point.
And deliberately holding up the worst interpretation of how those plot lines could be developed isn’t meaningful. Might as well slap together a Chad-Soyjak meme and say you won.
The shot of the kid with the broom left me so hopeful for all the new things I thought were coming. All the retreading that Episode 9 did left me disappointed.
This was done better in ESB.
Who cares? We have no idea who Snoke was. Because of this there’s nothing to indicate Kylo Ren is doing anything different than Snoke would’ve done. There’s zero perceptible change because they didn’t bother to spend any time defining the First Order or Snoke.
I always assume there’s other force users across the galaxy all of the time. I think you’re taking the things you see in a Star Wars movie to be 100% of the events that happen in that Galaxy. For those of us that take it as some of the more interesting stories coming from this massive galaxy of who knows how many people (trillions? quintiliions?) that scene is meaningless. Like, yeah that’s always happening, all of the time. I generally assume that there are many Jedi out there. The movie is calling itself “The Last Jedi” to present the galaxy as something narrow (which is stupid because Leia would be a Jedi FFS, just another thing they would need to fix later) just so you will think it’s interesting to broaden something presented to as being something narrow. It was never narrow, it was only TLJ that attempted to present Star Wars as something narrow. it was always broad, nothing new happened when they suggested it was broader than only TLJ presented it to be earlier in the movie.
Why wouldn’t we? First of all TLJ is just ESB and RoTJ thrown into a blender with the point of all of the plot lines they re-hashed removed. Benicio Del Tor is Lando. Kylo Ren kills the old evil guy like Darth Vader did. They have to blow up a super laser. There’s AT ATs walking across a white plain. Ah, but it’s different because TLJ’s version of Lando doesn’t learn anything? It’s different because Kylo Ren doesn’t change? It’s different because they fail to blow up the super laser? It’s different because the AT ATs are walking on salt instead of snow? Sorry, but it’s the same kinda shit just without any point to it. Which makes it boring to anyone familiar with the movies it’s clumsily copy and pasting from.
RoS is way more interesting than TLJ. There’s at least a point to it, at least it wasn’t just blindly copy and pasting things from better movies without even understanding them.
Your inability to see the potential of those plot threads doesn’t prove the movie is bad, just your lack of vision.
Ah, my point exemplified. Thanks.
No, it’s pretty definitive proof the movie is bad. The world just has easily amused dummies.