prob best to reply to OP instead of me
A little disclaimer first: I don't know if this post fits here, but I had this idea related to the Lemmy project and this community seems quite adequate for this.
Since Lemmy is using ActivityPub to communicate within its instances, I wondered if it would be possible to extend the aspect of federation with services like Mastodon or Friendica even further as it's given right now. Currently, if you search for an user of Mastodon (as an example), you'll see the profile but non of its contents, because those aren't on a lemmy instance. So my idea was to extend Lemmys federation to follow specific users and debate on their posts in the Lemmy-like style. Even Reddit has a function to put individual users into your respective feed, so I'd be really happy to see this in Lemmy as well. Maybe it would be interesting too if it would be possible to use the feeds of a specific Mastodon/Friendica/... instance as a community to display in the Lemmy feed.
What do you think of the idea?
cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/364580
> The EU via their Horizons Europe program, the [Next Generation Internet](https://ngi.eu) (where e.g. NLnet are associated) (NGI Initiative) are the biggest funders of the [free software projects](https://delightful.club/delightful-fediverse-apps/) that comprise the fedi. Without their support fedi wouldn't be what it is now.
> The European Data Protection Supervisor (EDPS) recently [launched a pilot](https://edps.europa.eu/press-publications/press-news/press-releases/2022/edps-launches-pilot-phase-two-social-media_en) to have both a Peertube and Mastodon instance on the Fediverse, hashtagged #EUVideo and #EUVoice respectively. On these servers official European Commission related institutions as well as individuals working at the EC can have their accounts.
> This recognition of the Fediverse and the interest that exists in entering our decentralized social networking environment is an important development. With success of the pilot there will undoubtedly be a follow-up and more initiatives to come. First results until now is that the parties that 'test the waters' are very happy on the kinds of interactions and quality of discussions they encounter on the Fediverse.
> That is no wonder, of course. Fediverse offers **social networking** that is more personal and friendly, than corporate social media which is about 'broadcasting' and influencing.
> Current pilot can be a ramp up to something much bigger:
> #### Fediverse: United in Diversity
> A social networking technology where _everyone_ can find their place and participate, that is not controlled by Big Tech and commercial corporate interests. For the European Commission there is the opportunity to passionately put their support behind fostering **"The European Take On Social Networking"**. Fediverse aligns to the NGI Initiative who envision an [Internet for Humans](https://www.ngi.eu/about/).
> ##### How you can help
> To progress towards this vision it is important for the EU/EC pilot to be a success. As fedizen you can help with this. Here are a couple of ways to offer your support:
> → **Follow, boost, favourite the [EUVoice accounts](https://social.network.europa.eu/explore) on Mastodon and [EUVideo](https://tube.network.europa.eu/videos/overview) Peertube videos.**
> - These early adopter accounts are _still learning_ how the Fediverse works, what the culture is and e.g. how we value accessibility and image captions. You can help them discover.
> - Many accounts are still Twitter bridges and broadcast only. Some others respond and interact with fedizens, notably [@EC_OSPO](https://social.network.europa.eu/@EC_OSPO), [@EDPS](https://social.network.europa.eu/@EDPS) and [@EC_NGI](https://social.network.europa.eu/@EC_NGI). The operators of the Twitter bridges don't know what the value of Fediverse is to them, and if they should spend time with us. All reactions by us are monitored, so we can help them here.
> - There are people giving highly toxic reactions to almost any EC-related toot. There are many things to be critical about. Politics is about the discussion of these issues, and good arguments help more than toxicity. Here we have opportunity to show we are different than the cesspit that Twitter is.
> - Do not expect too much, too soon. There is a complex organization structure at the EC, and given the politically sensitive nature all communications are weighed carefully and undergo multiple levels of approval. Plans move slowly, but they are in motion.
> → **Let's give the fedi accounts more followers than they have on Twitter, if possible.**
> - For instance the [Director General of Informatics at DG DIGIT](https://social.network.europa.eu/users/EC_DIGIT_director_general), Veronica Gaffey, has 191 fedi followers in short time, while [on Twitter](https://twitter.com/gaffey_veronica) she has 279 followers.
> → **If you are on Twitter, then help encourage EC institutions to also have an account on EUVoice.**
> - A notable example is the [European Parliament](https://twitter.com/euparl_en). Respond to their tweets and name-drop the fedi as THE place to be.
