They do have a plan, but it doesn’t include finding a peaceful solution and a path to long standing peace.
Yup, the Israeli State does not give a single shit about innocent Palestinians. They’re quite happy to continue oppressing them, because when the oppressed ‘suddenly’ become radicalised and fight back it gives the Israeli State an excellent excuse to take more land and displace more Palestinians.
Israel is showing the world it’s not trying to be an apartheid state, but a genocidal one.
Anyone who thinks Israelis differentiate between Palestinians and Hamas terrorists is dreaming. It’s one people against another. If anything the Israelis lump all Palestinians together AND the Arabs in the region.
Well if everyone is dead then there is peace right /s
"negative peace "
So same as the rest of the region? There’s no party with a peaceful plan here, including Palestine.
We all know what the endgame is.
Please…enlighten us
The Gaza strip ceases to exist when it’s taken by force and “settlers” move in so it becomes part of Israel. Millions of Palestinians die in refugee camps.
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Taken by force? It was taken by force 56 years ago. Since then the Palestinian population in Gaza has increased about 7-fold.
And there were already Israeli settlements there. They were dismantled in 2005 and the settlers forcibly removed by Sharon’s government.
Yea, but Sharon was a lot more sane than bibi… it seems like that asshole has done everything in their power to roll those changes back.
Are we talking about the same Sharon that Palestinians hold responsible for the Sabra and Shatila massacre? And the same Sharon whose visit to Al-Aqsa was rightly or wrongly said to be the proximate cause of the Second Intifada (and which ultimately allowed him to come to power)? The same Sharon who built the wall between the West Bank beyond the Green Line effectively annexing large chunks of land in all but name? That Sharon? Just want to make sure that we’re talking about the same guy
Yup, much more sane than Netanyahu.
Bibi is almost certainly gone the moment the military operations are over. Something like 90% of Israelis hold him responsible for the attacks and want him out.
He’ll be around through the unity government while military operations are conducted, but there’s essentially no chance he has any part of what comes after.
If it depends on him resigning it won’t happen. He is in a survivalist state. He doesn’t care about the outcome of the war as long as he remains in power. He doesn’t care what happens. The only thing he is working on in a time of war is his image and blaming figures from decades ago for this situation.
It was under Israeli occupation following the Six-Day War until the PNA was given a kind of on-paper authority over it according to the Oslo Accords (which, along with the EUBAM agreements and such, basically gave Israel full siege power over Gaza on all sides). It’s a whopping 141 square miles, I don’t know what pointing to a population increase is supposed to demonstrate.
The situation before October 7th was that of a clear division between Palestinian population inside the Gaza strip and Israeli population to the north and east. Now:
Israeli minister without portfolio Gideon Sa’ar told Channel 12 News that Gaza “must be smaller at the end of the war” and that “there should be an area that is classified as a security zone where whoever enters is intercepted.” He added: “We must make the end of our campaign clear to everyone around us. Whoever starts a war against Israel must lose territory.”[260][261]
In the context of several past instances where Israel has, in order: (a) claimed a territory citing military purposes (b) settlements were built on the military area © claimed the area as its own land because it has Israeli settlements on it - we have absolutely no reason to expect otherwise, particularly given that figures in the Israeli government and media *have been explicitly calling for this:
She noted that Israeli public officials have openly advocated for another Nakba, the term for the events of 1947-1949 when over 750,000 Palestinians were expelled from their homes and lands during the hostilities that led to the establishment of the State of Israel. The Naksa, which led to Israel’s occupation of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip in 1967, displaced 350,000 Palestinians.
Israeli member of Knesset Ariel Kallner on Sunday called for a second ‘Nakba’ to take place in Gaza amid ongoing armed conflict between Hamas and the Israeli army.
“Right now, one goal: Nakba! A Nakba that will overshadow the Nakba of 48. Nakba in Gaza and Nakba to anyone who dares to join! their Nakba, because like then in 1948, the alternative is clear,” Kallner wrote on X, formerly known as Twitter.
So skeptical. And then a few hours later the US gives its blessing for exactly that: https://lemmy.ml/post/6687184 .
And the Israeli defense chief says “troops will soon see Gaza ‘from inside’”
So, for execution of this plan they gave to sector Gaza autonomy and removed (forcefully) Jewish settlements from there. Yeah. Totally makes sense.
Other commenters have added good answers, basically the strong feeling everywhere is this won’t stop until Hamas is utterly wiped out, and by that time Gaza will be too and it’s inhabitants either destroyed or refugeed out.
Annihilation.
The plan: more settlements, more oppression, more land grabs.
FTA:
“Israel has called up a record 360,000 reservists”
Gaza has 365 square kilometers. 141 square miles.
https://www.britannica.com/summary/Gaza-Strip
That seems like an awful lot of soldiers to square meters.
You do realize that this is likely to become a 3 front war. Lebanon in the north. And Bibi has to cowtow to his settler base in the West Bank.
I could definitely see that, Israel has not been shy about invading Southern Lebanon in the past.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_occupation_of_Southern_Lebanon
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And one of those fronts will effectively be with iran. You seriously don’t want to fuck with the resources they have to throw into war.
I wonder whether Iran can actually spare an outright war. There is clearly a lot of anti-government energy flowing in Iran, and that won’t have been stamped out by their crackdown on it.
I wonder whether most everyday Iranians would support a war with Israel.
Granted, it’s not likely Iran gets directly involved - they’ll just drive their Hezbollah prop.
