I am @humanetech at Mastodon, #FOSS and #Fediverse advocate, mod at SocialHub, and facilitator of Humane Tech Community.

I help fight tech harms and “Promote Solutions that Improve Wellbeing, Freedom and Society”.

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Cake day: api. 06, 2021

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cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/328269 > Fedijam 6: Cut Budget Edition \ > Friday 20:00 UTC -> Sunday 24:00 \ > Your game goes here: \ > https://itch.io/jam/fedijam-6 \ > Talking goes here: \ > https://matrix.to/#/#fedijam:m.wfr.moe \ > Post crazy theme suggestions in comments or reply here: \ > https://mastodon.technology/@houkimenator/108507645911003343 > > Also [the organiser is looking for assistance with some parts of the jam](https://mastodon.technology/@houkimenator/108475414550010065)
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An update to this topic… in the context of Code Forge Federation there was another discussion where I dropped a link to this Lemmy post:

https://layer8.space/@RyunoKi/108520016228507552

An interesting angle from the perspective of the software development domains related to Code Forges is what Federated Moderation and Delegated Moderation bring within reach. Because with some imagination this can be extended and encompass Software Project Governance (to give the domain a name). In other words the domain where Maintainers of a software project operate. In FOSS projects this is an important and delicate subject. There are countless examples where e.g. a BDFL maintenance model or the sole maintainer gone missing, leads to project failure or forks.

Won’t further elaborate this idea, just leaving as-is. Forge federation community can be found on Matrix in Forge Federation General chatroom.


cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/327846 > !["This is fine" meme. First frame: "lol, as if we need more social tech". Second frame: "This is fine. They are not fedi".](https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/3bdfe388-b637-48da-b5d4-78b3e33a0a8d.jpeg)
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!["This is fine" meme. First frame: "lol, as if we need more social tech". Second frame: "This is fine. They are not fedi".](https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/3bdfe388-b637-48da-b5d4-78b3e33a0a8d.jpeg)
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@dessalines@lemmy.ml I wonder why my comment is not visible when I search on the post URL in Mastodon, while all the other comments are visible? Are those masto-side bugs? First time I did a search the comment above was already made, so shouldn’t be some stale cache or something.


Would also like to mention the Matrix chatroom, where active development takes place: https://matrix.to/#/#general-forgefed:matrix.batsense.net


Like many others these kinds of initiatives trigger an urge with me to be dismissive, write a witty toot, send a meme, etc. And I’m guilty of doing so at various occasions.

But being a passionate advocate for the Fediverse to come to its full potential and thrive, I should avoid doing so. It contributes to a widespread complacency that fedi has established itself, is in a strong position, and will only continue to grow and prosper some more. This is far from where we are. The deeper I dive into all-things-fedi, the more my concerns for its future grows. There are serious threats and major challenges to overcome (I am going to add “complacency” as another challenge).

Though there are various threats for disruption, the currently popular apps - Mastodon in the lead - have least to fear. The ‘microblogging-verse’ is best established and can continue to grow significantly in numbers of fedizens participating. Entrance of new apps, application types, having new kinds of features, is where the biggest pain points are. Here fedi is evolving in a haphazard way that will destroy interoperability in the long run.

And then there are major features that are lacking (or at least not broadly adopted), like distributed / nomadic identity (Zap project have this). I see competing initiatives putting those first on the list, which is smart.

Whatever we think of narcisist billionaires, surveillance capitalist walled gardens, crypto bro-ism, vulture capital-driven startups, etcetera… They may disrupt us, so we better monitor their tech.

A person like Jack Dorsey has a humongous network, could likely easily raise millions of bucks, and formate a group of expert developers that work fulltime on creating something not all too bad, and then create a big media hype to let it gain adoption.

We are millions of fedizens. It may be critical mass to get more good apps in the air and gaining popularity. But in numbers it is nothing, what a well-marketed competitor app + ecosystem might reach in a relatively short time.

This Web5 thing here, is in large part based on open standards that have been in development for a long time. Of course with Jack in the loop there’s blockchain involved (the Ion project). But AFAICS all the DID and Verifiable Credentials stuff could also work without blockchain. I don’t have a good overview of all the identity drafts and projects out there, but these standards may not be the worst to bet on for the future.


Yes, and the input to fediverse.party is this delightful list:

It has a couple more apps and links sourcecode + license, programming language used. There’s also:


Can’t you search with the full URL there? I.e. https://lemmy.ca/c/elon


cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/279006 > Note: Responses on cross-posted threads may be missed. The best way to indicate your interest is to reply to the SocialHub forum topic, or alternatively on the [Fediverse announcement here](https://mastodon.social/@humanetech/108344611621798508).
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cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/279006 > Note: Responses on cross-posted threads may be missed. The best way to indicate your interest is to reply to the SocialHub forum topic, or alternatively on the [Fediverse announcement here](https://mastodon.social/@humanetech/108344611621798508).
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Note: Responses on cross-posted threads may be missed. The best way to indicate your interest is to reply to the SocialHub forum topic, or alternatively on the [Fediverse announcement here](https://mastodon.social/@humanetech/108344611621798508).
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cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/273923 > Hurray 🥳 > > On this 14th birthday test yourself on your knowledge about the fedi's history and our present state, and share the results with your fellow fedizens.
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Hurray 🥳 On this 14th birthday test yourself on your knowledge about the fedi's history and our present state, and share the results with your fellow fedizens.
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Posting from Lemmy and federating to Mastodon used to work fine. And then commenting on that from Mastodon also worked. I am not sure now, as there have been some issues likely due to changes in the latest Mastodon release. I sent a comment from Mastodon that should also appear in this thread (namely this one).