> → **We are gathering a group of volunteers on [SocialHub](https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks) that can [help train EC representatives](https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/looking-for-volunteers-organize-a-fediverse-training-for-eu-representatives/2437) in how to use the Fediverse effectively and understand its culture.**
> - The activities we do here, starting later this year, stand to benefit any administration or institution interested to join the Fediverse, not just EU representatives.
> This post is also [cross-posted](https://discuss.coding.social/t/help-make-the-european-commission-euvoice-and-euvideo-pilot-a-success/101) to the [Social Coding Movement](https://coding.social) that is dedicated among others to establish a Peopleverse on top of the fedi. Social Coding is not yet officially launched.
cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/346124
> # Innovation requires resources
> Innovation happens wherever we put our efforts towards. The space race and the technologies it gave us is an example. Finding ways of reducing the cost of production of commodities is another. The green transition is another example.
> These are the bounds that determine how innovation happens in federated social networks. They will only innovate when there is enough effort put towards them. Beyond technical innovation (perhaps in a TOR kind-of-network way, or in a Git kind-of-version-control way), a full-fledged piece of software that is effective and attractive enough for people to use, takes resources.
> These resources largely refer to labor power. Remember, we're not talking about maintenance costs, but development costs. Programmers require money to survive.
> # FLOSS is no exception
> Yes, FLOSS software can survive with volunteers, but even those volunteers have to pay their bills. Yes, the internet plus (as Bruce Schneier defines it), copyleft licenses, and already-existing technical know-how reduce the cost of production, but the costs are there nonetheless. Someone needs to do the work.
> I think about open source projects I admire. Diaspora received exceptional funding, relative to its goals. Signal was heavily funded by donations. Element has a business model that lets them work towards improving Matrix. Linux has many companies that depend on it and are able to finance innovation on it.
> This argument, applied to Lemmy, makes me wonder. How do Nutomic and Dessalines handle it? Are they precious exceptions that drive Lemmy forward because of their personal values and their willingness to use their technical know-how for the development of this platform? Will Lemmy thrive without them?
> This brings me to another point: FLOSS and federated software has the advantage that many people are willing to spend their time working towards laudable goals. They are not motivated by profit as much as improving humanity.
> # FLOSS has a problem that others systematically address: making things attractive
> The issue with FLOSS projects is that they mainly respond to thought-out worldviews. That is, people are willing to engage with this kind of software because of logical reasons (*logos*, as Aristotle and those guys would call it). It is rarer to have people engage with FLOSS and federated software because of emotions (*pathos*).
> Unfortunately for humans, we are emotional creatures. I get put off by how unattractive the Free Software Foundation's website is, despite loving the values that the foundation stands for. I get put off by using terminals, despite the fact that plenty of FLOSS software does not have GUIs. I hate Thunderbird's calendar, despite using it daily.
> Companies with investors and FLOSS projects with enough funding know this and therefore pay graphical designers, user experience experts, and sometimes market researchers to make products attractive. This takes money.
> # Conclusion
> And that brings us back to my point: for free software to be *chosen* by most people, it has to have enough labor behind it to make it both effective and attractive. This is the hurdle it needs to be overcome.
> ## Notes on my sources
> These are reflections that arose after a series of conversations with a friend who works at an 'innovation office'. His job is explicitly to design an 'innovation ecosystem', which attempts to create innovation with minimal investment. Everyone at that office knows this is bullshit. Innovation rarely comes without money. Therefore, they basically look for investors for projects that don't have enough money. That's it.
> This view, that innovation requires investment, is shared by Anwar Shaikh and classical economics.
> However, it's more complicated with the research behind innovation.
> Let's take 'platforms of innovation'. For example, cosmopolitan cities, the internet, and universities are hubs of innovation. However, it's a mistake to think that these are 'neutral' in terms of costs. All of them require operational costs. All of them imply costs of technical training. Even here, there are costs that cannot be ignored.
> If we look at mission-oriented innovation, the situation becomes clearer. Universities doing cancer-related research, States doing green energy-related research, or companies doing market-related research all clearly align with the argument I made above.
