That’s a good point that we don’t have to be locked into just one. Do you dual boot that? VM one inside another? Or probably you mean on different hardware?

I guess Fedora is ideal for gaming? But otherwise, is there a reason to use it rather than starting with Ubuntu and just install your own cutting edge features as you choose your own upgrade cycle? (Just the fact that they are all bundled together I suppose?)

Tbf it was on an island, so they were supposed to just get on boats / planes / helicopters / whatever and get away to safety easily.

Thank goodness that storms never occur in the tropics!? :-P

It was shit all around but it’s already the past, the question in my mind now is how we can learn from it and move forward. It will be rough going it seems, with a looming shutdown even before the new administration begins.:-(

I’ve noticed that discussions about matters are much more pleasant upon blanket blocking all the users from the ML instance. Sometimes I’ll go read the “identical” post on another instance and wow, what a difference it makes!?!

Still, fair that getting blocked is a step up from the almost non-existent (or at least non sequitur) “instance blocking” done by Lemmy.

I can just imagine an entire community dedicated to people posting - from each new Alt account that they make (particularly Blaze:-) - messages such as “please ban me from your instance”.

If half the Lemmings did this, it would have 20k posts in that community:-).

Banning anybody who so much as downvotes you

But that’s not what he did? This was mentioned in the post as well: he is banning on a pattern of voting, regardless of who it is to. The admin of midwest.social was banning people that downvoted HIM specifically, but dubvee.org seems to be doing this regardless of whether the votes are directed at him or someone else.

So like if a girl will only date boys taller than herself, that’s pretty shallow, but at least she’s up-front about her criteria?

So I think the avoidance of the PTB label is bc the walk matches the talk. So not quite a CLM as in button mashing, but closer to that one it would seem as in someone using the Lemmy tools to try to accomplish something that perhaps something other than Lemmy might have worked better at (not sure what) - so “an imperfect solution to the problem at hand” situation rather than PTB?

NOW you understand! 😜

Those kinds of messages seem to have worked - if not here bc we’re so tiny then at least overall. After all, we collectively decided together that BoTh SiDeS sAmE tHo and therefore elected Trump who ofc “is the same as Harris would have been irt the Gaza situation” (except not, if facts mattered, but since they don’t… then sure).

Thank you - I just found that after writing all that out:-).

I just commented over there too, saying:

There’s a huge difference between someone “doing precisely what they said they would do in advance” vs. a “Power-Tripping Bastard”, imho.

And my reasoning is that he outright says in advance that that is precisely what he will do?:

As an instance, we’re pretty heavily moderated in order to maintain a welcoming atmosphere that fosters civil discussion. We don’t “tone police” everything, but we do expect users, local and remote, to behave themselves and act in a rational, civilized manner. Those who cannot, local or federated, are quickly shown the door.

So it’s not 100% a bad thing, nor is it a wonderful thing either for people’s modlogs to be contaminated with a preemptive ban for a community that they have never heard of. He definitely seems to be trippin, but like, not maliciously, if that makes sense? Rather, like Beehaw, he seems to be attempting to make use of rather inadequate tools to do a job, and not caring so much how others interpret his actions.

One thing that is HUGE for me: let’s say that you don’t want an abortion. Okay then, so don’t get one? Something that affects purely oneself should be a decision made purely by themselves? To the extent that he is making a decision that affects solely his instance, he is entirely justified in doing so. Except that’s not 100% what is happening: there is a modlog entry that gets made. It’s tiny, it’s trivial, but it does involve the other party. Hence he gets some flak for that, and that’s fair.

But tbf, let’s examine the other side to that story: have you see the front page of Lemmy lately? Half the posts call for murder, if not outright in the title, then at least in the comment section?! I get it, the recipient was a bad guy, but let’s not mince words: vigilante justice will not end well. Imagine a guy walking home after finally getting his first month’s pay, except they delayed his first paycheck so he is walking home with $1000 dollars from his first two months paycheck in his pocket. If someone kills him and takes the money b/c “he’s rich” - never mind his home, his family, the medicine that his sick kid needs - how is that justified? I’m saying: who gets to decide who “deserves” this style of “justice” or not? The Russian bot farms posting on Lemmy? The people who hear it and genuinely believe & spread it around further?