Do you mean shut down on the Twitter side? I can imagine that twitter applies rate-limiting and intervenes if it is only one-way traffic.


Not really on topic, but:

SocialHub: The community of people evolving the fediverse technical ecosystem and (ideally) the open standards that are fedi’s foundation.


Yes, you cannot avoid a malign bot. It may pose as a normal person and can just ignore any conventions. Sometimes you can detect them, for instance because their interactions are inhumanly fast.

But here I am talking about Bots and bot developers that intend to be well-behaved. There we can have botiquette. Besides that, in the SocialHub post I am not only talking about polite conventions, but also things that can be enforced. Like replacing the #nobots thingy on the profile, with a real profile property that allows the server to restrict access based on a setting. Or disallow access based on missing source code or maintainer contact point.

I should have chosen a better title though, as with ‘formalization’ I also mean extensions at the Fediverse protocol level.

Another such extension might be block- and allow-lists specifically for bots (different than regular moderation blocks). If well-behaved bots are properly described, then I could filter an allowlist from the long list of known bots (‘known’ being the ones my instance knows about).

Examples of accounts marked as ‘bots’ that are not well-behaved:

  • I get followed by bots and there is zero information on their profile. Why do they follow me? What do they do with my info / data?
  • On Matrix you have the Matrix Traveller Bot. It enters your chatroom and sits there idle for a couple of days and then leaves. What does it do? You have to go to matrix.org to figure that out, and it is not easy to find out exactly either.

Yes, this is a very good point. I haven’t heard of cases like this yet, but it is something that’s just waiting to happen. I am all for trusting people, being trust-first in a society that promotes distrust before trust. But in this case consequences of doing so can be dire, and it is quite a risk you take. Besides for the purposes trolling, someone could also silently monetize collected data by selling it to shady harvesting companies.

Currently various research is underway for going towards a peer-to-peer fediverse. Well actually a hybrid decentralization with a combination of p2p and federated services. In those p2p clients you don’t need to self-host a server, just install an app.

Other than that currently we have to go from reputation of the admins. If they have a proven track record and many people vouching for their trustworthiness, then we can be reasonably confident in choosing their instance.


Do we have a need for a good **#Botiquette** that can also be enforced or encouraged by the various social apps of the Fediverse? What are your ideas and considerations? Add them to the referenced Fediverse Futures SocialHub topic if you want them to be part of technical elaboration, if/when it comes to that. See also my toot at: https://mastodon.social/@humanetech/108225431329625395
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cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/248395 > Nice introduction by [Per Axbom](https://social.axbom.com/@axbom) who also just rejoined the Fediverse.
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Nice introduction by [Per Axbom](https://social.axbom.com/@axbom) who also just rejoined the Fediverse.
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And read the press release: EDPS launches pilot phase of two social media platforms. And these happen to be Mastodon and Peertube, folks 🥳



Nice, and I mostly agree with it. I also translated that ‘fedi speak’ about “ruling class” to market dynamics in my reply. Basically the forces of hypercapitalism taking, first a foothold, and then control. I am very much in favor of de-emphasizing the role of money in our society, but at the same time don’t reject the notion that we have an economy where money is a natural part, a necessary tool, to make it work at scale. I am not against forms of monetization in the free software community, but they should be oriented towards establishing sustainable business and have a different set of values that are safeguarded in this new environment. By extension I see that for the future of the fediverse too. But it is tricky, of course. Solving the decades old stuggle of FOSS and ‘tragedy of the commons’ basically. Though some people have negative outlooks of how that struggle is progressing (with the log4j security event, for instance) I feel a very positive vibe emerging. There are a lot initiatives moving into the proper direction. And many of those can be found on the fediverse.


PS. @dessalines@lemmy.ml that issue you mentioned with masto dot social federation, is that also why this branch of the thread doesn’t show up when looking from masto UI, while others do appear?


This strategy can be said to be a form of “Embrace, Extend, Extinguish” and can certainly happen to the fediverse. Even without the “Extinguish” part we might be in trouble. In this Lemmy post we are discussing corporates taking control.


When it comes to funding I also think that we need more of that to happen beyond the individual app level as contributions to - what I call - ‘substrate formation’, i.e. the people, processes and specs on which all apps rely. Focus on the health of the ecosystem as a whole. If we look at grants that are available, for instance, all of them offer funding for very specific research, often resulting in apps being built.

But afterwards these apps start to bring their own extensions and variations to the specs to the ecosystem and have to spend a metric ton of time to figure out how to integrate well enough with the next app. This happens haphazardly as I mentioned above. In order to have the specs and ‘official’ extensions be properly documented and to get them broadly adopted a whole lot of community effort and collaboration needs to take place. And this isn’t happening. The work that this involves is too much to ask of sole individual volunteers, plus they are the boring and unthankful chores.

