It’s tragically ironic that anarchists are so often scolded by condescending authoritarians for being “infantile,” especially when we consider the historical context: no authoritarian regime has ever fostered the conditions necessary for genuine liberation. Are we really expected to believe that future authoritarian systems, following the same tired script, will succeed when every single one has historically exhibited a pattern of dismal failure and a litany of atrocities? Such a belief seems far more naive than the idealistic principles championed by anarchists.
The centralization of power in a single authority not only undermines individual autonomy but also infantilizes the very individuals it purports to protect. By relegating people to a subordinate status as dependents of the state, these systems strip them of agency and responsibility, suggesting that ordinary workers are incapable of making their own decisions. This dynamic adds another layer of irony to the common critique of anarchism, as it is the authoritarian structures that foster dependency, fear of change, and social and political immaturity. In stark contrast, the anarchist vision promotes a world grounded in self-sufficiency through mutual aid, freedom of association, and voluntary cooperation.
This section is pretty nakedly anti-Marxist, and again, I don’t see why Deng is relevant here when this is against all branches of Marxism.
I don’t see why Deng is relevant here when this is against all branches of Marxism
They’re calling us Dengists because most of us support China (even after Deng’s post-Mao market reforms) as a socialist project, but since modern China is one of the Great Evil Authoritarian states by their reckoning, the term is meant as a pejorative. It’s basically “tankie” but with anti-Chinese characteristics.
I’m sure you’re right, just wanted to tease the fact that they are just being anti-communist in general out. Hiding behind being “anti-Dengist” is a pejorative of convenience for them, but all of their issues apply to Marxism broadly.
Obviously as an anarchist I’m not a Marxist, no anarchists are. Plenty of us opt for anarchy, mutualism, communalism, municipalism, etc. We’re socialists who disagree with Marx’s program. Deng on the other hand is just a run of the mill capitalist making his followers enemies of the working class.
The fact that you’re centering Marxism on c/anarchism is a bad look for this project. Not everything has to revolve around your fave bearded white guy. If we can’t talk about anarchism here without needing to soothe Marxists’ egos (Dengists if we’re being honest), why maintain an anarchist forum?
I didn’t say Marxists were anarchists or anarchists were Marxists. I stated that your issues with “Dengists” are just issues you have with Marxists coated in a less left-punchy way. Deng himself was a Marxist-Leninist working with the struggles brought about from the Gang of Four and the Cultural Revolution, socialism is still the mode of production in the PRC.
As for “centering Marxism,” I was addressing your complaints of being dogpiled on by Marxists on an instance dominated by Marxists. There are many anarchist users on Lemmy.ml, and they share their views as well without resorting to thinly-veiled attacks on Marxists.
Apparently these anarchists are in hiding because all I see is Dengists in every direction.
If there are really anarchists reading this, perhaps scared to speak up because you don’t want to cross the Dengists who clearly control the discourse here:
I didn’t write this essay for spiteful Marxists; rather, it’s a heartfelt tribute to young anarchists, urging you to persist in your pursuit of anarchy and resist the pressure from these patronising bores to conform to their conservative values. I see so many of you expressing frustration over Marxists mocking your positions. This essay serves as a form of prefiguration, encouraging newer anarchists to envision a more creative and liberating path than the all-too-common ancom to authcom pipeline.
We all need to stop centering the egos of Marxists in everything we do.
You’ve been attacking “Dengists” for standard Marxist positions. Further, again, nothing here is about “centering egos,” I’m explaining why your thinly-veiled hit piece on Marxists is getting a response from Marxists you’ve attacked.
Maybe you should lay out a 5 year plan for sockpuppet production and distribution across the anarchist comms on lemmy, get input on it from 4 other alts, then run a great purge where you ban 2 of them.
Again, you’re projecting. That you see the word “authoritarian regime” and immediately feel victimized says a lot more about you than me. It’s talking about all authoritarian regimes from Nazi Germany to Fascist USA to Terf Island and beyond. Anarchists saying authoritarian states haven’t liberated people historically is not a personal attack on you.
It’s pretty clearly hinting at those who would use the state to uplift the working class, making way for the gradual withering of the state alongside class, ie Marxists. It also directly talks about centralization, ie collectivizing production in the hands of all of society, a distinctly Marxist viewpoint.