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: I am not against porn existing, but I am against it existing outside of bounds - it’s not friendly, when it appears without consent. Similarly, calls for murder shouldn’t be appearing in “memes” or “shitpost” communities that are made for fun. Like, I may be down for a serious discussion every now and then, but dammit can’t I have 5 fucking minutes to look just at puppy and cat videos?!? The answer, ofc, is no, b/c I am not offered that choice: my only choice is to “use Lemmy”, to “not use Lemmy”, or “to spend hours and hours and hours and hours configuring Lemmy to suit my needs”.

Have you noticed how we have less content / posts than we used to? We have more “users” - I have had 4 alts in the last year, 3 of which I actively maintain so I am 3 of these “monthly active users” all on my lonesome. And Blaze is like upwards of 20 (with good reason, though that level is likely unusual). Conversely, look at communities such as !nathanwpyle@lemmy.world - it had ~4 posts per month routinely, but now has none in the last 2 months. Where did they go? Damn, I REALLY loved those comics too:-(. I don’t have an Instagram account but I see much more content - including related to December - at https://www.instagram.com/nathanwpylestrangeplanet/?hl=en, just not on Lemmy anymore?

When we become known for being the Alt-Left, “Nazi fascist bar” that we are (advocating for extreme violent solutions = the most extreme form of leftist), mainstream people aren’t going to want to hang out here anymore. Admiral Patrick is one of the few that are fighting back. Now you are too, in even so much as asking for an instance that has defederated from the big 3 tankie instances (although imho it’s already too late for that: yes the “tankieness” is contained on those 3, however the extremism that so often goes along with that has spread to beyond those 3 instances - it’s fucking everywhere now), but he’s putting in some EFFORT to clean up this space.

I am halfway thinking of joining dubvee.org tbh, if he’ll have me… sure his method contaminates the modlogs, but it’s something to try to stem the tide of toxicity and extremism? And that’s better than nothing, to at least be able to take a break from it all for a handful of minutes each day and just breathe? I am not against others being free to vent their thoughts, but my thoughts should matter too, at least to myself?

I concede that there are no perfect solutions here.

About Admiral Patrick: really? I had not heard that. That would be horrible if true I agree, but is it? What I did hear is that he preemptively bans people before they comment at all, based on their past history. There is one troll in particular that he mentioned banning despite how they kept making alts (I dunno exactly who, just the situation), and that seems fine to me (assuming the situation was as described). However, every single person that I ask for details refuses to provide any. I did hear indirectly one reason offered: “syncing instance bans to community bans”, which I don’t know what it means but also seems likely to not be nefarious?

Speaking of, I read through !yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com fairly regularly but haven’t seen anything at all for him like that - do you happen to recall any further details that you could search for and send me a link? Searching for like dubvee or admiral or ptz all returns zero hits.

I did see this post in another community: Admin log from DubVee, with text body:

This is from the same instance that randomly bans people from being too “extremist” who have never interacted with it’s communities.

So people seem to be complaining about him banning extremists / tankies, although in the context of this post seems to be presented as a positive “feature”? Seriously though, if somehow the community at yepowertrippingbastards has voted him as a PTB - which again, I can’t find that by searching - please do let me know? A key point there is transparency: if he says one thing but then does another then that’s a PTB, but the instance seems very clear about what’s going on, with text “Offering a safe, chill environment for a better, nicer Lemmyverse.” Essentially it’s a mini-Beehaw, which he also cites as his model.

So if someone doesn’t like it then they don’t need to join, problem solved:-). Other than the Dubvee.Meta community, I am aware of no other communities located on that instance, so unlike Lemmy.ml, it’s not like he’s holding any users or content hostage there - it’s entirely up to the locals there if they want that kind of experience or not, being taken care of by such an admin as would keep away what he deems as trolls.

