I believe them as far as I can throw them tbh. These guys also bought Last Epoch so they better watch themselves before they get a 2nd game’s community mad at them.
I’ll wait and see.
It’s quite weird , any top game today gets close to 100 copy’s within a few months of a hit yet subnautica wasn’t copied even 1 time not even shoddy.
It’s weird I just want more subnautica like games. Under sea crafting survival with some mystery.
I have to imagine that Subnautica is a difficult act to follow because underwater assets are weird. There’s a lot of models and AI for first person shooters, but first person swimmers?
Modded minecraft the Ocean Blocks 2 pack is a lot of fun.
So do they not actually know what happened with KSP2? Because this isn’t going to avoid it. It’s basicslly the same exact mistake.
…what did happy to ksp2? I remember ms acquired them then… ?
Squad selling out to fucking TakeTwo was a blatant stab in the back to the early supporters. The problems start there IMO.
Ksp2 was far worse.
- The KSP2 dev team was entirely new.
- They weren’t allowed to let the KSP1 team even know they were developing.
- They were given no useful information on the codebase they were required to build on.
- They had completely unrealistic goals, given the limitations.
- When the early access released, it was a car crash. Rather than trying to fix things, they fired the dev team, but still insisted it was still being developed.
The original KSP devs are working on a new game right?
I know kitten space agency is being developed. I’m not sure how much of the original KSP team is involved with it. I suspect they are carefully skirting copyright laws on that front.
KSA is dead in the water, though.
Blowing up Jeb is fun for the whole family, including Jeb.
Blowing up kittens is not fun, in any way, shape, or form, unless you’re a deranged psychopath.
No one will play such a game.
People hate MMOs because the first missions are killing pigs.
But cats have nine lives tho!
That’d be a funny mechanic for forgiving mistakes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvL7GlSi_jY&ab_channel=SpunieBard
that looks fantastic
appreciate the details!
“We wanted a fresh new debacle instead!”
Edit:
"As Unknown Worlds’ sole stockholder, Krafton had invested $500 million in the success of not only Subnautica 2, but also Subnautica 3, Subnautica 4, and any other future Subnautica franchise product.”
Ew. Survival games benefit more than most genres from iteration, but that’s better done as updates and expansions unless they make a truly qualitative leap, which I doubt will happen under their leadership. This reeks of them wanting to pump out as many full-priced titles as possible, probably with an ever-higher price tag as Subnautica becomes an established IP.
I agree, but Subnautica was more about exploration than just survival. Sure, you could keep expanding the world to add new environments, but eventually that gets out of hand. For a Subnautica type game, making new ones makes sense, especially to address tech debt as well and start fresh.
“We wanted a fresh new debacle instead!”
“Whenever I have a problem I throw a molatov cocktail and it and bam! Different problem.”
- Jason Mendoza
Subnautica isn’t just a survival game, but a story driven game as well, and given how janky their engine was, it’s not a surprise that they’d want to overhaul it from the ground up.
Their engine? It was built on Unity.
i think the comment was more on how they started designing the game with terraformning as a central conceit and a randomly-generated voxel world, then scrapped all that when it was too late to pull it out of the game. so the world is still procedural and fully destructible, but the random seed is static and there is nothing left in the game that damages terrain.
I mean their codebase more generally.
Factorio did it right, IMO. V2.0 as a free update to the base game, launch a paid expansion at the same time.
Wube is pretty much the only developer I have faith in to consistently do things right.
Rimworld keeps me buying every couple years with absolutely killer DLC that enhances the game just right. And yeah you can get most of those features for free with mods, but first party support is always welcome.
RimWorld also releases a huge list of polish and quality of life changes for free with each expansion. The latest patch that released alongside the Odyssey expansion obviated the need for about half of the QoL mods I considered mandatory before then.
And let’s not exclude the MASSIVE performance boost in the latest update. They’re doing great over there.
The patch was worth it for the load time reduction alone.
i should buy that game
A lot of indie devs are good about that. Squad, KSP’s original devs, even mandated to their buyer that all DLCs existing and future had to be free for backers since they’d listed that as a promise on their original Kickstarter.
