Blame tablet culture. Everything is now optimally desgined for user friendliness. Kids can just download an app from the appstore and point at what they want it to do. People don’t even know anymore how the filesystem on their computer works. If the dow load pup-up in chrome disappears, they think the download has dissapeared and they need to download it again.
Yeah maybe, but try popping out of an app for five seconds to copy something and then come back to paste it, and tell me how user friendly and optimised that is.
TBF, Android and iOS do not make it clear where files are going when you save them like desktop OSes do. It’s almost as if they are intentionally trying to hide their file structure, especially Apple, which is beyond frustrating.
The default file browsers don’t access the entire file structure, what exists and what you can see and edit, without root.
You can, or at least could, sideload a FOSS filebrowser, much more straightforward UI, doesnt shit itself if you arent logged into it.
What they instead do is make it really, really easy to upload all your personal files to their cloud, which is either going to cost you time, money, or your privacy.
Its why Microsoft genuinely doesnt understand why everyone hates OneDrive, why they genuinely don’t see a problem with Windows becoming an AI prompt/API with ads.
Because its basically the same as the mobile UI paradigm.
I mean, I feel you, but I also used to work for Microsoft.
Their management is largely literally delusional.
The groupthink / corpo culture is so strong that its basically like talking to an ET alien, on many topics.
So yes, clearly they do not care, but also, they’re very much deluded into thinking that everything they do is just obviously the way you would do something.
Its very culty, to be frank, its one part of why I don’t work there any more, the other main one being their blatent reproduction of India’s caste system within MSFT itself.
Multiple times I saw H1B visa junior employees getting viciously verbally absued by more senior employees from India, from a higher caste or social status, shit that I would have gotten instantly fired if I did.
I went to HR and they told me that actually I was being culturally insensitive because that’s just normal in their culture.
Absolute fucking horseshit.
And this was all a decade-ish ago. I am certain it is much worse now, just look at everyone who got fired for objecting to Microsoft aiding and abetting and facilitating Israel’s genocide.
It’s been known since probably the seventies that normies have trouble with hierarchical file systems. UI researchers kept testing the assumptions about file systems, and the results in the majority of populace have always been abysmal. Which is why people have the desktop piled with every file they ever created or downloaded, and why UI designers are trying to move away from shoving file systems into users’ faces.
I know where mine usually go, but sometimes they go somewhere else. Why did it do that? Where did it go? Sometimes I run a search and still can’t find it. Wtf? So, I have re-downloaded when I was in a pinch.
Everything is now optimally desgined for user friendliness.
Feels like the opposite to me. Modern mobile style interfaces feel extremely hostile, designed to minimise the amount of information the user can extract from the application (and maximise the amount that can be extracted from the user and sold to the highest bidder) and our control over it.
Classic desktop interfaces (and no, the stupid office ribbons are not included in that), even when poorly designed, are many orders of magnitude easier to use and navigate, and provide a lot more tools and information.
People never knew how filesystems work. It’s been tested time and again, people aside from nerds have trouble with hierarchical filesystems. They had trouble in the eighties, they had trouble in the nineties, had trouble in the two-thousandths and obviously still have trouble today. Saving every single file on the desktop didn’t start with tablets.
Nerds just have no idea how the majority of the population fare with computers, and don’t know that UI designers in fact test their UIs and continually check their assumptions. But nerds are cocksure in blaming UI designers and ‘tablet culture’, which culture made computing accessible to everyone from toddlers to decrepit geriatrics.
I thought the younger folk would be faster on computers than me but I had to show a junior new hire IT tech what a zip file was and how to open it. Something that I assumed would be second nature to them, they hadn’t seen. Growing up with analog and moving to digital as society progressed, I assumed the next generation would smoke me in tech but it’s been surprising that because tech has
“Just worked” for many of them they haven’t had to learn how it works. A blessing and a curse I suppose.
Honestly sometimes having learned the analog counterpart is really useful. It’s a different field but the first time I mixed live audio was on an old analog mixer. It wasn’t really all that difficult to use once explained. Shortly after we replaced it with a digital mixer (behringer x32), and I’m so glad that I had the opportunity to use the old analog one because so many concepts would appear, at least to me, difficult to grasp if you’re starting out on the digital one.
And a lot of Lemmy could be accused of having the same attitude towards sports, fashion or pop culture. People aren’t obligated to be interested in tech, for most people it’s a tool, not a hobby.
Honestly I don’t blame them, I fall into the not giving a shit about sports or fashion camp too. My inner boomer comes out when I’m forced to use microsoft products so I’m definitely a hypocrite but at least I’ll put a little effort into trying to get a surface level of understanding.
Literacy and numeracy scores in the US in general peaked in 2012.
If you graduated high school / college around then, statistically, everyone +/-5 of greater your age is generally less literate, less mathematically literate, less knowledgeable than you, ceteris paribus.
Blame tablet culture. Everything is now optimally desgined for user friendliness. Kids can just download an app from the appstore and point at what they want it to do. People don’t even know anymore how the filesystem on their computer works. If the dow load pup-up in chrome disappears, they think the download has dissapeared and they need to download it again.
Yeah maybe, but try popping out of an app for five seconds to copy something and then come back to paste it, and tell me how user friendly and optimised that is.
