wow, we are getting into these conspiracy theories, ya? well I’ll tell you that the IDF killed those 1300 Israelis.
now for some real info: Netanyahu supported Hamas to stay in power by targeting their opposition, there would be no Hamas if not for the Ethnostate government in Israel right now.
You joke, but I’ve seen sick people make that claim that the IDF killed all the victims. It’s as palatable as Alex Jones mocking the dead children.
Now for some real info:
Perez was winning and going to beat Bibi, publicly proclaiming that he will still pursue a two state solution with Arafat. Polls also showed strong national public support for a two state solution.
Hamas couldn’t have that, so right before the election, they executed a series of suicide bombings and bus bombings killing many civilians (which they always target). Immediately after that, Bibi won by less than a percent. Bibi paid them back by helping them get rid of Arafat, who still (publicly at least) claimed to want a two state solution.
Bibi and Hamas have been working together tightly and deeply ever since. They are the same people. If love to see Bibi tried for war crimes and many other Likud members.
All of this is fact, go do the reading if you don’t believe it. Hamas made Bibi.
Bibi and Hamas have been working together tightly and deeply ever since. They are the same people.
Ok now I’m drinking your Kool-Aid. However, the one caveat I would make is that it isn’t really “Hamas” here, it’s Iran, encouraging Hamas. Suffice it to say, there’s lots of political puppetry going on in this region.
The vast majority of Palestinians weren’t alive for the last Yom Kippur war - 50 years ago to the day of the 7 October holiday. Bibi was alive. It stands to reason that most Palestinians don’t even know what happened back then, let alone remembering it, but Bibi absolutely should have expected something on such a key anniversary. Instead, beforehand Bibi stirred shit with all the IDF troops, left weak border security on the day with clear single points of failure, then claimed ignorance when everything hit the fan.
However, him directing war crimes does not absolve the Israel troops who are actually committing war crimes. Both should be punished.
All pre-october apartheid war crimes absolutely. They don’t change bc of October and the collective punishment of civilians war crimes and more need to be held ICC.
But post October and until Hamas is gone, I think proving war crimes would be exceptionally difficult. Because of how they operate and their provable intent to cause as many casualties as possible, it makes it difficult to argue protected status for most targets right now.
100% with you, this isn’t just Hamas, it’s Iran, Quatar, Iraq, Hezbollah (not all of Lebanon), Houthis (not all of Yemen), and on and on. Pretending this is just Hamas is a bad call for sure. Most here do it here for ignorance or to feed an intentional false narrative about an underdog.
See I think the key point is that you assume at least half of all Gazans are guilty alongside Hamas because >50% of people in Gaza supported Hamas in the 2007 elections. Even assuming similar proportions now, I would argue that a large number of that supporting group are only the victims of propaganda, rather than organically and sincerely taking that position.
There were more than 2 million people in the Gaza strip, of which only 50,000 were members of Hamas. The rest are civilians, people who on one side face repression from Israelis and on the other face Hamas telling them they can make things better.
First, I definitely think you are right that they’re victims of propaganda. And then I ask myself, would that knowledge have me feel less recriminations to someone in the Klan who bought into their propaganda and lynched a man? And the answer, for me personally, is no.
No, I’m responding to the recent poll, the current best data we have.
According to the poll results, some 59% of respondents indicated that they “extremely support” Hamas’ actions on Oct. 7, with another 16% saying that they “somewhat support” them.
Those figures are roughly in line with overall support for Hamas, with the poll finding that a cumulative 76% of respondents hold either a “very positive” or “somewhat positive” view of the group when asked to rank their support for a list of Palestinian political parties.
And then I ask myself, would that knowledge have me feel less recriminations to someone in the Klan who bought into their propaganda and lynched a man? And the answer, for me personally, is no.
That’s where you draw a fictional strawman, one that isn’t you, and claim that you would be far more righteous and not fall for it.
It’s strange how you would refer to a recent poll, promoted by the IDF but yet fundamentally queried by Palestinian government, yet at the same time the IDF completely disregards (and yet doesn’t offer its own number) for the casualty numbers provided by Palestine. It reeks of cherry picking the numbers that suit your argument.
Israel have, so far, killed more than 10x the number of people Hamas did in one day. When is enough, enough?
How many Palestinian civilians need to die before Israel is satisfied?
Let me try and clarify, this was an independent poll conducted by the Arab World for Research and Development. An independent Arab polling organization. It wasn’t conducted by Hamas or the IDF or the PA, etc.
And as I’ve said many times, I don’t evaluate a conflict by whether one side has more casualties. The corollary is that the conflict would be more acceptable if more people died on the other side. Knowing that’s false let’s us know that the logic attempted has derailed. It’s simply ethically and morally bankrupt.
I also understand using a debate tactic to attack the data when it’s saying something that’s not compatible / supportive of the narrative one is pushing.