> Finally, it's perfectly possible that the argument I made above is not at all original. In fact, I doubt it is. If anything, it could be similar to a high-school student discovering their own proof of the pythagorean theorem: it's not new for the community of knowers who already know it, but it's new from the point of view of the student. At least I get to share this with you and hear your thoughts about it.
> Oh, and given that Lemmy doesn't have terms of service yet, I wanted to make sure I could share this in the future. I licensed it under a [Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 4.0 International License](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/4.0/). Weird. I know. Oh well. At least you get to share it without fear!
Forge Federation Needs Your Help 🤗
🚀 Join the [forge federation](https://matrix.to/#/#general-forgefed:matrix.batsense.net) matrix chatroom, or the (less active) [gitea federation](https://matrix.to/#/#gitea-federation-chat:matrix.org) room.
Note: Responses on cross-posted threads may be missed. The best way to indicate your interest is to reply to the SocialHub forum topic, or alternatively on the [Fediverse announcement here](https://mastodon.social/@humanetech/108344611621798508).
Few days ago I discovered that any time you follow a fediverse account on a different instance than your one, the server you are on mirrors the original content of any toot/post, and I think this is a huge issue, because then every Fediverse server/instance could quickly get overloaded from contents from other servers!
Am I right?
I've always thought that toots/posts from other instances were just "empty shells" retrieving the content on demand.
Do we have a need for a good **#Botiquette** that can also be enforced or encouraged by the various social apps of the Fediverse?
What are your ideas and considerations?
Add them to the referenced Fediverse Futures SocialHub topic if you want them to be part of technical elaboration, if/when it comes to that.
See also my toot at: https://mastodon.social/@humanetech/108225431329625395
I recently started thinking again about the [Social knowledge fabrics](https://nerdica.net/display/44b525e5-cb53ee6497fa0339-968ad293) discussion, and it seems to me that one of the biggest obstacles for fedi to become one is the following. The things we refer to as "threads" are actually "branches of a tree". You have a trunk, basically the whole fedi, each post is a branch, each branch can itself ramify into branches, but all the branches stay independent.
It would be useful if a discussion branch was not only shaped like a thread, but also had the usefulness of one : sewing, or tying together different discussion topics. Sometimes I think again about an old discussion when participating in a new one, and so I cite it. But this message is still fundamentally part of the new discussion, while the newly established link should be of equal interest to participants of both threads.
What we miss is for that message to be part of both conversations, or a clear way to automatically signify to both threads that something new happens. Of course, this can be done by hand, writing a comment in each cited branch to point to the new one. But we won't remeber to do that everytime, or we will not want to "necrobump", or we just don't want to make the extra effort. So it would be interesting if the relations were established automatically. For example the way I proposed for Friendica's quote-shares in the linked URL, or the way GitHub handles issue that cite each other.
Maybe two old topics will come to know about each other that way, effectively being sewed by the new thread.
How can we develop free software sustainably?
After discussion on Mastodon, I found these criteria were most wanted by the community that was willing to engage me there:
- Accessibility of any scheme should match or even be greater than the accessibility of contributing to free software is today.
- Decentralization of decision making. Any scheme shouldn't require loyalty to some organization, person or persons.
- Independence of Big Tech. Any scheme should work with or without the consent of Big Tech.
The lack of deeper integrations between different app types and the federated identity issue (every instance their own signup and user acccount) form significant barrier to widespread collaboration is my general observation.
For instance in any well-received toot with a link to a [SocialHub](https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks) forum topic on average no one takes the effort to respond on SocialHub. Mostly the discussion remains microblogging, and then it sinks into history when activity peters out. The insights and collective knowledge isn't gathered and lost.
Basically I want to make a game bot that promotes interaction between instances; so, each instance is a tribe, and you have to go off and play against people on other instances.
But I haven't really figured out what the actual game should be. I'm loosely basing it on the idea of Tribal Wars, but I don't think that would work very well since it's intensely precise - most worlds have a forced attack launch delay of 100ms, and this is for a reason. I think something more turn-based is fine.
But does it even need to be a territory-control game in the first place? Card games maybe not great since having a hidden hand is annoying.
On the new [Discuss Social Coding](https://discuss.coding.social) (that has not officially launched yet) I posted some notes on a particular challenge the fedi imho faces, that hampers adoption and poses growing risks in the future if not dealt with appropriately.