I wonder whether Iran can actually spare an outright war. There is clearly a lot of anti-government energy flowing in Iran, and that won’t have been stamped out by their crackdown on it.
I guess it depends on how much the “helping our fellow Muslims” stuff works. I know it would in Egypt at least.
Iran wouldn’t need to radically shift their budget… the revolutionary guard gets buckets of oil money and maintains a constant high state of readiness.
Yeah, Russia’s initial push against all of Ukraine was reportedly about 100-200k soldiers.
I think that was a little bit different in that a) everyone (the West included!) expected Ukraine to just roll over, and b) a lot of those troops weren’t told they were actually going to war, they thought it was just a training mission… the poor bastards.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/04/russian-soldiers-ukraine-anger-duped-into-war
Israeli troops aren’t under any illusion about what they’re doing.
FYI - Getting lots of reports on comments in this thread. We are currently reviewing and re-writing the rules in the Sidebar so I’m choosing to not remove any of them YET. That’s not to say it won’t happen LATER.
I don’t want to put anyone in a position where something would be removed under the old rules, but not the new rules or vice versa.
Be aware, things are changing. Hopefully in the next 24 hours.
Until then, Wheaton’s Rule: Don’t be a dick.
Also, Downvote is not an “I disagree button”, it’s a “this comment doesn’t contribute to the discussion, we are all dumber for having heard it, I award you no points button”.
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Even Israel doesn’t have a blank check to recreate the holocaust in broad daylight. A ground invasion to stamp out terror is cleaner in that sense.
Note: I could be very, very wrong, but the ruling Israeli far right has been pretty clear about what they wanna do to Gaza.
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There are quotes of soliders, officers and generals in reserves saying “We will do what needs to be done, but we won’t commit the war crimes you’re asking.” Almost verbatim.
I mean they then proceeded to bomb Palestinians who were supposed to be in safe locations or fleeing along safe routes. Not saying the IDF is fall of war criminals that wanna drink the blood of Palestinian children, but “we won’t commit the war crimes you’re asking” is a little too late.
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No I’m not talking about that one. Remember a week or so ago when they designated evacuation spots that would be safe from airstrikes then airstriked those locations? Remember when they bombed trucks full of people evacuating south, as ordered, along designated safe routes? According to my understanding, these are blatant war crimes.
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According to this interview with someone from the Human Rights Watch, it is considered a war crime (if I understand it correctly):
The laws of war require armies to avoid deliberately targeting civilians, and also to avoid attacks that by their nature cannot distinguish between civilians and combatants. In particular, in Gaza, because it’s such a densely populated urban area, when you fire explosive weapons on a massive scale, it’s predictable that civilians will die. It’s predictable that children will die.
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I’d like a single atheist state where Palestine and Israeli have equal rights but religion is strictly outlawed. But I wouldn’t kill people to achieve that, so I think my endgame isn’t gonna happen
But I wouldn’t kill people to achieve that, so I think my endgame isn’t gonna happen
Yes, since both other sides have extremists which aren’t happy with any compromise. On both sides, they are in the government. On both sides, they are willing to kill for it, even seeing it as their religious duty. So if you’re unwilling to kill and prefer another scenario, you will most definitely not get it and maybe get killed in the process. The region might have reached it’s nash equilibrium in constant war.
In your ideal atheist state, what would the punishment be for religion?
fraud charges for anyone claiming it to be non fiction and censorship similar to what porn gets for religious media
Attending a satanic church service maybe
I prefer a 2 state solution, with Jerusalem being moved to the center of the Pacific Ocean.
Hey don’t drop that shit on the Islanders. They are busy dealing with sinking Atolls.
Evacuate it and then dump a bunch of nuclear waste there. That way every visitor can go see God in Jerusalem.
Palestine is a secular state (at least Fatah of the West bank is, remember Hamas is a reaction to Isreal’s oppression). Turns out a theological state is fine if it is the “correct religion”.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
DUBAI/WASHINGTON, Oct 18 (Reuters) - Israel is vowing to wipe out Hamas in a relentless onslaught on the Gaza Strip but has no obvious endgame in sight, with no clear plan for how to govern the ravaged Palestinian enclave even if it triumphs on the battlefield.
Codenamed “Operation Swords of Iron”, the military campaign will be unmatched in its ferocity and unlike anything Israel has carried out in Gaza in the past, according to eight regional and Western officials with knowledge of the conflict who declined to be named due to the sensitivity of the matter.
The immediate Israeli strategy, said three regional officials familiar with discussions between the U.S. and Middle Eastern leaders, is to destroy Gaza’s infrastructure, even at the cost of high civilian casualties, push the enclave’s people towards the Egyptian border and go after Hamas by blowing up the labyrinth of underground tunnels the group has built to conduct its operations.
Aaron David Miller, a Middle East expert at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, said Biden’s visit would have given him a chance to press Israeli leader Benjamin Netanyahu to think through issues such as the proportional use of force and the longer-term plans for Gaza before any invasion.
Two regional military experts told Reuters that Hamas’ armed wing, the Ezzedine al-Qassam Brigades, has mobilised for an invasion, setting up anti-tank mines and booby-trapped explosive devices to ambush troops.
Hundreds of Palestinians have died in the West Bank since the start of the year in repeated clashes with Israeli soldiers and settlers, and there is widespread concern that the violence might engulf the territory as nearby Gaza burns.
The original article contains 1,314 words, the summary contains 273 words. Saved 79%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
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Still searching their own final solution
