If you’re just going to insult people without contributing to the discussion then go elsewhere.

I’m not going down to your level, just report your behaviour and let the mods deal with it.

There’s no need for it. I came here to talk about politics, not engage with whatever you’re doing.

And for your information there was a misunderstanding that me and the user amicably sorted out. Civil discussion. It’s a good thing. Try it.

I’m not quite sure what it was that I said to trigger that response but I was referring to a leader not accepting a salary to do the job, rather than a leader who doesn’t even have to take bribes which is what the user meant. It was a misunderstanding that was cleared up further in the comments.

I have no idea what part of my comment you’re responding to though. I apologise of this isn’t the case but it looks to me as though you’ve interpreted something in a particular way and used that to go on an angry tirade against Kier Starmer and the rise of right wing politics.

That’s fair enough but not what I was talking about. I’ll leave you to it.

Fair enough. It’s just crossed wires. Thanks for understanding. For what it’s worth I don’t think you’re wrong in many of your points on Starmer. I’m hopeful he’ll improve before he gets the chop but I wouldn’t be surprised if he doesn’t.

What’s your point? Other than being insulting.

I’m not shifting anything!

No mention of salary.

Pay. His pay. Another way to describe that is his salary.

I see by pay you meant “taking a bribe”. You didn’t say that until just now. That’s where the confusion is coming from.

I’m not really appreciating the rudeness either. I can’t be arsed with this. Lets just leave it there.

Wait, are you effectively saying that Kier Starmer took the job of Prime Minister because he was too afraid to say “no”?

Surely it would take more of a spine to say “no” to the money being offered than to say nothing and accept it?

I’m sorry I’m not following your logic here at all. I still can’t see why refusing a salary makes someone spineless. I think the opposite is true.

Transparency International highlighted the UK has slipped due to record spending on election campaigning . Labour, Conservatives and Reform have been guilty of this in various instances.

It’s easy to blame a single party, as some commenters in here might, but this is very clearly a systemic issue.

There need to be strict limits on campaign spending and absolute transparency about where that money has come from.

No more overseas donors. No more Think Tanks taking donations for “research”, from opaque sources and funneling it back to the party.

Politics needs to be cleaned up and freed from the grasp of these rich wankers who think because they have more money they can set the rules on how we as a people are governed.

I get it, you think he’s spineless and corrupt. That’s obvious.

My point is only why does it make a leader - any leader - that doesn’t accept payment for their duties spinless?

That’s what I’m interested in. Why you’re conflating the two. Why does not accepting a salary to be a political leader make someone spineless?

You don’t need to repeat that you think he’s spineless and corrupt. I get that. That’s up to you. I’m talking about the broader sense of any leader here.

I was hoping for a discussion around that topic, rather a repeat of of your views on Kier Starmer. You’ve made them clear. Thanks.

Welcome to America.

Anything and everything is susceptible to private wealth and exploitation of the poor.

Doesn’t matter if it’s your health or your property or you name it. It can and will be exploited to take money from you. The plebs.

I understand what you’re saying but I think you’re misinterpreting what I am asking.

I haven’t made an argument as to whether he is spinless or not. I am purely interested in why you think not having to pay a leader is a bad thing rather than a good thing.

That’s all I want to discuss. I’m not arguing for or against his actions. You’ve gone off on a tangent.

So why do you think not having to pay a leader is a bad thing? Because I personally would view that as a positive as they are not motivated by financial gain. From your point it sounds like a leader should demand to be paid a decent amount?

I didn’t say any of that. I’m simply asking why not having to pay someone is a negative? Or makes them spineless?

a leader so spineless that you don’t even need to pay him? Who’da thought?

Sorry but what do you mean by this? I’m struggling to see how this is bad. Would you rather a leader took all the money they could get their hands on? Because that’s how you end up with Trump.

Sheer opulence.

I think what this actually means is that some companies are now using technology to extract as much money as they possibly can from you and me.

I bet it will soon be the majority (if it isn’t already).

Am I fine with age verification? Yes, I am. Especially for social media. I don’t want children being brainwashed by right wing propaganda that is prevalent on there and I believe the state has a duty of care to protect citizens.

No channels of privacy? No, I am not fine with that. I haven’t seen any evidence to suggest that private conversations are not possible though, either via chat encryption or any other method. Is there any for the UK?

Chat control? I’m not sure. That sounds vague. I would need to know the specifics and what it’s protective purpose is.

You are welcome to call me blind. You still haven’t presented any evidence that the government is keeping secret social scores on it’s citizens though, nor any evidence of state wide internet restrictions on privacy. If there is such evidence and I believe it is a threat to an open and democratic society then I will act.

The USA is currently descending into authoritarianism, in my view precisely because “freedom of speech” and freedom of ownership are so closely protected. Malicious forces can spread whatever messages they want and influence whoever they want with impunity.

My view is that the current UK government is not a threat to the people. The elites looking to purchase power and influence and eventually become the government are the biggest threat. Social media is their most effective weapon.

I would argue that if you can’t see that then you are blind yourself.

