Well, you can quickly search up some information. I don’t remember what it was, but I remember that once in middle school teacher said something I wasn’t quite sure about, but also I wouldn’t ask if I wasn’t more sure. So I looked it up, seeing that I was right, I asked if it rather wasn’t meant to be that other thing, he checked too and indeed he was wrong.
Also, my mind often wanders off. And it may happen that I suddenly can’t remember something. Could just be some word I could look up on my phone in less than a minute. Option B: Keep thinking about it till the rest of the class. I can’t stop thinking about that until I either remember or find it.
Next, spine. I am currently in high school. Phones are allowed here. Any time. So, I utilized my scanner and digitized one 500 or so page book I couldn’t find on the internet, and then used it as PDF instead of a physical book. It is less likely that I would forget my phone. I wish schools would have options for e-ink tablets instead of having to carry many heavy physical books. That used to be problem mostly in elementary school and middle school. Same goes for note taking.
Obviously, the last example can be easily solved by modernization.
Fast talking teachers. I can’t write that fast. I mean, I can, but then I can’t decipher my handwriting, which is already hard anyway. Voice recorder is a quick solution. Obviously, it is easier to look through notes than audio, but IT IS NOT MEANT TO BE A REPLACEMENT FOR NOTES, just a help.
But do take that with a pinch of salt. Especially in elementary school, I used to be one of those weird kids who greatly preferred being liked by the teacher over having friends. So even though I had a phone at the time, I never used it during classes because teachers disliked it.
But at least during breaks it should be allowed. Otherwise kids will find much more dangerous ways to entertain themselves.
I mean, comparing class with active kids throwing stuff around and ones just sitting and playing on their phones, I’d take the second. Cyber bullying may be hard to detect though, but it’s not like schools care either way.
If you want to teach kids how to look up information, you can create spaces for that. They don’t need unrestricted access to their smart phones to accomplish that throughout the day. Hell you can relax your policies as they grow up and show the maturity to handle having a smart phone in the classroom. If schools want to do that, I am all in favor of it. But they would have to start early and build a system, which is a lot to ask of already overworked educators.
I am not talking about unrestricted access either. It depends on age, but they could always just ask the teacher if they’re allowed to look up something. And also I don’t see how disallowing phones during breaks helps education. It’s meant to be a break.
Bugging you until you remember? You write it so that you can’t forget and so it stops bugging you.
Bugging you because you need that info itch scratched right now? Aka instant gratification. Then you have to learn to not need instant gratification. Seriously, it’s another skill.
Another skill is not caring if someone has a solution other than yours. It’d take half the time to write it down as it would just to look up the answer.
All this is spoken like an entitled bratty immature kid. (No offense, it’s just your age and you’ll grow out of it)
There’s a reason why you can get a ticket or be charged with distracted driving while you’re on your phone and behind the wheel of a car. IT IS A DISTRACTION. FULL STOP.
This phone issue has never affected me personally. I am defending OP and others.
I am not talking about using the phone all the time for some stupid thing. It gives you access to a lot of information when needed.
Also if you trust kids with making life changing decisions, this is unfair.
Also sorry if I sounded as you described. I only started carrying the phone with me since I was 15. I was too worried about breaking it (it’s not cheap thing). That makes finding positive points (that would apply to younger kids) a bit harder.
Edit: Also, don’t be worried, I would almost never voice my opinions in real life.
Spoken like an introverted someone who HAS ALREADY been affected socially in a negative way by their cell phone use.
The entitled and bratty part of your comments = when people tell me not to use my phone I simply DONT use it or bring it. What’s the problem exactly? You want access to an encyclopedic knowledge in class? You don’t have a laptop or computer in the room you can use ?
Maybe you use your phone only for the most strictly academic things, but most people don’t.
Finally, I don’t trust kids to make life changing decisions. See all the high schoolers who got suckered into a worthless degree from the University of Phoenix. It’s very fair to take the reigns from people who can’t control themselves and their impulses.
Spoken like an introverted someone who HAS ALREADY been affected socially in a negative way by their cell phone use.
Can’t disagree with this. I got a tablet when I was 8. With unrestricted access. On the positive note, it did help me learn quite a lot of stuff. Like English.