The notes leave a lot of things I've been looking deeper into unmentioned, but you may find them interesting nonetheless.
EDIT: More precise titles.
The way we sort comments on lemmy today is through giving everyone the ability to up and downvote any comment. You upvote comments you want to be more visible and downvote comments you want to have less visibility.
I think ranking comments are great if some opinions contribute more.
Imagine the value of a comment can be determined before voting. Perhaps with a panel of judges. With rankings -10 to 10 where -10 is dangerous misinformation, 0 has no meaningful contribution and 10 is perhaps mindblowingly enlightening or empowering.
# Example of lemmy style sorting
Lets say a post is submitted. On the first day, it received the comments with a judges score (user, score):
(monkey, 8), (zebra, -2), (horse, 5), (panda, 3), (rhino, 3).
A post get the most visibility the first day. Therefore, those who post early can get a lot of votes.
However on the second day, one user submitted the comment:
A this point in time the post doesnt have that many voters. And the top comments has increased visibility, so for every vote flower gains, the top comment might have received another. So we end up with the final ranking:
Monkey, horse, panda, flower, rhino, zebra.
So it ends up only ranking similar to panda and rhino even though the score was much higher. There was a mismatch between votes and score.
# Solution, the topoligical sort
We should concider moving away from voting on comments individually to voting comparatively. Where you perhaps determine the most valuable comment out of a selection. Then a topological sort can put the best comment on top.
So even if flower is late to the party, their insight is still spread.
This video is meant moreso to serve as a pitch to those who are already interested in promoting these values. The focus is really on giving more organization to free culture projects and initiatives.
Really what’s needed more than anything else is drive, but if you have any skills or projects you’d like to share, let us know.
If PeerTube isn't working, the video is also hosted on YouTube:
cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/173958
[@email@example.com](https://lemmy.ml/u/deadsuperhero) wonderful article highlights many points that need to be explored, challenges to be tackled, for healthy [Fediverse Futures](https://lemmy.ml/c/fediversefutures) ...
> Over the years, I've been studying a handful of different fediverse platforms that bring a lot of interesting concepts to the table.
> As someone that has studied and [reported on](https://wedistribute.org/) the developments of these various systems, I've decided to put together a summary of things I'd like to one day put into my own federated platform, should I ever develop enough brainpower to actually develop one.
Starting with the posted link and in more recent discussions of [Standardising on ActivityPub Groups](https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/standardizing-on-activitypub-groups/1984/28) I have been advocating for some time to make "Community" a native concept of the Fediverse. Something that better represents communities in the real world: groups and individuals with intricate social relationships between them.
The following [toot by @cicatriz_jdr](https://myasstodon.xyz/@cicatriz_jdr/107782488647156937) provides one reason:
![Nerdy man in shirt with beer in hand on a party explains the Fediverse to a woman.](https://files.mastodon.social/cache/media_attachments/files/107/782/488/692/679/158/small/7ad5ffeb1c32dc9e.jpeg)
_**""... and these 'instances' are all on separate servers, so it's totally decentralized. but posts on one instance 'federate' with other instances, except when they don't, which basically half the time. now here's where it gets tricky...""**_
And the [follow-up by @throwawaygiraffoid](https://mastodon.social/@throwawaygiraffoid/107784097243651979) is more hilarious even:
_**"THERAPIST: And those ""instances"" are they ""federating"" with us right now?"**_
With a community-native fedi you can avoid talking on the INFRASTRUCTURE level..
## Fediverse: Peopleverse!
##### _"Yes, the Fediverse is an online world-wide social space where there are numerous communities where you can meet people. They all have different themes and activities and you just join where lies your interest. Or create your own community for your friends and family on whatever has your passion."_
We need a more holistic approach to fedi development and evolution. We need product designers, graphics artists, UX / UI / Interaction designers, futurists and visionaries to join the dev folks. Everyone is encouraged to join here and enrich our views on what Fediverse can be with diverse and different viewpoints, and to stimulate brainstorming, creativity, thinking out-of-the-box and crazy, wild ideas.
Choose a descriptive title that speaks for itself.
Be substantive in your comments and stay on-topic.
Treat others as you want to be treated, respectful.
Don’t be overly critical, we are just brainstorming.