I don’t know much about infosec.pub, beyond what is said here: https://lemmy.fediverse.observer/list. It is the 18th largest instance iirc, based in Germany, very high uptime, its sidebar has next to no information about it, and it’s fairly small with only 2 admins and ~4k monthly active users. I can add though: I think they must have only recently defederated from Lemmy.ml bc Blaze and I checked all the top 20 at some point. I see no discussion about it in !infosecpub@infosec.pub. A local search also shows nothing. I wonder if most of the uses there even realize that, and notably I wonder if it could be temporary, due to the server sync issues with it a month ago (see here). If so, then joining this themed instance specifically for that temporary condition may lead to regrets…

Oh that’s perfection! So much better than a binary yes/no.

So many apps, like Voyager, simply activate the Lemmy baseline “instance blocking” that does next to nothing to actually block the instance.

I bet there’s a lot of other cool things that Connect can do too.:-)

Sadly, there are no “great” options here:-(.

Side-note: “instance blocking” is misnamed, don’t be mislead - all that does is mute communities on that instance, but it still shows you all of their comments on posts to communities not on that instance (cough Cowbee cough cough), plus they can reply to you, generate constant notifications (for WEEKS and WEEKS on end if they choose to - it’s happened to me, once for hexbear.net and again for lemmygrad.ml, back when my instances were still federated with those, and when I was naive and fresh and had no idea what I was walking into by replying to a post that I had found on All, not having read the community sidebar first), and also they can vote on and influence your content. Only true defederation will prevent the latter though.

1. lemmy.cafe as you saw, but it has some technical problems - e.g. notice how none of the image previews load when you visit? I have no idea what further problems lie behind that one - all I know is that it has persisted for weeks, which does not fill me with confidence. Still, not a bad idea to at least test for yourself?

2. dubvee.org, which has a friendly site admin though a nonstandard (& nonintuitive?) web UI “Tesseract”; he is super aggressive at blocking both the Alt-Right and also the Alt-Left and also trolls regardless of instance; the major down-side being that it is not a wide-spread general-use instance, and limited to W. Virginia USA atm. Anyone who likes to argue may get booted quickly though.

3. quokk.au, although it has only a single admin rather than a team of such, and people say that their requests to join can get ignored for days as a result, also it’s in Australia, so with that geographic distance I would worry about federation of content particularly from Lemmy.World that holds ~80% of the Lemmy users and most of the Fediverse content (at least, this is a major issue for Aussie.Zone also in AU). Here too you could make an account and test it out, prior to recommending to friends? If so, let us know your experiences with it?:-)

4. PieFed allows you to block all the users from any instance of your choice without needing a site admin; this Lemmy alternative also has many fantastic upgrades over Lemmy (categories of communities, hashtags, YouTube video embedding, which Tesseract also offers, and more), however it lacks many of the more foundational aspects (user tagging, searching is primitive, many Notifications do not actually go to what they point at so that gets super frustrating), so while I am located there myself this is not something that I would recommend to everyone, only “early-adopters”, particularly those who can fall back onto a Lemmy alt when necessary.

5. I have heard that the Sync and Connect apps can block all users from any instance of your choice, without needing admin approval. They have a number of other nifty features as well. I have never used either of these, but these might be your best option?

6. Sublinks… well, that’s not an option “soon” at any rate.

7. Otherwise someone would need to spin up a new instance, at which point they can do whatever they choose, but it’s a lot of work, particularly a lot of network bandwidth. Or convince an existing admin team to defed from lemmy.ml? It’s hard enough for most to decide to defed even from lemmygrad.ml and/or hexbear.net though.:-(

More details

Face it: we are a Nazi bar, or rather the Alt-Left equivalent of one. It takes enormous efforts to carve out a corner of this open social web that fights back hard against a Nazi fascist, and most are unwilling to do what it takes. Though slowly but surely, I do see MAJOR improvements over time - e.g. Discuss.Online recently defederated from hexbear (though unfortunately not also Lemmy.ml), so I view that as a strong even if not entirely sufficient step forward.

