Auction: https://www.sav.com/auctions/details/7073489/hexbear.net
Not sure what will happen, but seems to be a Fediverselore event for sure
Update: post from hexbear admin on chapo.chat: https://chapo.chat/post/4468531
Auction: https://www.sav.com/auctions/details/7073489/hexbear.net
Not sure what will happen, but seems to be a Fediverselore event for sure
Update: post from hexbear admin on chapo.chat: https://chapo.chat/post/4468531
Hating on a major branch of leftist thought isn’t technically anti-all left, but it’s still left punching. Trying to say Marxism-Leninism isn’t left is just purity testing nonsense.
I dunno, if you consider yourself a leftist I think you’d be doing a much better service attacking right-wingers, especially now that there’s a huge rise of literal Nazis in Western countries, than attacking branches of leftism you personally disagree with. It’s entirely understandable why people would question your motives if you decide to dedicate a good portion of your personal time to anti-communism.
Hexbears accusing others of left punching and purity testing 😂
This is honestly surreal, you don’t see the irony in what you’re saying?
No, I don’t see the irony.
All that hexbear does is attack other leftists and purity test endlessly. You even attack your own admins and developers until they just leave because they’re sick of being abused by other so called “leftists”.
Solidarity ain’t easy but it would be nice if you at least pretended to try.
What Leftists do Hexbear attack? What counts as a “purity test?” If you mean that Hexbear opposes Gonzaloists that support Gonzalo and defend Pol Pot, then I’d say that’s a fantastic example of good attacks against “leftists.”
I think you’re on a bit of a high horse, as someone who runs the same instance MeanwhileOnGrad is hosted on, and tried to baselessly claim sh.itjust.works is “less bigoted than Hexbear” when you yourself think China and Russia are pushing “gender politics” to radicalize western youths against the US. This is MAGA-tier conspiracy theory nonsense and undermines the real struggles faced by transgender people in order to push your own political agenda.
Lol okay.
China and Russia would never dream of using digital psyops to destabilize western nations. That would be fighting dirty, and they don’t do such things 😂
This is also how I know that every hexbear user is a 100% real and based authentic transgender leftist and there is no chance that any of them have nefarious intentions. Because no one has ever lied or trolled on the internet before, as we are both aware.
You don’t have any evidence of your conspiracy theory, just a distrust of Russia and China, or rather a trust in their anti-US stance. Fair enough. Where you go into transphobic conspiracy theory is when you then completely invent the idea that both of these countries are pushing “gender politics” as a wedge issue. The only purpose this serves, without any proof, is to undermine the experience of gender-nonconforming people. Russia in particular is extremely socially conservative, further adding to why this is akin to Q-Anon nonsense.
You’re just doubling down on the transphobia at this point by automatically distrusting and attempting to discredit trans users. I recommend you talk to actual trans people and see what they think about suspecting they might be lying about their identities just because you disagree politically.
I know actual trans people you clown. What you’re saying is nonsensical, if I know them IRL then I obviously know they’re actually trans. Why would you suggest that I gaslight my friends, what the hell is wrong with you?
On the other hand, if it’s just an anonymous username on hexbear constantly calling everyone else transphobic, even people that are clearly allies and trying to express support, then I’ll remain skeptical.
Your comment is textbook circular reasoning 101. They are trans because they claim to be trans and thus its transphobic of me to question that. I’m not automatically distrusting or discrediting anybody based on them being trans or not.
The behavior that concerns me is the people who constantly attack everyone else, including trans positive allies, other trans people, and other leftists, and then when they get called out on their hateful and self-destructive behavior, they claim transphobia. And furthermore, even for those who are trans, it’s not transphobic to tell a trans person they’re acting like an asshole and they should do better.
You seem extremely confused. Russia and China are both extremely socially conservative. They are pushing the transgender topic in foreign countries while having absolutely zero tolerance for transgender people domestically. Does your brain work at all? You think because they’re socially conservative they wouldn’t consider using transgender ideology as a weapon and wedge topic? That’s literally the exact reason why they are using it, because they don’t actually care about helping trans people so they are free to infiltrate and destroy the movement from within, without caring about the consequences.
