• Chozo@kbin.social
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    1 year ago

    This isn’t about Elon. While it’s about one of his companies, Elon has little to nothing to do with this story.

    • Hypx@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      Yes. It is not about Elon. It’s about the doomed nature of BEVs. Any technology that can give you a £17,000 repair bill just because it is wet means it is not a viable technology. Though it’s sad that people have been fooled by Elon’s bullshit about his companies. Which is why stories like this come up. Ultimately, BEVs are dead-end and this cannot be changed. It will be a matter of when BEVs are abandoned in the marketplace, not if.

      EDIT: Again, no amount of lying to yourself will change reality. BEVs are a dead-end and always will be.

      • Rooty@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        So a poorly made electric vehicle by one manufacturer means that the entire field is non-viable?

        EDIT: Lmao, check out this guy’s posts, every single comment is shitting on battery EVs and shilling hydrogen vehicles. I don’t know how much you’re being paid to shill for the fossil fuel industry, but I hope it’s enough.

        • Hypx@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          Lmao, check out this guy’s posts, every single comment is shitting on battery EVs and shilling hydrogen vehicles. I don’t know how much you’re being paid to shill for the fossil fuel industry, but I hope it’s enough.

          How many people are shilling for the BEV industry or Tesla? It is the biggest greenwashing scam of our time. Someone has to say something. You have reality reversed. It’s the pro-BEV people that are shills.

        • Hypx@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          All BEVs from everyone will have the same issues.

          EDIT: Lying to yourself will not change reality. A BEV will never be a low-resource type of vehicles. It is a matter of when, not if, it falls apart as an idea.

            • Hypx@kbin.social
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              1 year ago

              Explain to me how a car with a $20,000 battery can ever avoid a repair job of $20,000 once the battery dies? This is a problem that everyone will face.

              And in America, the land of SUVs and pick-up trucks, these costs will be even higher.

              EDIT: You won’t change economics by lying to yourself. BEVs are simply not viable. At least, not anything with a big battery.

              • bob_lemon@feddit.de
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                1 year ago

                This isn’t about the battery dying. It’s about Tesla failing miserably at building a water resistant enclosure for their batteries, them pretending that it’s somehow the customers fault.

                • Hypx@kbin.social
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                  1 year ago

                  It’s both about the shittiness of Tesla, and the eventually doom of all BEVs. If you think companies like Ford or VW won’t be building shit BEVs too, then I have a bridge to sell to you.

                  EDIT: Again, no amount of lying to yourself or others will save the BEV. It is doomed and always will be. If anything, you are just delay real solutions to climate change.

              • Honytawk@lemmy.zip
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                1 year ago

                Explain to me how a car with a $20,000 battery can ever avoid a repair job of $20,000 once the battery dies?

                It is quite easy.

                A battery like that lasts longer than the car. It may not have done in the past, but it does do so today.

                And if it breaks before then, you only need to replace a single cell to fix it.

                Afterwards, you can just recycle and reuse those exotic metals used in its construction, so it doesn’t require more pollution to create.

                • Hypx@kbin.social
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                  1 year ago

                  Much of that is wishful thinking. All batteries will die, and the repair cost will be insane. Not to mention it all applies to FCEVs and at a much lower cost and lower resource base.

              • Pipoca@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                Fundamentally, you can’t. The same as how a gas car can’t avoid a $5k transmission or engine replacement. Cars being totaled due to their most expensive part failing isn’t really a new thing or unexpected. Beaters are sold for scrap literally every day because it’s not worth repairing them.

                All cars have a limited lifetime. For ICE cars, that’s on average around 12 years, and things often start going wrong around ~150k miles. You can get particularly well-maintained cars to last much longer, but most people don’t. Classic cars are mostly a hobbyist thing for a reason.

                The question isn’t “will the battery eventually die”, its “will the battery last 15-20 years while still having 60-80% of its initial capacity?”

                And based on real-world data, the answer appears to be “yes, unless you have a lemon or really abuse your battery.” Lemons are also nothing new.

                • Hypx@kbin.social
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                  1 year ago

                  You can repair ICE cars. Unless you bought some complex luxury car, ICE cars are very cheap to maintain.

                  FCEVs will have something similar. They will be cheap to build and maintain. They do not have a giant battery to replace.

                  • ArumiOrnaught@kbin.social
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                    1 year ago

                    You? Lmao, nope. Gotta pay big bucks if you want new cars repaired. Pay a couple thousand upfront and then another couple thousand every year for new vehicle information. You can thank John Deere for that shift. I know, your car currently runs. For Americans, there is a certain point in buying a newer one is cheaper than repairing it. There will be a point where everyone is forced to have a shittier car because they are either all like that or you pay the big bucks. What are Americans going to do? Not buy cars, they don’t have the freedom to not have one.

              • ArumiOrnaught@kbin.social
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                1 year ago

                It’s not one giant battery, but arrays of smaller batteries. At least that has been my experience with them. Battery goes bad and you replace that array. Not 20k but closer to 2k.

        • Hypx@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          A fuel cell stack has a few hundred dollars worth of platinum. The rest is just conventional materials like steel or plastic. Not very expensive. The whole stack is very small too, weighing just 50kg for an average car.

          So with mass production, it will be less than a combustion engine. You’ll get more savings by getting rid of the transmission and catalytic convertor. You pencil out the cost, and going with “first principles,” the whole vehicle will be the same or less than a conventional ICE car.

          • zurohki@aussie.zone
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            1 year ago

            Yes, and an EV battery has a few hundreds of dollars worth of materials in it too, but somehow they’re always going to be tens of thousands of dollars and fuel cells will get cheaper due to mass production?

            • Hypx@kbin.social
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              1 year ago

              Actually no. It has thousands of dollars of raw materials in it. That’s why BEVs can’t go behind a certain cost floor. But FCEVs can.

      • Chozo@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        I don’t think the people buying Teslas are doing so because they believe them to be an economically viable option. They’re buying Teslas for the brand recognition/design more than anything.