The entitled and bratty part of your comments = when people tell me not to use my phone I simply DONT use it or bring it. What’s the problem exactly? You want access to an encyclopedic knowledge in class? You don’t have a laptop or computer in the room you can use ?
No problem, really. If someone wanted to search up something during class, teachers could just allow it, and generally they did. Except when I was in grade 9 and the school decided to prohibit even just having them at school, as if it were grenades. Some teacher would always just collect all into a bucket and return at the end of the day.
When we had free substituted classes, sometimes they would tell us something like “Sorry, I’d allow you phones now, but if I did I could have problems from it.” So clearly they would punish teachers for that. That’s just crazy.
And computers aren’t in every class. Even if they are, they might not always work. Now we use our phones even to do exams sometimes. But, yeah, school isn’t even mandatory for me anymore, so it’s already different.
Finally, I don’t trust kids to make life changing decisions. See all the high schoolers who got suckered into a worthless degree from the University of Phoenix. It’s very fair to take the reigns from people who can’t control themselves and their impulses.
I wasn’t even talking about such late decisions. For example, when I was 10 I was given the decision between going into class A or class B since I had good enough results for A. A was class for a little more talented kids. They even had some additional subjects. Well, my dad discouraged me from going to class A. He told me “There won’t be any normal kids. I’d choose B if I were you.” So I did. I regret. I could have gotten to a better school later on.
Some explanation of those classes:
A - Talented
C and D - sport classes (basketball and hockey respectively)
B - everything else
Next, when I was 14, I told my psychologist about my living conditions. Including photos of how our home looks like. She told me that she could call social services. Then asked me if I agreed. I was scared, so I said no. I regret, once again.
And something that’s there always, choosing high school when you’re 15.
I am not sure how it works across different school systems. In Slovakia, they are focused just on 1 particular field of study determining where you’ll be for the rest of your life. 3 year fields are without graduation (e.g.: various mechanics and plumbers). 4 year and 5 year fields are with graduation, meaning you can go to college/university.
I’ve had a few classmates who only chose particular field because their friends were going there too, even though they weren’t interested in it.
Well, by their teenage years, why not all the reasons adults need smartphones fully accessible? Looking up information from authoritative sources? Emergency contact? Coordinating schedules for office hours?
Schools often simultaneously demand more from children than workplaces do adults, and give them less opportunity to excel.
I’m not saying work-inappropriate phone use should be accepted, but taking them away entirely is downright irresponsible. Just like schools who still demand students write on a notebook instead of using a laptop. Raise your hand if you had RSI-related issues for a decade or more after high school? We old people tend to forget how bad school used to be (and can be) for physical and mental health AND for learning.
I mean I’m not that extreme lmao that’s also a safety issue. Kids will be kids, they will not sit quietly all school day and be total lesson sponges lol
How much of a safety issue would it really be? Cell phones didn’t really become a thing for my age range until high school. If there was an emergency, there was a landline in the classrooms.
No kidding. Not to sound like an old fogey but we did really well without them for both “emergencies” and “fact checking”. I can only see them primarily as a distraction.
Yeah, it would suck for the staff, but I don’t think it would be that much more unsafe. I don’t think it’s a good idea, but I don’t think it’s particularly unsafe.
Schools got by fine without the Internet until probably the mid-2000s. They got by fine without computers until probably the 90s. You can make that argument about literally anything in a school right now. We live in a society built around smart phones and tablets. We can’t just pretend we don’t.
I already did unpack it: “Smart phones are a distraction for social media 99% of the time.”
Nor did I say the word “just”. You’re both ignoring what I did say and inserting your own words. They can be distractions with you know social media. But also back in my day they taught us Word, Excel, programming. You had a class with that. You didn’t need it in your pocket 24/7.
I don’t think y’all realize that not a single staff member or administrator or any employee of the school would be able to use a phone either (other than landlines I guess?). Schools aren’t just full of students lol
You mean that thing I specifically mentioned? Yes, I realize that. Would it be inconvenient? Yes, it absolutely would. Would it suck to work in that environment? Again, yes it would. If I’m just thinking about safety, I’m not sure it’s that much more unsafe.