Imagine saying well the US is very economically capitalist, so they would never consider infiltrating foreign communist political movements and intentionally destabilizing them. Like hello?
That’s pretty clearly not what I was saying. I mean talk to transgender people and ask how they feel about constantly suspecting either transgender people you disagree with politically are lying about being trans, or that Russia and China are trying to manipulate them. This is directly undermining and delegitimizing trans expression online, rule number 1 of being a trans ally is to not undermine people that say they are trans.
They are trans because they say they are, yes. It is nobody’s place to judge, this kind of thinking that you can be the arbiter of who is or isn’t trans is transphobic.
As for Russia and China, they are in different leagues socially, Russia is far worse while one of the top celebrities in China, Jin Xing, is trans. This would be unheard of in Russia. Moreover, you assert full belief in them “pushing the transgender topic,” despite no evidence whatsoever, beyond “do you think they wouldn’t?” We know the US pushes anticommunism, this is well-documented, and moreover isn’t related to gender identity but blanket opposition.
You are accused of not being an ally because, frankly, you do the job of transphobes for them. You play right into MAGA Q-Anon hands.
Tankies are just fascists painted red.
And the last time I checked, hating fascists isn’t anti-left
“Tankie” is a caricature. The idea of a tankie is the ideal vision of a McCarthyian Communist. In reality, the overwhelming majority of people labeled as such don’t actually fit that label, it’s more of a way to cast an image of someone’s positions based on, say, support for AES countries, and twist that into the evil Commie Pinko that haunts the dreams of 1960s children in the US.
Moreover, calling Communists “fascists” makes about as much sense as libertarians complaining about the US government being “Communist.” It’s entirely divorced from reality and rests upon dramatic errors in understanding what fascism is, and how AES states are run. I recommend reading Blackshirts and Reds to understand why fascism and Communism are in no way comparable, as well as Is the Red Flag Flying? The Political Economy of the Soviet Union to see how the Socialist economy functioned in the USSR.
So you’re saying that tankies aren’t communists?
I thought you just said that Tankies aren’t communists? Because the alternative is that communism is when you genocide uyghurs to create Lebensraum for the han chinese. Which is just fascism.
I spent years learning about fascism just to be lectured by a fascist charading as a communist on the internet lol
I just quickly put it through Perplexity and: “For example, he interprets the 1956 Hungarian intervention as a pre-emptive strike against Western powers gaining influence in the Eastern Bloc”
It is Tankie shit. Imperialism bad, unless the Flag is red, then massacring workers and women is actually good. And from doing the same with the blakshirts book it seems the author has no Idea of how fascism came to rise or willingly lies about it to push his narrative.
Calling tankies communists is a disservice to the entire ideology of communism. If you want to simp for an authoritarian strongman just be honest with yourself and call yourself a fascist.
I said “Tankie” is a caricature, another term might be “strawman.” They don’t exist. It doesn’t matter if these caricatures are Communist or not, the descriptor isn’t an actual position but a term akin to “Pinko.” Trying to seriously gauge someone’s position based on calling them a Pinko, rather than, say, a Marxist-Leninist, is silly.
Your entire comment reads in bad-faith. The Uyghur people aren’t being executed en-masse or forcibly sterilized, yet you liken re-education camps to literal industrialized mass-murder. There’s a genuine conversation to be had surrounding China’s treatment of Uyghur people that doesn’t require Holocaust trivialization.
Similarly, you let an AI summarize a book for you in order to avoid engaging with it, and yet Syzmanski is correct. MI6 funded, supplied, and trained the Hungarian counter-revolutionaries. These counter-revolutionaries were allied with fascists who were lynching Jewish people and Communists.
Color me surprised, the one calling Communists “fascist” and doing Holocaust trivialization is a defender of Nazis. Read Blackshirts and Reds.