This essay describes the transition as we can readily observe it happening not just in social media on the internet but also in movies & TV & every other aspect of modern life as well. We see sitting members of Congress use the same principles: if you can do something in 5 seconds, and then move on to the next, and the next, and the next, and the next, and so on, then spending 5 hours let alone 5 days, weeks, months, or years on a project becomes downright “bad”. The latter obviously not meaning in an objective sense but rather a return-on-investment (ROI) calculation, if maximizing profits (or upvote karma or whatever) is one’s goal - and for a Congressperson, that very much is their job, to maximize votes or at least pass the threshold to ensure safe re-elections, then switch to expending that political capital to enrich one’s own pockets (oh uh… and help people no, enrich one’s own pockets exclusively, apparently, more’s the pity).

Aside from that, the paradox of intolerance really is a fundamental principle of the universe: imagine that you had a pen full of a thousand sheep, and you let in one wolf - let’s even say to be kind, b/c he’ll die if you do not? The next day you somehow only have 999 sheep… and you let in 2 more wolves. The next day you have 996 sheep, and you let in 3 more wolves, and so on. It won’t be long before you have no sheep and only wolves left. B-b-but, they PROMISED me that they’d behave!? They PROMISED me that they wouldn’t eat MY face off sheep!?!? We ignore this at our peril. You can do the experiment for yourself: go to Lemmy.ml without being logged into an account and just going through the first couple of pages, count the number of posts that make fun of the Western world - especially the EU and even more especially in particular the USA - or perhaps it’s easier to count those that don’t? (granted, there’s a bunch of purely-Linux ones that do not, and sometimes you’d need to visit the post to read the comments rather than see it instantly from the title) Like here’s an example that I saw just prior to the recent USA elections:

B-b-bUt BoTh SiDeS eQuAl ThO?! Except… they are not though? So many Muslim leaders in America told their followers to vote for Harris - b/c while what Biden did was not great, it will be as nothing compared to what Trump will do - although many waited until sth like 3 days before the election, hoping to wrangle every last ounce of possible concession out of the deal, though it may have been too late, b/c people simply don’t follow the news all that quickly (it would seem). In fairness, there were many issues irt that election, and this was only one of them. It does not change how the Alt-Left tries to put a “spin” that is hyperbolic, false, and most relevant: misleading to the point of being actually disinformation rather than merely misinformation. It is so easy to prop up such a strawman: “none such exist” as want to stop the chaos? Bitch, we ALL want to stop it though?! Well, liberals do, the conservatives want to fucking JOIN in making it happen FASTER! Also, it’s not like Russia actively doing genocide in Ukraine, or China to the Uyghurs, etc. (oh wait…), so I guess somehow it’s “better” to just put Trump in where he will do as he already said: write a blank check for Israel to do whatever they want from now on, including even more genocide. You know, b/c BoTh SiDeS eQuAl, and b/c if someone says it on the internet, then it MUST be true I guess?!

So yeah, according to these people, we are “right-wingers”. B/c people in the USA voting for Kamala Harris rather than voting for Donald Trump and then violently overthrowing all of society is… “right-wing”… somehow?

I will take every last ounce of diversity, from someone arguing in good faith. But I will take none from someone arguing in bad faith. Even if they call me a Nazi, or a coward, or whatever they want to call me - those manipulation tactics don’t matter, what matters is what I choose to do in response.

Exactly what I’m saying. One mark of an extremist is often a kind of moral purity test of their ideology. I too was shocked to find out that I am considered “right-wing”, by the extremist left on places such as Lemmygrad.ml, hexbear.net, and lemmy.ml. The latter is federated with by almost everyone, and they will call you and me as “right-wing”.

Now whether that’s “true” or not… well actually, it is though - if you do not approve of actually irl really murdering your landlord, then you are “right-wing”, in comparison to them. Then again, they also say that they love North Korea - but how many of them have actually picked up and moved there, hrm? 🤣

So I think we are “centrists”, on the global scale. To the left of the Alt-Right, and to the right of the Alt-Left. My language may be odd though.