Though how this is best set up is another matter altogether. We don’t want a committee or a NGO or other formal structure with authority. Our organization where this collaboration takes place needs to take the fediverse culture and grassroots nature into account.


Yes, it can. I’ve posted a lot about that over time. There’s a kind of complacency that “we’ve made it” but in reality the fediverse is incredibly fragile. Now I advocate mostly on the development / technology side of things. The fediverse with its 3-5 million fedizens is supported on software side by 100-200 active developers. The average project has a single developer. Mastodon has 2 maintainers. That is an incredibly tiny base. One small corporate jumping on the hype train basically. I sometimes say that fediverse manages to be interesting… for exploitation. But not strong to withstand a corporate onslaught.

Things get worse when we look at the evolution of the (technical) ecosystem as a whole. After the open interoperability standards became final, they didn’t evolve any further. Extensions were made mostly on individual app level and not made readilly accessible to others. New app developers have a very hard time onboarding and integrating with other apps involves reverse-engineering from code bases on an app-by-app basis. Overall interoperability deteriorates over time, if there’s not more collaborative attention for fedi’s ecosystem evolution.

The potential of the Fediverse is much bigger than what we have now. Currently Microblogging dominates. But there are so many different app types that have social aspects that could lend themselves to be federated. If that would happen and integrations between different app types become more seamless and deeper, a real “social fabric” would appear that walled garden corporates would find hard to compete with. In that situation the fediverse as a whole will start generating its own network effects. If have - for me personally - defined a vision of the Peopleverse for the fedi future, which is more social-oriented, than the current tech-oriented fediverse. Fediverse (technical) --> Peopleverse (social).

Of course after a corporate takeover there will always be a niche where the ‘old fedi’ can still be found, just like on the corporate web you can still find delightful personal blogs, bulletin boards. But it won’t be the same, and it will likely be harder to find. If Twitter would embrace ActivityPub - what many fedizens hope for - then fediverse will be sorely disrupted, I am afraid.

PS. I wrote more on this in Fediverse Futures community, and recently took some notes on fixing the technology adoption lifecycle and having a shared technology vision.


Well, if you spread out that number then it is also about 1 person per project. Mastodon has 2 maintainers (didn’t check but they likely have some active contributors as well and a community that shares some of the burden too).


What advocates need to do is to focus on building a solid foundation within the Fediverse

Agreed. Utterly important and at the same time the Achilles Heel of the Fediverse. I am advocating on the developer side of this, and recently created a poll about how many people are developing the fedi, upon which millions of fedizens rely. That number is likely little more than a hundred persons, working mostly individually and alone. That is shockingly few. And it gets worse if looking at the evolution of the (technical) ecosystem, where there’s hardly any collaboration at all. The open standards have stalled from their recommendation status onwards, and only progress since was mostly app-specific plus what devs gleaned from each other’s codebases. On the dev side my conclusion is that the technology adoption lifecycle is broken and that we need to fix it by focusing on the unique dynamics that exist in our grassroots community of fedizens. Some of those are likely (and hopefully) to be addressed in the Social Coding Movement, but that hasn’t officially launched yet.


Also the Linked Data nature of the underlying data would make it possible to create all different kinds of associations, not just a plain cross-ref link.

This seems interesting, but I must say I don’t directly see an application of this in the context of microblogging/commenting. Maybe you can inspire us here? 😀

Instead of just a link you can attach more metadata. Like your link is an ‘academic citation’ or an ‘attribution’ and give reference to the license. Or provide information that allows you create something like the popup dialogs that appear on Wikipedia links, with an image to it, etc.



cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/228032 Quoting [lostinlight](https://mastodon.xyz/@lightone) who maintains Distributopedia: > 🙃 Invitation 🙃 > >If you create any art / promo materials about #Fediverse under CC licenses, please, add them to this collection: > >https://codeberg.org/lostinlight/distributopia/src/branch/main/sticker-bay >https://codeberg.org/lostinlight/distributopia/src/branch/main/sticker-bay/promo-1 > >Also, please, use them!
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Quoting [lostinlight](https://mastodon.xyz/@lightone) who maintains Distributopedia: > 🙃 Invitation 🙃 > >If you create any art / promo materials about #Fediverse under CC licenses, please, add them to this collection: > >https://codeberg.org/lostinlight/distributopia/src/branch/main/sticker-bay >https://codeberg.org/lostinlight/distributopia/src/branch/main/sticker-bay/promo-1 > >Also, please, use them!
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The lack of deeper integrations between different app types and the federated identity issue (every instance their own signup and user acccount) form significant barrier to widespread collaboration is my general observation. For instance in any well-received toot with a link to a [SocialHub](https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks) forum topic on average no one takes the effort to respond on SocialHub. Mostly the discussion remains microblogging, and then it sinks into history when activity peters out. The insights and collective knowledge isn't gathered and lost.
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cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/208058 > Elementary my dear Watson, namely ...
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