And literally in the next paragraph he denies the uyghur genocide.
except they literally are.
And then he parrots soviet propaganda on why their imperialism was actually not imperialism lol
Strawmanning and moving the goalpoast. Tried and True Tankie Method.
Go wank another one to the poster of Stalin over your bed. A serious discussion is not possible with someone living detached from reality. Have a good one.
What do you think a genocide is? You compared re-education camps to the Holocaust, industrialized mass-murder of over 10 million people. Read the UN report on Human Rights Violations in Xinjiang. There’s a lot here that can be discussed without bringing up lies like “forced steralization.” Such claims originate with Christian Nationalist Adrian Zenz, who believes China is the antichrist. His claims of forced sterilization (paid for by BBC, I might add) constitute a misreading of 8% of new IUDs in China going to Uyghurs for 80%. Uyghurs were even exempt from the One Child Policy.
You have no way of defending the fact that you just called the New York Times “Soviet Propaganda” when it reveals the Nazi-led pograms in Hungary, you just double down and continue to bat for literal Nazis. It isn’t a strawman, you literally defended the MI6 funded and trained Nazi Pograms and lynchings of Jewish People and Communists, it doesn’t get more clear-cut than that.
Politics doesn’t exist on a one-dimensional scale you know. These extremely authoritarian branches of leftism are to me just as detestable as right-wing authoritarianists (though clearly one is more of a present threat). But I dislike being associated with those people because they believe they somehow must be similar in ideology to me.
Politics doesn’t really have dimensions to begin with, things like the Political Compass are just abstractions of ideas and positions that attempts (unsuccessfully, IMO) to provide shortcuts to understanding the broader image of a viewpoint.
As an example, Marxism-Leninism and AES states espouse and implement more democratic structures, but harshly oppressed opposition from liberals, monarchists, and fascists. This is certainly “authoritarian,” but I don’t think that’s a bad use of authority. Rather, all systems and positions are “authoritarian” in different directions and towards different groups. You get where this is getting muddy and rather than clarifying, it’s actually adding more confusion?
As a side-note, if you think Communists are “just as detestable” as Nazis, I think you need to look more critically at these movements historically. Blackshirts and Reds is a great comparison of fascism and communism historically, proving them to be completely uncomparable in terms of sheer brutality and who they served, the bourgeoisie or the proletariat, while taking a critical look at the USSR and why it dissolved.
Which is why I’m saying it’s nonsense to claim that say a social democrat should not criticise a Marxist-Leninist because it’s “punching left”.
This makes little sense. Apart from extremists most groups and systems do tolerate different opinions and viewpoints, and would even allow change if a majority agrees with it. Authoritarian governments explicitly do not allow this.
There’s a case to be made for suppressing views that are directly harmful to human life. Authoritarian governments suppress viewpoints that may harm or reduce their own power. And much like capital, power has a tendency to accumulate in one place, which is exactly why democratic systems that allow other viewpoints are so important: it decentralizes power. This also deradicalizes extreme elements in government.
Take the Netherlands. There’s been much said about the PVV, the anti-Islam and anti-migration party, coming into power. But because their power is so diluted and shared with other parties with different viewpoints, they’re having to work with three much more moderate parties. As a result:
They’re still twats, but they haven’t made any extreme or radical changes, and they won’t be able to do so either. They had to moderate, and they did (to a point, of course).
History isn’t exactly kind on either movement. The theory is always different from practice unfortunately. I’m not interested in counting skulls, I decide for myself what the boundary is for me to consider acceptable. I don’t care how far beyond that boundary a movement is. I won’t vote for it nor will I cease criticizing it so long as I have alternatives (and thankfully I have plenty). Both Marxism-Leninism as well as Nazism are beyond that boundary for me. Sure, there’s more elements I agree with in ML, but I can find those in other ideologies too. It’s the elements that I heavily disagree with that make me dislike it. I can acknowledge Nazism is worse, but that doesn’t draw me towards ML in any way.