I’m happy to agree to disagree though. Civility and all that.

I sense a dangerous level of willful disbelief.

Disbelief of what? That the UK government is keeping secret social scores on it’s citizens? Yeah. Until I see evidence of that.

They are starting to police the internet more though. I personally think that’s due to the huge amounts of misinformation used to manipulate the public via social media. I.e. The Southport Riots which were inflamed by spreading of lies about immigrants.

This is probably an unpopular opinion here but I think there should be more control. Peoples view of reality is being completely distorted by the internet and what they see and read. It will only get worse with AI and deepfakes. I personally think it does need more policing. There is a good documentary called "Hypernormalisation’ by Adam Curtis that explores the reality distortion we experience. It is worth watching.

My political views are that one of governments main duties is to protect citizens from harm. That includes protecting them from business malpractices from social media companies and foreign influencers looking to destabilise the population. I believe our government should take action to prevent harm from those.

I am not being wilfully ignorant of what they are doing. I support it. That may make me unpopular here but so be it. I stand by that belief. I will change it if I am presented with tangible evidence of things like social ratings for citizens or nefarious uses of peoples information. I haven’t seen any this far though. Feel free to send some if you have any.

I

you don’t believe they are locking down the internet

No, I believe they are policing the internet more than previously. The part I definitely don’t believe is your idea that they are using this information to make secret social scores on citizens. That’s a dystopian fantasy in my view.

Aside from introducing age verification checks do you have any evidence that it’s being “locked down”? You’re right in that my understanding is limited as I’m only aware of what our government has passed into law, not what people think is happening.

If you have some article or evidence that helps explain it I would be grateful.

Locking down the internet is a huge deal too, they are setting up every ip, every account, connected to a name and face and connected with all other information running it through half baked ai threat detection by companies like palantir to make secret social scores to determine everything.

Sorry, what? In the UK? I don’t believe that for a second, unless you have some irrefutable evidence for that. I could write an essay about why that’s not true.

surrender your information to the US as well make no mistake.

If that is happening it is by the design of the technology made by someone like Peter Thiel. The UK government would never knowingly allow such a thing to happen. There’s no benefit and they risk being ejected from government if found out. It sounds ridiculous to be honest, sorry.

Very concerned here obviously as one would guess. We are fucked, I don’t want to see Europe also fall to fascists that have every intention of fixing elections for the worst people in the world to remain in permanent control. We will be helping your fascists, secretly and openly,

Likewise! I am very concerned just how easily the US has fallen to the right wing spell. Steve Bannon has been shown in the Epstein files as linked to helping all sorts of right wing parties in Europe, including Reform. Luckily we at least have more stringent campaign funding rules that America’s “spend what you want”.

That is the price America pays for ultimate freedom of speech. It is lauded as the peak of democracy there, yet that very protection is used to guarantee unlimited financing of political campaigns by PACS and the elite. It’s actually a weapon turned against the people. But yeah. Freeeedom.

The west is going to fall like dominoes barring some real leadership that is not forthcoming because we somehow still trust the controlled opposition of the oligarchs that have captured all of our parties

Not if citizens are wise to the manipulation tactics used i.e. social media. Many here are becoming aware. Rules are becoming more stringent. I have hope. Reform tend to do well in the less educated sectors of society. If we can educate them then they will see them for what they are. They thrive in poorer areas too. If the economy gets back to prospering then again, they will fade.

We need real leaders now

Mark Carney. His Davos speech was excellent. My hope os he starts taking the lead more with middle powers holding firm in the face of economic bullying from superpowers.

America and China cannot survive alone. They need the middle powers still, just less than the middle ones individually need them. As a collective though they have power.

My hope is the ties between EU countries grow stronger, hopefully we rejoin soon and we become a collective force.

That or Trump passes away amd MAGA fade into civil war. That would be nice.

I see. A lot of people do see it as concerning. We’ll see if it actually goes ahead. Many people have made their opposition to it clear.

How do you feel about the current state of your own country and the values that seem to be at threat there, if I may ask?

Cancelled the right to a trial by jury for up to 3 years in prison, from 1 passed in 2020, cancelling the magna carta without a fight.

I thought these changes were still in the proposal stage? They are bad though and I disagree with them.

I don’t disagree with anything else you’ve listed. I’m just struggling to see how any of that is worse than what 14 years of a Tory government provided? On top of a ruined economy, failing public services, huge NHS waiting times etc. they also introduced the 9k tuition fees.

Are you a UK citizen? If so are you a particularly young one?

Because I can tell you now that if you were of voting age living through those Tory governments and you were living in the country, as me, you would be far more bitter about the 14 years of turning our country to shit than a year and a half of an incompetent slightly authoritarian Labour government.

The majority of people would say the same. The Tories were voted out by a sweeping majority in 2024 because of this. UK citizens loathed the party and a good deal many still do, hence the rise of Reform.

I understand why you are angry at Starmer’s government and your criticisms are fair, but I do not at all believe that your opinion that his government, over one and a half years, has been worse than the previous 14 years of Tory governance is founded on anything tangible whatsoever.