To people whose purview pertains to the set of “alternative facts”, whether left or right wing, I simply cannot converse - no matter how hard I’ve tried. However to centrists I seem to have little to no trouble making myself understood, with only the slightest efforts? i.e., anyone at all acting in good faith I can outright enjoy discourse with, while anyone acting in bad faith I cannot.

So that is my criteria: it has nothing whatsoever to do with “beliefs”, political or religious or cultural or otherwise, and everything to do with attitude, particularly the willingness to converse with compassion or at the very minimum tolerance to others’ POV.

Does that make sense?

If you are talking about some brand new instance that you just created, you can construct a URL with the community name to find it the first time, then someone from your instance needs to be the first to subscribe/join it. After that, someone just needs to search for it using its name from the Communities link at the top of your instance homepage - making sure that All rather than Local is selected at the top.

PieFed will pull in old posts, I think Lemmy won’t, but either way the old comments and votes are a lost cause, however newer ones (after possibly a bit of a delay, maybe 24 hours unless there’s a larger backlog of things to sync) will automatically sync up from then on (additional caveats exist like locked/removed posts).

So for example to get to the !AskUSA@discuss.online community, you’d go to https://yourinstanceurlhere/c/AskUSA@discuss.online and join (e.g. https://lemm.ee/c/AskUSA@discuss.online is a functional link).

Caveat: the instance (Discuss.Online in the aforementioned example) must already be federated with, which you should see in the https://yourinstanceurlhere/instances, and not also defederated with (lemm.ee barely defederates from anything, but most instances have a much more substantial list of spammers and gore and bad-faith instances that they curate so their users don’t have to do so individually). An easy way to get there: go to homepage, scroll all the way down and click Instances; to see the defederated list click the Blocked Instances tab at the top of that.

But from your current instance lemm.ee, all of this has almost certainly been done for you, as iirc it is the #3 largest instance across the entire Fediverse. Just make sure that searching the Communities list is set to All rather than Local!:-)

Edit: but as for how to discover the community names in the first place, simply browse some existing instance like lemm.ee, you don’t even need an account to see most of them (those not marked as internal-only).

Not everyone wants that, but excellent point about the fact that some do:-).

And there, as now, it would be nice to constrain things.

Though you mentioned the rather powerful counterargument earlier that this was a MAJOR event, and it’s understandable that it’s leaking.

True, and btw I don’t mean that there is not good/great reasons for such even - people are DYING.

I was just pushing that thought since we were initially responding to:

I just wish the top posts on the meme pages were more than just an anti-capitalist caption and a vaguely related image.

It’s creating an environment where people who can’t handle the cultural shifts (e.g. not everyone is neurotypical) are having to heavily curate their experiences.

Omg !tenforward@lemmy.world is also amazing, check it out! Also there’s Risa and the Star Wars memes etc. - there are so many fantastic memes communities available:-).

Separately, you may be interested to know that the entire “vibe” of Lemmy has changed in the last two weeks. Very seriously, check out an instance where you are not logged in and just take a peek at what the most popular content is lately. I’m not suggesting that you wallow in it but you should know what’s going on lately bc it affects the future of us all.

Okay so yeah for actual conservatives totally. The Alt-Right is never going to be convinced no matter how many “facts” you explain to them anyway.

But you are considered a right-winger too, as well as I, by the likes of the folks in hexbear and Lemmygrad and lemmy.ml. We don’t view ourselves that way, but it’s the truth: compared to the likes of the Alt-Left, we legit are more “right-wing” than they are. And for good reason: e.g. we may not appreciate them but we’ve never actually murdered our landlords.

Totally. Maybe we should invent some kind of… oh I dunno, ideological purity test? Surely that would not eat our faces off, hrm? Surely we can exclude only “them”, while keeping “us”.

Smh, it’s always the same. People don’t even see it.