Survival games benefit more than most genres from iteration
Subnautica is as much of a survival game as Minecraft is. The only ‘survival’ happens in the first 5-10 minutes of the game and never again.
It’s not a survival game unless you get mauled by wolves in the first 10 minutes.
VS players represent.
Vintage Story player?
Is it really that obvious? 😅
Shit, I’ll take sequels over as-a-service any day. Let continuing revenue be the result of making new things and games being good.
In a lawsuit filed last month, the cofounders claimed Krafton tried to sabotage Subnautica 2‘s planned Early Access launch this year to avoid paying a $250 million bonus it had agreed to at the time Unknown Worlds was sold if the studio hit certain revenue targets in 2025 and early 2026. The legal complaint alleged that Krafton violated the terms of the deal by overriding the studio’s independence and firing the cofounders without cause.
In its response filed on August 12, Krafton denies most of the allegations in the original complaint and argues that it was the cofounders who were trying to rush Subnautica 2 out into the wild despite being behind on its expected content scope. When the company tried to enlist the cofounders, who were not directly involved in the game’s development, to get it back on track, it says it was rebuffed. Krafton claims it had no choice but to remove them from the studio in order to protect Subnautica 2 and prevent a disastrous launch.
“We made a deal in which they had to successfully launch the game and get a big payment when they hit certain revenue targets, but we had to fire them because they only wanted the money for which they had to make a good game, they didn’t wanted to make a good game, they were in only for the money, for which - again - they had to make a good game, they were clearly sabotaging the game!”
They are so full of shite. Corporate BS 101.
I genuinely don’t know what about your comment is supposed to be mocking.
You’re just describing the situation presented in purposefully more confusing language than the article.
They rephrased Krafton’s BS corporate speech into the plain English meaning. It’s only confusing because what Krafton is claiming is asinine.
No, Krafton’s explanation was clearer and plainer spoken.
Krafton may be lying or misrepresenting the situation, but their explanation is both simple and believable, if not necessarily the truth.
Krafton, past named Bluehole Studio, has a terrible track record from the start, stealing Lineage’s source code to make Tera Online.
They’ve also bought up a ton of quality studios. I’m half expecting Krafton to go bankrupt due to incompetence and end up pulling an Embracer and take everyone else down with them.
If they end up torpedoing Hi-Fi Rush 2, I may start a riot.
So from what I understand. That 250$ million bonus to “employees” was almost all going to like 3 people. The smaller bonus that was going to actual employees, they said they would honor it anyways.
I’m happy those three founders gave us the first subnautica, but I’d rather a better game on release then something rushed so they get a payday (they also already got paid when they sold their company in any case).
Really hard to say who is in the right without having gameplay footage or real details, but it wouldn’t surprise me if it does need more time and it was going to come out as a mess.
Well first, this deal was part of that sale. That’d be like someone’s boss pocketing a tip and telling the waitress “you don’t deserve this tip you already got paid” or a salesman “you get something hourly, why would you need this commission?”
They worked for it, after the sale, because it was in their contract.
That said, the company didn’t even say it was a mess. They said that they needed something like, one more biome, one more leviathan, a few bits and bobs like that. Requirements that they added on later in development, that those three guys say aren’t needed.
I really wanna hear from the other devs, the ones under the 3. Theirs is the opinion I’d trust in this mess. But I’m leaning towards corporate fuckery, personally.
Krafton has claimed they asked for 30% more content for the early access version, which isn’t that minimal.
Depends how much content there was.
10 hours? 100 hours? Adding 3 isn’t much, adding 30 is quite a lot.
If they really were rushing then maybe there wasn’t that much content already and asking 30% wasn’t to unrealistic.
It’s a lot of money. There are huge incentives on both sides to do the wrong thing (either delay a finished game or push out something half baked).
That being said, the current course of action, regardless of justification, is actually going to get us a better game in the end. So there is a sunny side to it for the consumer, which is kind of really rare when you think about it.
I would also love to hear from other workers.
That being said, the current course of action, regardless of justification, is actually going to get us a better game in the end.
Eh, I’m not sure about that. Sure, a more complete initial launch (probably still early access), but will 1.0 be better, or after that? Part of what made previous games good was getting user feedback early in early access. Sure, they played less complete versions, but it allowed them to direct where the game was heading sooner.