I suppose you could draw a parallel to people who won’t support the democrats over their stance on Gaza having caused a genocide. Sure, republicans are certainly worse, but that won’t make me a cheerleader for Harris. But given that the US has no alternative, I would (begrudgingly) still vote D. Thankfully I live in a country with strong democratic principles, which does provide me with alternatives, so I don’t have to compromise on my principles.
“Punching left” just means antagonizing Socialists. It isn’t about arbitrary spatial coordinates, but is a commonly understood shorthand.
Secondly, systems do not allow themselves to be changed. Feudalism wasn’t voted away, nor is Capitalism. There’s frequently controlled opposition giving the illusion of choice, when no such choice exists in reality. This is a fact that has been understood for centuries.
I don’t think the case that viewpoints like fascism should be allowed makes any sense, and taking the USSR’s example, liberalization killed 7 million people that would not have died otherwise. Rather, if we take Marx’s analysis, centralization of industry and production is inevitable as it advances, ergo it should be democratized as it centralizes. Decentralization doesn’t mean democratization, such analysis would mean Capitalism is more democratic. In reality, centralization and decentralization have nothing to do with how democratic a system is, just how it can be democratized.
As for Marxism-Leninism, you can oppose it without drawing equivalence to the Nazis. Doing as such originated as a form of Nazi apologia and Holocaust minimization, also known as Double Genocide Theory. You likely aren’t intentionally doing that, but the fact remains that this is the origin of such equivalences. Moreover, the bodycount of Western European countries and the US is far higher to begin with, History has been more kind to AES than it has to Capitalism.
I encourage you to read the book I linked.
“Socialist” is an incredibly broad label. To argue that critique on auth-left groups is an attack on socialists is just not meaningful in any way, as it specifically refers to a niche within socialism.
Except that historically speaking they have changed in certain situations. They are rare of course, but it’s certainly not unheard of. The Second Hellenic Republic for example was established via democratic referendum, after which the monarch was peacefully deposed. The idea that all opposition is somehow controlled is fairly ridiculous given an honest reading of many historical events.
There is of course a certain set of safeguards built into almost any system that resists changes. A constitution is a good example. But that too can in most systems be changed. Resistance to change doesn’t mean resistance becomes impossible. Authoritarian governments tend to establish blocks that prevent change, sure. But most democracies would be able to for example remove capitalism if a sufficient majority votes to do so.
There is a level of conflating of ideology and political system that you seem to display, which I suspect is somewhatideologically motivated in your case. Then again, those distinctions are hardly ever really truly clear. One could argue that capitalism is a strictly economic ideology, not a political one. But any system that adopts it also sees effects in the political sphere.
Never argued fascism should be allowed. It’s an ideology that is a clear and present danger to society and human life, so it should in my opinion be banned.
Capitalism by definition centralizes capital as much as possible. This accumulation of wealth leads to an accumulation of power, which has anti-democratic effects (see: the US). Decentralization does not necessarily mean democratization, but centralization does almost always lead to more authoritarianism.
It’s the big stumbling block of communism as well. It attempts to decentralize wealth by spreading it over the population, with the workers owning the means of production. But doing so requires incredible power (to seize and redistribute), which typically ends up with a small group or even a single person. And they rarely relinquish that power (see: the totalitarian leadership of the USSR), which also leads to authoritarianism.
I was very explicit in that I don’t consider them equal. You can compare things without equivocating them. To consider a comparison an equivocation is what people do to silence critique, a tactic which I don’t appreciate. All I’m saying is that both are beyond the boundary of what I in good consciousness can support. I don’t care about counting skulls, I care about the risk that the pile grows. That risk is far greater with Nazism (obligatory: fuck Nazis), but unfortunately also not insignificant enough with Marxism-Leninism either.
Thankfully those aren’t the only two options available.
It is meaningful for punching left to refer to antagonizing Socialists. Marxist-Leninists are by far the most common type of Leftist globally, so pretending that they are just a small niche is very western-centric.