I’m not a boomer. And I’m in no way advocating the use of a Faraday cage. Maybe read what is actually written instead of what you think was written. Hell I work in tech trying to get people up with the times…
It’s incredibly unsafe when you live in a society built around smartphones/tablets for health and safety tools to remove said smartphones.
A faraday cage is a fun thought exercise but wholly impractical. A lot of emergency systems - such as amber alerts - rely on their connectivity. A lot of schools also give out laptops/tablets.
It’s incredibly unsafe when you live in a society built around smartphones/tablets for health and safety tools to remove said smartphones.
But is it? Landlines can make the same emergency calls. A Faraday cage also doesn’t mean you can’t have an internal wifi that reaches outside that the staff can connect to, or even the students can connect through with a proxy controlling their connection.
I agree it’s impractical. But it doesn’t mean laptops and phones suddenly don’t work. They can still work within the cage and you can poke holes through it with a landline and a proxy to control traffic in and out.
Ultimately, it’s definitely not worth the engineering and the effort. I just don’t think that safety is the reason it is impractical.
No, but the attention span kids have these days seem to be shortening.
I hear this a lot but have yet to see evidence/sources from anyone. It’s just “look around you.” I don’t find it particularly compelling. I didn’t exactly sit quietly as a kid myself.
It’s a pretty well known fact that constant tech decreases attention spans, in both children and adults. How many times have we been on Lemmy/Reddit on the browser and picked up our phone to… check Lemmy/Reddit?
That appears to be a quickly referenced theory by one (yes qualified) person on one blog post without a study behind it. I could also argue that kids generally have short attention spans but social media just allows them to indulge in it more, and they will of course prioritize attention to that over other things. That is not the same as “it shortens their attention spans.” We need at least one study here or at least something more substantive than a one-liner linking social media and decreasing ones attention span. I’m not sure if you noticed, but blog is actually focusing on how to reach kids and strategies to get them to pay attention. It has one throw away non-cited line about social media shortening attention spans.
I should also point out that I also did a cursory Google search before writing the previous comment, and that was the only post I saw as well. The reason you selected it is because there was no other decent hit when you searched I imagine.
Let me be clear here, the only reason I am sort of arguing about this is because there is a really bad propensity for older people to say something is wrong with younger people. We see it over and over again. I think social media is actually very harmful to kids, but I have yet to see anything that shows it actually diminishes ones attention span. And the reason I really don’t like that claim is because it seems to be just another variation of “kids these days.”
The thing about smartphones and the internet in general is that there is a lot of crap out there. Sure kids may read more, but what they read matters. If they’re reading websites that deny the Holocaust or give bogus health advice like bleach curing autism or things like that, that’s not good. Without education, how are they going to know what they read on their phone is garbage?
I’m not them, but while ADHD is a problem, social media and the dopamine quick-hit style that internet content has taken has had a noted effect in reducing attention spans.
I mean, I’m doing quite well having gone though school without smart devices and 100% would have never gotten straight As if I had one when I was a kid. And I’m every type of ADHD you can be diagnosed as…
It’s 2023. Whether we want them or not they’re here. They in the workplace, they’re in our classrooms, they’re at home, they’re everywhere. Any attempt to truly prohibit smart devices is not as simple as it sounds and presents other challenges in the modern era.
Prohibition culture does not work for most things. If we want kids to stop using phones in class, we can take a more nuanced approach with taking it away as a blunt measure to occasionally deploy.
I mean it kind of needs to be both. But it’s hard to find a compelling reason why kids need their smartphones fully accessible during class.
Well, you can quickly search up some information. I don’t remember what it was, but I remember that once in middle school teacher said something I wasn’t quite sure about, but also I wouldn’t ask if I wasn’t more sure. So I looked it up, seeing that I was right, I asked if it rather wasn’t meant to be that other thing, he checked too and indeed he was wrong.
Also, my mind often wanders off. And it may happen that I suddenly can’t remember something. Could just be some word I could look up on my phone in less than a minute. Option B: Keep thinking about it till the rest of the class. I can’t stop thinking about that until I either remember or find it.
Next, spine. I am currently in high school. Phones are allowed here. Any time. So, I utilized my scanner and digitized one 500 or so page book I couldn’t find on the internet, and then used it as PDF instead of a physical book. It is less likely that I would forget my phone. I wish schools would have options for e-ink tablets instead of having to carry many heavy physical books. That used to be problem mostly in elementary school and middle school. Same goes for note taking.