Also, how much does this hurt morale of the team? Are they still going to care about the project as much with their owners fucking around with the project? If they don’t care as much, the final product is almost certainly worse.
They are still releasing it in early access it seems, they are just delaying it.
The team is still getting paid their bonus, and they have more time to implement more things before the early access release from what I understand.
I kind of prefer my games delayed. Maybe its ready to leave now and the delay is a big scam but all im seeing is less pressure on the team making it and more content. For the rest, they can figure it out in court.
Yeah, that’s what I said.
I assume the planned release date for 1.0 is staying the same though. This doesn’t buy them any more time. It only delays the time where they’d get feedback from the community. You can always wait for early access to be over if you want. This is all that was delayed, not 1.0.
What about this clusterfuck gives you the impression that this will improve the game beyond where it’s already at?
The fact that it’s getting delayed to add content?
if I was told my bonus isn’t coming I would immediately start slacking
That’s the thing tho, they said they would honor the bonus for every employee except those three. Granted the three were getting the lionshare of the bonus, almost all of it, so the publisher is still saving money but they aren’t screwing over the actual people making the game in regards to this.
We get a delayed release with more content which is usually a good thing imo. Worse case scenario is three dudes getting screwed out of half of their 500$ million paycheck. Just pointing out that it isn’t a bad situation per say for consumers. If the game was lacking, we are being done a favor.
You really need to start paying attention. The founders were already going to split the money between the entire crew, this isn’t about quality control, and EA isn’t supposed to be a major polished release.
Early Access is being delayed. They were releasing early access to let users give feedback. Now that feedback will be delayed, which allows them to make mistakes that may have been avoidable if they heard from players sooner.
When two parties sign a contract then they have to act in good faith. Preventing the other party from fulfilling their obligations to avoid a payout or invoke a penalty is not good faith. And that’s why the sea witch Ursula’s contract with the mermaid Ariel would not have held up in court.
Maybe the game would make more money during it’s life span if released later but that’s irrelevant when there’s a contract about how much money the game should make before a certain cut off date.
We currently don’t know which party is acting in bad faith. The publishers could be delaying to avoid the payout or the 3 founders could be rushing to get the payout. It’s true that a shit half baked game would ruin the series and cause damages, if there is an actual lack of content, there is justification in delaying it.
I guess we will get a clearer picture as the lawsuits draw to a close and the game is released.
Rushing to get the payout is not bad faith. That’s the terms of the contract.
I’m certain there are clauses that demand a certain level of content and quality.
No, that’s what the income requirement is for. Are you telling me you would buy it even if they shipped a half-baked piece of shit product and all the reviewers told you so?
Edit: I think you are confusing your desire for a good game with the legal dispute
Yeah, the three fired heads owned 90% of the shares, so they got $225M from the initial sale, and were due to get another $225M from the bonuses. That’s why Krafton still paid out $25M in bonuses after the uproar.
500m?! What a buch of fucking assholes and idiots.
Also, what drama?
For those who needed some news catching up also:
https://www.ign.com/articles/take-two-shutters-kerbal-space-program-2-studio-amid-layoffs
The publisher, Take Two, laid off the entire staff of KSP2. This pissed off many fans, who had paid full price for Early Access to an unfinishee game that now didn’t have a Dev team.
https://www.polygon.com/news/475635/private-division-sold/
Then T2 sold off the studio to this other company. And staffing up for Dev work when none if the original creators are around: 1. Sucks and is miserable work and 2. Almost never works out to produce a quality product.
So yeah, instead of that debacle, they opted for the Disco Elysium 2 debacle where the publishers steal the IP from the original creators and then fail to ever deliver anything with it. I love this debacle because you get a shitty publisher with a disappointing game AND embittered developers who will probably leave game making or go on to make less involved projects. It’s great they can both financially ruin an industry with bad practices while also tearing out the soul of the medium.
Don’t care, show me good gameplay and good reviews, then I’ll consider buying it.
Why are games nowadays 99% careful wording, business decisions and clout, and 1% game?
That’s what happens if MBAs run the show.
Because money