As for fascism, you argued that the Soviets should have allowed more opposition. In the USSR, that opposition consisted of Tsarists, fascists, and liberals, all of which ultimately were responsible for killing millions of citizens of the USSR.
As for centralization, you agree with Marx about it centralizing. However, rather than move forward in time, you try to turn the clock backwards. If centralization is a given, then it should be democratized across the whole of society so that we may continue to increase efficiency in production and work fewer and fewer hours to cover more and more needs and wants.
As for how the USSR was run, this is just generally false. The Soviet method of democracy was in place, and the economy was run and planned by many, many, many people. As a consequence, wealth disparity between the richest and the poorest was around 10 times, as opposed to hundreds to thousands in the Tsarist era or the modern Capitalist era. Some “ruling elite” they turned out to be, looks like they sucked at it. For further reading: Soviet Democracy and Is the Red Flag Flying? The Political Economy of the Soviet Union.
In your original comment, you expressed equal distaste for Communists and Nazis. Communists have historically had far fewer skulls under their name than liberal regimes or fascist regimes.
Either way, though, what’s your alternative that causes you to break from Marxism? Where is the evidence of its success, and your plan to get there? Genuinely, I am asking honestly.
Considering this is a western-oriented service, and I live in the west and largely interact with other people in the west, it seems to me that it makes sense to mostly consider the political makeup of the west. I don’t see the point of collaborating with people on the other side of the planet when it comes to local politics.
Regardless, do you have any sort of citation regarding the prevalence of certain political ideologies? I can barely find national sources that divvy up ideologies enough, let alone worldwide. And then I mean an actual survey regarding ideology, not membership of a party or voting records. Plenty of leftwingers are members of the democrat party for example, but I wouldn’t consider them to be neoliberal or something. Genuinely curious about this.
I didn’t argue anything about what the Soviets should or shouldn’t have done. The USSR banned far more opposition than just those groups. And it’s not like the Soviets themselves haven’t caused millions of deaths themselves.
The direction of planning was centralised into the hands of very, very few people, even if the details were worked out by more people. But I don’t think anyone can argue that Stalin wasn’t a dictator, or that Kruschev eliminated anyone who could oppose his rise to power, etc…
I don’t try to turn the clock backwards. I want to avoid the consolidation of power and wealth in the first place, which is what historically has always led to mismanagement, corruption, suppression and in worst cases wars and genocides. Rather trying to redirect that accumulation of power to a small group that has to somehow democratize it, said power should immediately be spread out over many groups or individuals. Easiest example would be wealth accumulation: strong progressive taxation with a rate of up to 100% at the maximum acceptable level of wealth. That money should immediately be distributed to the rest of the population, without intervention from a government who could redirect it for other purposes. I don’t advocate for the abolition of capital or property, because I don’t expect humans to be selfless enough to do so. But at some point when someone has ‘enough’, then that should be that and they shouldn’t be able to obtain more.
I don’t care. As I said I don’t care about counting skulls, I care that the pile is considerably large. I don’t care about which method was used to count the exact total, whether that’s per capita, per year, per war or whatever, as proponents of both capitalism and communism keep doing to lower their own totals. I don’t start liking communists because the Nazis/capitalists/feudalists/whatever were worse. They too have blood on their hands and that makes me dislike them, it doesn’t get more complicated than that, and no amount of apologizing for these deaths will suddenly make me think otherwise.
Best place to live in the world right now is likely the Nordics. Ultimately capitalist, sure, but with strong social mechanisms so that nobody ends up falling behind. Social democrats have a fairly good track record of not ending up involved in genocides and life seems to on average improve the most with social democratic policies. I live in the Netherlands, which is a bit too much on the right wing-liberal side of things but I do very much appreciate the electoral system, with proportional representation. It creates a lot of parties, sure, but that spreads out power and that prevents radicals from suddenly seizing power (as demonstrated by the current government that consists of a radical party that isn’t getting any radical policies through + 3 more moderate parties trying (and succeeding) to keep everything in check). We also do have very rich people, but there aren’t a handful of them that dictate all politics for example. The judicial branch manages itself and is properly independent, which keeps the executive in check.
