You say that as if migrant workers aren’t exploited to make animal products.
When you buy a meal, you have 2 options: contribute to animal exploitation (that probably contains human exploitation) or not.
If you know which companies exploit humans, it’s on you to denounce them publicly and not support them.
Until you can name these companies so you know what to avoid, you can be sure that any animal product you get is the result of animal exploitation (and probably human as well).
Why not compare to home crops, then? If the person has resources to produce the animal feed (so they can ensure there are no humans being exploited, right?), they surely can grow crops to directly eat.
Crops take dramatically more land, and labor, for one.
And it is absolutely feasible and not especially difficult to feed one or two chickens with responsibly sourced animal feed options at a reasonable price, compared to the cost and availability of responsibly sourced vegan protein.
(Chicken feed from a local farmer is drastically cheaper than human-consumable produce from the same source… Half the time you are literally just getting the leftovers from what they use for their own livestock)
It feels like you’re trying to move the goal posts on me.
Until now you were arguing that buying plants would incur in human exploitation. But now that I’ve argued for the least exploitative scenario, you came up with ‘responsibly sourced plant options at a reasonable price’.
So now we can get plants without exploiting immigrants, right?
Then there’s no need to exploit animals, simple as that
No. Please go reread the conversation again. I have always been discussing the relatively high cost of responsibly sourced vegan protein compared to raising one or two chickens for their eggs, which drives people who want to be vegan to purchase cheaper produce that involves exploiting humans. That has always been my concern. And that has always been what I’ve focused on. And saying that it is relatively easy to responsibly source chicken feed at a reasonable price compared to doing the same for human-consumable protein is perfectly consistent with my entire argument
You have just made an absolute statement of ideology that is disregarding rational debate. That is exactly what I have a problem with. You have decided on a specific ideology and nothing will change your mind, even when presented with reasonable explanations of why it may be flawed for some people. You appear to have edited your comment to add a “then” before the last sentence, or I misread.
I’m done with this conversation now. Thank you for remaining civil, at least. Have a great day/night.
There’s a way to get cheap and ethically sourced plants when they’re destined for animals
There’s no way to get cheap and ethically sourced plants when they’re destined for humans
You’re missing that humans are also animals and we eat some of the same crops non-human animals eat. The human exploitation you’re arguing against doesn’t magically disappear from crops grown for animals.
Yup. You’ve got my points exactly correct. And when you’re ready to live on chicken feed every day we can continue this discussion. Until then, I will respectfully disagree with your claim.
You say that as if migrant workers aren’t exploited to make animal products.
When you buy a meal, you have 2 options: contribute to animal exploitation (that probably contains human exploitation) or not.
If you know which companies exploit humans, it’s on you to denounce them publicly and not support them.
Until you can name these companies so you know what to avoid, you can be sure that any animal product you get is the result of animal exploitation (and probably human as well).
We were specifically discussing the consumption of eggs from home-raised livestock so I’m not sure this reply is in context?
Why not compare to home crops, then? If the person has resources to produce the animal feed (so they can ensure there are no humans being exploited, right?), they surely can grow crops to directly eat.
Crops take dramatically more land, and labor, for one.
And it is absolutely feasible and not especially difficult to feed one or two chickens with responsibly sourced animal feed options at a reasonable price, compared to the cost and availability of responsibly sourced vegan protein.
(Chicken feed from a local farmer is drastically cheaper than human-consumable produce from the same source… Half the time you are literally just getting the leftovers from what they use for their own livestock)
It feels like you’re trying to move the goal posts on me.
Until now you were arguing that buying plants would incur in human exploitation. But now that I’ve argued for the least exploitative scenario, you came up with ‘responsibly sourced plant options at a reasonable price’.
So now we can get plants without exploiting immigrants, right?
Then there’s no need to exploit animals, simple as that
No. Please go reread the conversation again. I have always been discussing the relatively high cost of responsibly sourced vegan protein compared to raising one or two chickens for their eggs, which drives people who want to be vegan to purchase cheaper produce that involves exploiting humans. That has always been my concern. And that has always been what I’ve focused on. And saying that it is relatively easy to responsibly source chicken feed at a reasonable price compared to doing the same for human-consumable protein is perfectly consistent with my entire argument
You have just made an absolute statement of ideology that is disregarding rational debate. That is exactly what I have a problem with. You have decided on a specific ideology and nothing will change your mind, even when presented with reasonable explanations of why it may be flawed for some people.You appear to have edited your comment to add a “then” before the last sentence, or I misread.I’m done with this conversation now. Thank you for remaining civil, at least. Have a great day/night.
I’ll just summarize your points:
You’re missing that humans are also animals and we eat some of the same crops non-human animals eat. The human exploitation you’re arguing against doesn’t magically disappear from crops grown for animals.
Yup. You’ve got my points exactly correct. And when you’re ready to live on chicken feed every day we can continue this discussion. Until then, I will respectfully disagree with your claim.