I searched this, but got back a lot of AI slop, so like to hear what people’s experience is.
I was considering upgrading to reduce the morning noise for the household, and learned that big burrs are faster and can be quieter. Maybe that’s true?
Going down the rabbit hole, it seems like the burrs can also affect the taste (clarity, body, etc.) in wildly different directions, not necessarily one size fits all.
Is there anyone with more than one grinder over time that has noticed one way or the other? I use a Niche now, and had a Commandante 40. I just drink espresso, but what do I know? In this case, nothing!
At home I currently used a DF83 with the SSP HU Burrs for espresso, a Timemore 78 for pour over. For travel I have a 1Zpresso J-Ultra for espresso and a ZP6 for pour over. In the past I have owned a Niche Zero, Eureka Mignon Brew Pro, Quamar M80 E.
Burr size ignoring the changes it makes to burr geometry has little baring on what you get out of the cup, espresso or pour over. The burrs themselves? Potentially massive differences, but their are caveats.
Water, then beans are the two most important ingredients to your coffee. Sure, a great grinder will get more out of bad beans than a bad grinder, but it cannot cover up that they were bad beans to begin with, they cant invent flavor for you, only reveal it. And no amount of great beans and grinder will fix nasty tasting water.
Also if you only really drink dark roast and not medium to light roast, coupled with a preference for an espresso with a ton of body, then ultra low fine production grinder/burr sets aren’t going to be giving you what you want and will make your espresso feel too much like thin tea.
Having said all that, the particle distribution of a grinders output is something thats been measured many times. Its quantifiable that a better quality grinder, something with a proper pre breaker like a Zernos auger, and just all round high quality will produce a lower distribution of grind sizes. It is going to provide a more consistent cup of espresso than my DF83, but then its £2.5k for the same setup, when I swapped my Niche for the DF83 and the DF83 was light years better than the Niche for clarity.
The only significant difference flavor-wise I’m aware of from burr size is that a larger burr has more mass, and is more resistant to heating up from friction during use, with that accompanying expansion changing the grind characteristics. Tbh though, I think you need to be going either high volume at a commercial scale, or be trying to perfectly nail some ultra-precise extraction recipe for an award-winning cup of coffee for the thermal expansion to become relevant.
I have a df64 and a 1zpresso J Max, which IIRC is 48mm conical. The product tastes pretty similar in an aeropress, although I would say df64 is slightly better (could be due to many things, like conical v.s. flat, geometry etc.), but not $200 better.
The speed difference, even considering hand grinding is negligible unless you are making coffee for more than 4 people.
In general I find the diminishing return might hit you real hard if you decide to upgrade; but it is a hobby anyway: if it makes you happy then it makes you happy; who am I to judge :)
I have the exact same grinders and use them exclusively for espresso. I would say that the DF64 produces brighter flavors and the J-Max a thicker body. But, as I use the J-Max as part of my travel kit with a Flair Pro 2, the difference might also be attributed to the narrower and deeper puck of the Flair compared to a traditional 58mm basket. I’d also tend to attribute the differences to blade geometry rather than size.
I’ve heard that larger burrs produce less heat and help retain more flavors. I don’t know it there is a serious scientific study confirming it.
That sort of what I was thinking, the different grinders actually produce different flavour, profiles, rather than better or worse. That’s a good point about the shape, I’m almost tempted to do it to try different burrs on the same coffee. My palate is shite, but the one of my son-in-law’s is pretty good, so maybe more of a fun thing than a practical thing.
Thanks for that. Definitely agree with the diminishing returns aspect. I have an okay palate, and I also drink about half milk, so not much more to be gained.
I looked at the DF64 because it’s definitely a good deal compared to what’s out there (Weber [Yow! re: price]/Lagom/Bookoo/Zerno [also Yow]). I’m guessing the DF64 isn’t famously quiet though. Have you ever tried different burrs for different flavours?
Maybe not burr size exactly but I’ve had an experience with grind size on my fellow ode being the difference between extremely bitter almost burnt taste and good taste on the same beans for pour over.
comparisons between burr sizes will mostly be a bit apples to oranges, since you dont have same design same manufacturer same burr tooth geometry with the only difference being burr size. but yeah, seems to me bigger burrs all else held equal should grind faster and quieter. the levercraft ultra grinder with its ~100mm burrs is the quietest grinder ive encountered