Obviously, the last example can be easily solved by modernization.
Fast talking teachers. I can’t write that fast. I mean, I can, but then I can’t decipher my handwriting, which is already hard anyway. Voice recorder is a quick solution. Obviously, it is easier to look through notes than audio, but IT IS NOT MEANT TO BE A REPLACEMENT FOR NOTES, just a help.
But do take that with a pinch of salt. Especially in elementary school, I used to be one of those weird kids who greatly preferred being liked by the teacher over having friends. So even though I had a phone at the time, I never used it during classes because teachers disliked it.
But at least during breaks it should be allowed. Otherwise kids will find much more dangerous ways to entertain themselves.
… yes, my phoneless childhood was super dangerous. it’s amazing i survived a couple of decades without one!
I mean, comparing class with active kids throwing stuff around and ones just sitting and playing on their phones, I’d take the second. Cyber bullying may be hard to detect though, but it’s not like schools care either way.
Yes, life was so dangerous before the telephone. It’s amazing anyone survived decades without them! 991, phaw, we had a bucket of water and a shotgun.
… in summary. The point should be that the next generation has an advantage over the previous, in all things.
If you want to teach kids how to look up information, you can create spaces for that. They don’t need unrestricted access to their smart phones to accomplish that throughout the day. Hell you can relax your policies as they grow up and show the maturity to handle having a smart phone in the classroom. If schools want to do that, I am all in favor of it. But they would have to start early and build a system, which is a lot to ask of already overworked educators.
I am not talking about unrestricted access either. It depends on age, but they could always just ask the teacher if they’re allowed to look up something. And also I don’t see how disallowing phones during breaks helps education. It’s meant to be a break.
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Option C: Write it down.
It’s not like I am thinking about it to not forget what I wanted to remember. It’s that it will keep bugging me until I remember.
I have no idea what you’re trying to say.
Bugging you until you remember? You write it so that you can’t forget and so it stops bugging you.
Bugging you because you need that info itch scratched right now? Aka instant gratification. Then you have to learn to not need instant gratification. Seriously, it’s another skill.
Another skill is not caring if someone has a solution other than yours. It’d take half the time to write it down as it would just to look up the answer.
You’re making my argument for me. Although I’d say much less than half, you already have pen and paper on your desk.
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All this is spoken like an entitled bratty immature kid. (No offense, it’s just your age and you’ll grow out of it)
There’s a reason why you can get a ticket or be charged with distracted driving while you’re on your phone and behind the wheel of a car. IT IS A DISTRACTION. FULL STOP.
Stop lying to yourself and to us in the process.
Also if you trust kids with making life changing decisions, this is unfair.
Also sorry if I sounded as you described. I only started carrying the phone with me since I was 15. I was too worried about breaking it (it’s not cheap thing). That makes finding positive points (that would apply to younger kids) a bit harder.
Edit: Also, don’t be worried, I would almost never voice my opinions in real life.
Spoken like an introverted someone who HAS ALREADY been affected socially in a negative way by their cell phone use.
The entitled and bratty part of your comments = when people tell me not to use my phone I simply DONT use it or bring it. What’s the problem exactly? You want access to an encyclopedic knowledge in class? You don’t have a laptop or computer in the room you can use ?
Maybe you use your phone only for the most strictly academic things, but most people don’t.
Finally, I don’t trust kids to make life changing decisions. See all the high schoolers who got suckered into a worthless degree from the University of Phoenix. It’s very fair to take the reigns from people who can’t control themselves and their impulses.
Can’t disagree with this. I got a tablet when I was 8. With unrestricted access. On the positive note, it did help me learn quite a lot of stuff. Like English.
No problem, really. If someone wanted to search up something during class, teachers could just allow it, and generally they did. Except when I was in grade 9 and the school decided to prohibit even just having them at school, as if it were grenades. Some teacher would always just collect all into a bucket and return at the end of the day.
When we had free substituted classes, sometimes they would tell us something like “Sorry, I’d allow you phones now, but if I did I could have problems from it.” So clearly they would punish teachers for that. That’s just crazy.