The bit about centralizing all power in a single authority is pretty much the standard punch against Marxists. Having a central government is different from centralizing all of production. Secondly, there’s this part:
The centralization of power in a single authority not only undermines individual autonomy but also infantilizes the very individuals it purports to protect. By relegating people to a subordinate status as dependents of the state, these systems strip them of agency and responsibility, suggesting that ordinary workers are incapable of making their own decisions
What is this supposed to be attacking other than the notion that a proletarian state can be used to uplift the proletariat?
i’m telling you exactly what you want to hear to end this tedious exchange. too bad the mod decided me talking about the unappealing flavor of boots is somehow ‘bigotry’. this place is worse than reddit.
This section is pretty nakedly anti-Marxist, and again, I don’t see why Deng is relevant here when this is against all branches of Marxism.
They’re calling us Dengists because most of us support China (even after Deng’s post-Mao market reforms) as a socialist project, but since modern China is one of the Great Evil Authoritarian states by their reckoning, the term is meant as a pejorative. It’s basically “tankie” but with anti-Chinese characteristics.
I’m sure you’re right, just wanted to tease the fact that they are just being anti-communist in general out. Hiding behind being “anti-Dengist” is a pejorative of convenience for them, but all of their issues apply to Marxism broadly.
Obviously as an anarchist I’m not a Marxist, no anarchists are. Plenty of us opt for anarchy, mutualism, communalism, municipalism, etc. We’re socialists who disagree with Marx’s program. Deng on the other hand is just a run of the mill capitalist making his followers enemies of the working class.
The fact that you’re centering Marxism on c/anarchism is a bad look for this project. Not everything has to revolve around your fave bearded white guy. If we can’t talk about anarchism here without needing to soothe Marxists’ egos (Dengists if we’re being honest), why maintain an anarchist forum?
I didn’t say Marxists were anarchists or anarchists were Marxists. I stated that your issues with “Dengists” are just issues you have with Marxists coated in a less left-punchy way. Deng himself was a Marxist-Leninist working with the struggles brought about from the Gang of Four and the Cultural Revolution, socialism is still the mode of production in the PRC.
As for “centering Marxism,” I was addressing your complaints of being dogpiled on by Marxists on an instance dominated by Marxists. There are many anarchist users on Lemmy.ml, and they share their views as well without resorting to thinly-veiled attacks on Marxists.
Apparently these anarchists are in hiding because all I see is Dengists in every direction.
If there are really anarchists reading this, perhaps scared to speak up because you don’t want to cross the Dengists who clearly control the discourse here:
I didn’t write this essay for spiteful Marxists; rather, it’s a heartfelt tribute to young anarchists, urging you to persist in your pursuit of anarchy and resist the pressure from these patronising bores to conform to their conservative values. I see so many of you expressing frustration over Marxists mocking your positions. This essay serves as a form of prefiguration, encouraging newer anarchists to envision a more creative and liberating path than the all-too-common ancom to authcom pipeline.
We all need to stop centering the egos of Marxists in everything we do.
You’ve been attacking “Dengists” for standard Marxist positions. Further, again, nothing here is about “centering egos,” I’m explaining why your thinly-veiled hit piece on Marxists is getting a response from Marxists you’ve attacked.
We all need to stop centering the egos of Marxists in everything we do.
Let us pathetic illiterate anarkiddies get on with doing cool shit now, k?
Who is centering the egos of Marxists?
buddy you have a triple digit number of sockpuppet accounts, I think the gravitational pull of that ego is clearly much more relevant
if i were using multiple accounts the discourse in this place wouldn’t be so fucking insipid.
Maybe you should lay out a 5 year plan for sockpuppet production and distribution across the anarchist comms on lemmy, get input on it from 4 other alts, then run a great purge where you ban 2 of them.
Again, you’re projecting. That you see the word “authoritarian regime” and immediately feel victimized says a lot more about you than me. It’s talking about all authoritarian regimes from Nazi Germany to Fascist USA to Terf Island and beyond. Anarchists saying authoritarian states haven’t liberated people historically is not a personal attack on you.
It’s pretty clearly hinting at those who would use the state to uplift the working class, making way for the gradual withering of the state alongside class, ie Marxists. It also directly talks about centralization, ie collectivizing production in the hands of all of society, a distinctly Marxist viewpoint.
Central governments aren’t the exclusive domain of Marxists. There’s zero mention of using the state to uplift anyone. Holy moley the projection.
The bit about centralizing all power in a single authority is pretty much the standard punch against Marxists. Having a central government is different from centralizing all of production. Secondly, there’s this part:
What is this supposed to be attacking other than the notion that a proletarian state can be used to uplift the proletariat?
Removed by mod
Why are you trying to dance around?
i’m telling you exactly what you want to hear to end this tedious exchange. too bad the mod decided me talking about the unappealing flavor of boots is somehow ‘bigotry’. this place is worse than reddit.
You were free to stop responding whenever you felt like.