I’m happy to look at a different recent poll, or look at a source of yours why this isn’t the most recent and best numbers we have. I would love it if support for Hamas wasn’t so high and would be really pleased if the October attack was condemned and not celebrated.
wow, we are getting into these conspiracy theories, ya? well I’ll tell you that the IDF killed those 1300 Israelis.
now for some real info: Netanyahu supported Hamas to stay in power by targeting their opposition, there would be no Hamas if not for the Ethnostate government in Israel right now.
You joke, but I’ve seen sick people make that claim that the IDF killed all the victims. It’s as palatable as Alex Jones mocking the dead children.
Now for some real info:
Perez was winning and going to beat Bibi, publicly proclaiming that he will still pursue a two state solution with Arafat. Polls also showed strong national public support for a two state solution.
Hamas couldn’t have that, so right before the election, they executed a series of suicide bombings and bus bombings killing many civilians (which they always target). Immediately after that, Bibi won by less than a percent. Bibi paid them back by helping them get rid of Arafat, who still (publicly at least) claimed to want a two state solution.
Bibi and Hamas have been working together tightly and deeply ever since. They are the same people. If love to see Bibi tried for war crimes and many other Likud members.
All of this is fact, go do the reading if you don’t believe it. Hamas made Bibi.
Ok now I’m drinking your Kool-Aid. However, the one caveat I would make is that it isn’t really “Hamas” here, it’s Iran, encouraging Hamas. Suffice it to say, there’s lots of political puppetry going on in this region.
The vast majority of Palestinians weren’t alive for the last Yom Kippur war - 50 years ago to the day of the 7 October holiday. Bibi was alive. It stands to reason that most Palestinians don’t even know what happened back then, let alone remembering it, but Bibi absolutely should have expected something on such a key anniversary. Instead, beforehand Bibi stirred shit with all the IDF troops, left weak border security on the day with clear single points of failure, then claimed ignorance when everything hit the fan.
However, him directing war crimes does not absolve the Israel troops who are actually committing war crimes. Both should be punished.
All pre-october apartheid war crimes absolutely. They don’t change bc of October and the collective punishment of civilians war crimes and more need to be held ICC.
But post October and until Hamas is gone, I think proving war crimes would be exceptionally difficult. Because of how they operate and their provable intent to cause as many casualties as possible, it makes it difficult to argue protected status for most targets right now.
100% with you, this isn’t just Hamas, it’s Iran, Quatar, Iraq, Hezbollah (not all of Lebanon), Houthis (not all of Yemen), and on and on. Pretending this is just Hamas is a bad call for sure. Most here do it here for ignorance or to feed an intentional false narrative about an underdog.
See I think the key point is that you assume at least half of all Gazans are guilty alongside Hamas because >50% of people in Gaza supported Hamas in the 2007 elections. Even assuming similar proportions now, I would argue that a large number of that supporting group are only the victims of propaganda, rather than organically and sincerely taking that position.
There were more than 2 million people in the Gaza strip, of which only 50,000 were members of Hamas. The rest are civilians, people who on one side face repression from Israelis and on the other face Hamas telling them they can make things better.
First, I definitely think you are right that they’re victims of propaganda. And then I ask myself, would that knowledge have me feel less recriminations to someone in the Klan who bought into their propaganda and lynched a man? And the answer, for me personally, is no.
No, I’m responding to the recent poll, the current best data we have.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/palestinian-poll-finds-strong-support-for-hamas-oct-7-attacks-river-to-the-sea-state/ar-AA1k6mEx
Lots of sources have reported on it. If you don’t like that one you can find mNy more.
That’s where you draw a fictional strawman, one that isn’t you, and claim that you would be far more righteous and not fall for it.
It’s strange how you would refer to a recent poll, promoted by the IDF but yet fundamentally queried by Palestinian government, yet at the same time the IDF completely disregards (and yet doesn’t offer its own number) for the casualty numbers provided by Palestine. It reeks of cherry picking the numbers that suit your argument.
Israel have, so far, killed more than 10x the number of people Hamas did in one day. When is enough, enough?
How many Palestinian civilians need to die before Israel is satisfied?
Let me try and clarify, this was an independent poll conducted by the Arab World for Research and Development. An independent Arab polling organization. It wasn’t conducted by Hamas or the IDF or the PA, etc.
And as I’ve said many times, I don’t evaluate a conflict by whether one side has more casualties. The corollary is that the conflict would be more acceptable if more people died on the other side. Knowing that’s false let’s us know that the logic attempted has derailed. It’s simply ethically and morally bankrupt.
I also understand using a debate tactic to attack the data when it’s saying something that’s not compatible / supportive of the narrative one is pushing.
I’m happy to look at a different recent poll, or look at a source of yours why this isn’t the most recent and best numbers we have. I would love it if support for Hamas wasn’t so high and would be really pleased if the October attack was condemned and not celebrated.
You still have avoided answering my key questions.
Israel refute the Gaza deathtoll lfrom Palestinian sources as false. However, Israel do not publish their own numbers to support their objections.
How many civilians are acceptable casualties in Gaza, as far as the IDF are concerned??
The IDF have been tacitly reluctant in answering this question.
Their avoidance here us only just shy of accountability for their actions, if it even meets that bar.