And computers aren’t in every class. Even if they are, they might not always work. Now we use our phones even to do exams sometimes. But, yeah, school isn’t even mandatory for me anymore, so it’s already different.
I wasn’t even talking about such late decisions. For example, when I was 10 I was given the decision between going into class A or class B since I had good enough results for A. A was class for a little more talented kids. They even had some additional subjects. Well, my dad discouraged me from going to class A. He told me “There won’t be any normal kids. I’d choose B if I were you.” So I did. I regret. I could have gotten to a better school later on.
Some explanation of those classes:
A - Talented
C and D - sport classes (basketball and hockey respectively)
B - everything else
Next, when I was 14, I told my psychologist about my living conditions. Including photos of how our home looks like. She told me that she could call social services. Then asked me if I agreed. I was scared, so I said no. I regret, once again.
And something that’s there always, choosing high school when you’re 15.
I am not sure how it works across different school systems. In Slovakia, they are focused just on 1 particular field of study determining where you’ll be for the rest of your life. 3 year fields are without graduation (e.g.: various mechanics and plumbers). 4 year and 5 year fields are with graduation, meaning you can go to college/university.
I’ve had a few classmates who only chose particular field because their friends were going there too, even though they weren’t interested in it.
------------------------------
Oof, sorry. I got too much off topic.
Well, by their teenage years, why not all the reasons adults need smartphones fully accessible? Looking up information from authoritative sources? Emergency contact? Coordinating schedules for office hours?
Schools often simultaneously demand more from children than workplaces do adults, and give them less opportunity to excel.
I’m not saying work-inappropriate phone use should be accepted, but taking them away entirely is downright irresponsible. Just like schools who still demand students write on a notebook instead of using a laptop. Raise your hand if you had RSI-related issues for a decade or more after high school? We old people tend to forget how bad school used to be (and can be) for physical and mental health AND for learning.
Schools should just be one huge faraday cage. Kids have to learn to focus and pay attention.
And they need to learn the curriculum
I mean I’m not that extreme lmao that’s also a safety issue. Kids will be kids, they will not sit quietly all school day and be total lesson sponges lol
How much of a safety issue would it really be? Cell phones didn’t really become a thing for my age range until high school. If there was an emergency, there was a landline in the classrooms.
Right? Somehow schools survived until at least the 2010s without every kid having a cellphone in them at all times.
No kidding. Not to sound like an old fogey but we did really well without them for both “emergencies” and “fact checking”. I can only see them primarily as a distraction.
Yeah, it would suck for the staff, but I don’t think it would be that much more unsafe. I don’t think it’s a good idea, but I don’t think it’s particularly unsafe.
Ban pocket calculators because the abacus exists. Lazy kids aren’t learning how to do arithmetic because of them.
We don’t live in that world anymore.
Schools got by fine without the Internet until probably the mid-2000s. They got by fine without computers until probably the 90s. You can make that argument about literally anything in a school right now. We live in a society built around smart phones and tablets. We can’t just pretend we don’t.
Those were tools. Smart phones are a distraction for social media 99% of the time.
I’m sorry - computers and the Internet are “just tools” but smart phones are not? Do I really need to unpack that?
I already did unpack it: “Smart phones are a distraction for social media 99% of the time.”
Nor did I say the word “just”. You’re both ignoring what I did say and inserting your own words. They can be distractions with you know social media. But also back in my day they taught us Word, Excel, programming. You had a class with that. You didn’t need it in your pocket 24/7.
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I don’t think y’all realize that not a single staff member or administrator or any employee of the school would be able to use a phone either (other than landlines I guess?). Schools aren’t just full of students lol
You mean that thing I specifically mentioned? Yes, I realize that. Would it be inconvenient? Yes, it absolutely would. Would it suck to work in that environment? Again, yes it would. If I’m just thinking about safety, I’m not sure it’s that much more unsafe.
School shootings weren’t really a thing until after you graduated you dumb fucking boomer.
Things change, and I’m tired of stupid trogladites inhibiting innovation because it’s different than what they’re used to.
Get with the times, or move the fuck out of the way.
I’m not a boomer. And I’m in no way advocating the use of a Faraday cage. Maybe read what is actually written instead of what you think was written. Hell I work in tech trying to get people up with the times…
It’s incredibly unsafe when you live in a society built around smartphones/tablets for health and safety tools to remove said smartphones.