TBF, Android and iOS do not make it clear where files are going when you save them like desktop OSes do. It’s almost as if they are intentionally trying to hide their file structure, especially Apple, which is beyond frustrating.
They are intentionally trying to hide it.
The default file browsers don’t access the entire file structure, what exists and what you can see and edit, without root.
You can, or at least could, sideload a FOSS filebrowser, much more straightforward UI, doesnt shit itself if you arent logged into it.
What they instead do is make it really, really easy to upload all your personal files to their cloud, which is either going to cost you time, money, or your privacy.
Its why Microsoft genuinely doesnt understand why everyone hates OneDrive, why they genuinely don’t see a problem with Windows becoming an AI prompt/API with ads.
Because its basically the same as the mobile UI paradigm.
FTFY. Microsoft doesn’t deserve the Hanlon’s Razor benefit of doubt.
I mean, I feel you, but I also used to work for Microsoft.
Their management is largely literally delusional.
The groupthink / corpo culture is so strong that its basically like talking to an ET alien, on many topics.
So yes, clearly they do not care, but also, they’re very much deluded into thinking that everything they do is just obviously the way you would do something.
Its very culty, to be frank, its one part of why I don’t work there any more, the other main one being their blatent reproduction of India’s caste system within MSFT itself.
Multiple times I saw H1B visa junior employees getting viciously verbally absued by more senior employees from India, from a higher caste or social status, shit that I would have gotten instantly fired if I did.
I went to HR and they told me that actually I was being culturally insensitive because that’s just normal in their culture.
Absolute fucking horseshit.
And this was all a decade-ish ago. I am certain it is much worse now, just look at everyone who got fired for objecting to Microsoft aiding and abetting and facilitating Israel’s genocide.
… I’m gonna need a fucking cigarette, god damnit.
It’s been known since probably the seventies that normies have trouble with hierarchical file systems. UI researchers kept testing the assumptions about file systems, and the results in the majority of populace have always been abysmal. Which is why people have the desktop piled with every file they ever created or downloaded, and why UI designers are trying to move away from shoving file systems into users’ faces.
I know where mine usually go, but sometimes they go somewhere else. Why did it do that? Where did it go? Sometimes I run a search and still can’t find it. Wtf? So, I have re-downloaded when I was in a pinch.
Feels like the opposite to me. Modern mobile style interfaces feel extremely hostile, designed to minimise the amount of information the user can extract from the application (and maximise the amount that can be extracted from the user and sold to the highest bidder) and our control over it.
Classic desktop interfaces (and no, the stupid office ribbons are not included in that), even when poorly designed, are many orders of magnitude easier to use and navigate, and provide a lot more tools and information.
I agree, but we have two have different meanings of user friendly here.
You: The thing makes it easy to do what I want, to understand what it can do.
Them: The thing makes it easy to do what the designer wants, makes it easy to understand what the designer wants me to do with it.
People never knew how filesystems work. It’s been tested time and again, people aside from nerds have trouble with hierarchical filesystems. They had trouble in the eighties, they had trouble in the nineties, had trouble in the two-thousandths and obviously still have trouble today. Saving every single file on the desktop didn’t start with tablets.
Nerds just have no idea how the majority of the population fare with computers, and don’t know that UI designers in fact test their UIs and continually check their assumptions. But nerds are cocksure in blaming UI designers and ‘tablet culture’, which culture made computing accessible to everyone from toddlers to decrepit geriatrics.
I thought the younger folk would be faster on computers than me but I had to show a junior new hire IT tech what a zip file was and how to open it. Something that I assumed would be second nature to them, they hadn’t seen. Growing up with analog and moving to digital as society progressed, I assumed the next generation would smoke me in tech but it’s been surprising that because tech has “Just worked” for many of them they haven’t had to learn how it works. A blessing and a curse I suppose.
The next gen grew up on tablets and iphones and walled gardens that make everything a mystery to them. Corporate infantilisation
Honestly sometimes having learned the analog counterpart is really useful. It’s a different field but the first time I mixed live audio was on an old analog mixer. It wasn’t really all that difficult to use once explained. Shortly after we replaced it with a digital mixer (behringer x32), and I’m so glad that I had the opportunity to use the old analog one because so many concepts would appear, at least to me, difficult to grasp if you’re starting out on the digital one.
File compression is for poor people.
Also I’ve noticed a total lack of curiosity or willingness to learn how to use these products. It takes a little brain power sometimes.
And a lot of Lemmy could be accused of having the same attitude towards sports, fashion or pop culture. People aren’t obligated to be interested in tech, for most people it’s a tool, not a hobby.
The things you’ve mentioned are hobbies, not tools you need to use
Honestly I don’t blame them, I fall into the not giving a shit about sports or fashion camp too. My inner boomer comes out when I’m forced to use microsoft products so I’m definitely a hypocrite but at least I’ll put a little effort into trying to get a surface level of understanding.
Literacy and numeracy scores in the US in general peaked in 2012.
If you graduated high school / college around then, statistically, everyone +/-5 of greater your age is generally less literate, less mathematically literate, less knowledgeable than you, ceteris paribus.
Back in my day we had to walk up hill both ways.