It’s a stable government form, that can incrementally improve things without letting people fall behind.
Complete sidenote: countries in general should be smaller imo, protected by defensive pacts. That would reduce imperialist tendencies from now large countries like the US, Russia and China (again by limiting the accumulation of power).
It’s important for Leftists to take an internationalist stance, so as to avoid perpetuating Imperialism like PatSocs seek to.
As for sources on numbers in different niches, I don’t think there are hard numbers we can look at outside of viewing which tendencies have had the most traction and widest impact historically, which is currently Marxism-Leninism, especially if we include the CPC and assume a good chunk of its 96 million members are Marxist-Leninists.
I don’t know what point you’re trying to make about the Soviets with respect to “killing millions” or “banning opposition” outside of what I said, you aren’t really pointing at specifics so there’s nothing for me to respond to, other than to say the Black Book of Communism has long been debunked.
As for the Soviets, power was dramatically equalized, especially compared to Tsarist Russia and the Russian Federation. For Stalin, the CIA didn’t think him a dictator. He certainly held a lot of power, but he wasn’t unaccountable nor was he the one making all of the decisions. Same with Kruschev. That doesn’t mean no Soviet leader has made mistakes, or had self-interested intentions, but at the same time you are taking an ahistorical, dogmatic view of the Soviet Union.
What you describe, with your heavy progressive tax rates, has only ever been in place in countries fearing a revolution while neighboring a Socialist power, historically the USSR. It’s one thing to think a system would be nice, it’s another thing entirely to shift towards it. Moreover, without addressing Capitalism, your “decentralization” is just an attempt to break up industry and keep Capitalism going a bit longer, like cutting your arm so it never fully heals.
Back to the Communists, I don’t genuinely understand who you would support, it seems you let perfect be an enemy of good, which is just nihilism and passive support for the status quo.
Oh, you answered it in your next paragraph. It’s no wonder you hold western-centric views, support for the Nordics makes that clear. The Nordics fund their safety nets through brutal loans and export of Capital, a process identified and tracked as Imperialism. They essentially function as landlords in country-form, expropriating far more value from sheer ownership of Capital than they actually produce, it’s a form of usury. These Safety Nets are declining (as you yourself are noticing) because the Soviets are no longer right next door, pressuring the Capitalists in your country to offer concessions. That’s why the Nordics are eroding.
I think a big part of your worldview is thinking the Nordics separate from US Imperialism, and not willing accomplices to the looting of the Global South. It might hurt, but you should look into the IMF and how Western Europe and the US work together to serve as global landlords, backed by the US’s millitary and NATO membership as essentially a protection racket.
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Totally going to defeat that 400 year dictatorship of capital which has only previously made concessions to workers when there was a tangible alternative system presenting some threat to theirs with an election. Keep it up. Believe in you. <3
Yes, Marxism-Leninism is surely the only alternative out there. I guess all those concessions to social democrats, greens etc… never happened. 🙄
Marxism-Leninism is literally the study of how to overthrow capitalism. So you can go ahead and try the Paris Commune again for the dozenth time but yes. It is the alternative to capitalism.
If you want to overthrow capitalism you’re going to be a ML or you’re going to try to start over from 0 for entirely stupid reasons.
Those concessions to social democrats were made when the USSR was presenting an alternative, workers were presenting an alternative (dragging the boss out and beating him to death infront of his family), or both.
People forget FDR was a Roosevelt, old money. His predecessor had just sent the tanks in to raze an encampment of insurrectionist soldiers within sight of the capitol building. FDR didn’t give concessions because he secretly thought his class deserved less and the workers deserved more, but as a means to protect capitalism (and his privilege under capitalism), and nearly got coup’d for doing that.
When the bourgeoisie don’t have a reason to fear the guillotine, they stop buying guillotine insurance and your social democracy gets hollowed out by neoliberalism.