A faraday cage is a fun thought exercise but wholly impractical. A lot of emergency systems - such as amber alerts - rely on their connectivity. A lot of schools also give out laptops/tablets.
But is it? Landlines can make the same emergency calls. A Faraday cage also doesn’t mean you can’t have an internal wifi that reaches outside that the staff can connect to, or even the students can connect through with a proxy controlling their connection.
I agree it’s impractical. But it doesn’t mean laptops and phones suddenly don’t work. They can still work within the cage and you can poke holes through it with a landline and a proxy to control traffic in and out.
Ultimately, it’s definitely not worth the engineering and the effort. I just don’t think that safety is the reason it is impractical.
Ok go find the nearest landline during an active shooter.
No, but the attention span kids have these days seem to be shortening. Phones and the current state of social media intake doesn’t help.
That said, a faraday cage is absolutely too far, but they don’t need their phones when they should be focusing on the course.
I hear this a lot but have yet to see evidence/sources from anyone. It’s just “look around you.” I don’t find it particularly compelling. I didn’t exactly sit quietly as a kid myself.
Quick google search: https://santamaria.wa.edu.au/decreasing-attention-spans-jennifer-oaten/
It’s a pretty well known fact that constant tech decreases attention spans, in both children and adults. How many times have we been on Lemmy/Reddit on the browser and picked up our phone to… check Lemmy/Reddit?
That appears to be a quickly referenced theory by one (yes qualified) person on one blog post without a study behind it. I could also argue that kids generally have short attention spans but social media just allows them to indulge in it more, and they will of course prioritize attention to that over other things. That is not the same as “it shortens their attention spans.” We need at least one study here or at least something more substantive than a one-liner linking social media and decreasing ones attention span. I’m not sure if you noticed, but blog is actually focusing on how to reach kids and strategies to get them to pay attention. It has one throw away non-cited line about social media shortening attention spans.
I should also point out that I also did a cursory Google search before writing the previous comment, and that was the only post I saw as well. The reason you selected it is because there was no other decent hit when you searched I imagine.
Let me be clear here, the only reason I am sort of arguing about this is because there is a really bad propensity for older people to say something is wrong with younger people. We see it over and over again. I think social media is actually very harmful to kids, but I have yet to see anything that shows it actually diminishes ones attention span. And the reason I really don’t like that claim is because it seems to be just another variation of “kids these days.”
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Of course not, but I think we should at least act as if they should.
Knowing it’s not possible, though.
My kids are in 5th, 3rd and 1st grade. I wouldn’t want them on their phones during class as they grow up.
Like I said prior, I don’t think kids should be on their phones either.
Schools should be a battle royale, leave them on an island to battle and the last kid standing gets to go home.
How will this plan affect my real estate taxes?
Not well I imagine, but you’ll get to see an epic battle every exam season.
They do that multiple times a week, it’s called “phys ed”
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The thing about smartphones and the internet in general is that there is a lot of crap out there. Sure kids may read more, but what they read matters. If they’re reading websites that deny the Holocaust or give bogus health advice like bleach curing autism or things like that, that’s not good. Without education, how are they going to know what they read on their phone is garbage?
Stupid.
I will learn the curriculum when the curriculum stops being wrong and occasionally straight up propaganda
Can’t use that to explain Cs in math and physics.
Not all of us have the luxury of that ability
I have very little faith the person you’re responding to even acknowledges the existence of ADHD .
I’m not them, but while ADHD is a problem, social media and the dopamine quick-hit style that internet content has taken has had a noted effect in reducing attention spans.
Source?
Take your pick from any any of these
(Each word is a different link)
I mean, I’m doing quite well having gone though school without smart devices and 100% would have never gotten straight As if I had one when I was a kid. And I’m every type of ADHD you can be diagnosed as…
It’s 2023. Whether we want them or not they’re here. They in the workplace, they’re in our classrooms, they’re at home, they’re everywhere. Any attempt to truly prohibit smart devices is not as simple as it sounds and presents other challenges in the modern era.
Prohibition culture does not work for most things. If we want kids to stop using phones in class, we can take a more nuanced approach with taking it away as a blunt measure to occasionally deploy.