This is EXACTLY what will happen. Federation will just mean “fuck you, I’ll go make my own instance since you don’t 100% agree with me” creating splintered echo chambers that accomplish nothing because they fundamentally lack the ability to work with others. Federation will absolutely not lead the rebellion.
Just look how many Lemmy varients there already are. In the first few months we already had Kbin, Mastadon, Lemmy(and all of it’s instance variations) and then Kbin even split and also became Mbin as well(which was literally “I don’t like how they’re running Kbin and they won’t do what I want, so I’m starting my own” by user Melroy). Remember how the first drama was “which instances should we block on our instance?” on pretty much every single location? How everyone quickly set out to make a name for themselves by which communities they filtered out? How we didn’t even make it a month before instances were defederating each other?
Time and time again humans blame the tools they use instead of reflecting and seeing that the tool wasn’t the cause, humanity is. This is how humanity acts. We’re tribal by nature. This is what we do. You’re not gonna just fix that with some new software. It’ll take cultural change on a grand scale.
in even split and also became Mbin as well(which was literally “I don’t like how they’re running Kbin and they won’t do what I want, so I’m starting my own” by user Melroy).
this is objectively bullshit. kbin was run and managed by one guy who could not keep up and had serious personal issues. the mbin fork is just a community developed version, far more resilient to individual dev whims but still open for anyone to contribute
The federated internet is not an open park where everyone hangs out together. It’s a billion small spaces that link to neighbouring spaces. The idea that defederation is a problem, or that people using different webserver software is an issue, needs to be left at the door.
This isn’t “Reddit but with weirdly more complex subreddit names”, or “Twitter, but everyone’s user name looks like an email address”, but a network of a thousand independent social websites, each doing their own thing.
And that’s a good thing. Expecting it to be centralized, corporate social media, only without the drive towards enshitification will make everything seem uncanny and broken. This isn’t that. This is something new.
That’s for perfecting illustrating what I’m describing. You think “this is it, this is the thing that’s gonna allow humanity to become enlightened!”. You’re hung up on the product like a bunch of other people, and not looking at the consumer. Federation won’t do shit to change human nature. That’s it’s own thing. Federation is just another social media tool in an already pretty large toolbox. You gotta teach humanity to work together, not just throw another platform at them and think that’s the fix.
I never said federation was in itself bad. People keep getting hung up on that and nitpicking. Just saying that it’s not the solution to humanities core problems that arise from our own instincts and behaviours. And that it won’t spur any revolution. It might be a tool used by the revolution, but it, in itself, will never be the revolution. People will be the revolution.
You think “this is it, this is the thing that’s gonna allow humanity to become enlightened!”
I don’t. And don’t you fucking dare put words in my mouth again. Your inability to read doesn’t mean I’ve said what you believe. Covering your eyes and going “everyone is stupid but me” doesn’t make you right. It just makes you not worth talking to.
You’re hung up on the product like a bunch of other people, and not looking at the consumer.
I’m a consumer of the product. The product that’s on offer here. You, on the other hand, are hung up on how the product isn’t the same as those other products over there. Trying to externalize your bullshit and put it on others, again, makes you not worth talking to.
Federation won’t do shit to change human nature.
And no one is saying it will. Stop arguing with scarecrows. They’re going to outwit you.
That’s the point of open source, being able to make your own fork.
The backend is AP not Lemmy, Kbin, mastodon, or piefed
The fragmented ecosystem of ideas doesn’t really exist except in a few servers such as beehaw, lemmygrad, and hexbear. Beehaw and hexbear don’t even care about federation.
All the people debating me on Mbins history and various software are not getting the point: PEOPLE couldn’t agree on how to run the fediverse, splintering it into numerous groups(for better or worse). These same people won’t agree on the causes or solutions necessary for a massive cultural revolution as well.
The fediverse wasn’t the solution to humanities problems. It was just attempt #284747737 or whatever. It was a bunch of high ideals about “if we give the power back to the people, this time it will be different!” while completely forgetting that reddit mods were just average people too until they became powermods and that whole system got corrupted.
The fediverse will never bring about the revolution. The only thing that can and will is the will of the people.
Unfortunately the people’s front of Mastodon defederated from the Mastodon People’s front.
This is EXACTLY what will happen. Federation will just mean “fuck you, I’ll go make my own instance since you don’t 100% agree with me” creating splintered echo chambers that accomplish nothing because they fundamentally lack the ability to work with others. Federation will absolutely not lead the rebellion.
Just look how many Lemmy varients there already are. In the first few months we already had Kbin, Mastadon, Lemmy(and all of it’s instance variations) and then Kbin even split and also became Mbin as well(which was literally “I don’t like how they’re running Kbin and they won’t do what I want, so I’m starting my own” by user Melroy). Remember how the first drama was “which instances should we block on our instance?” on pretty much every single location? How everyone quickly set out to make a name for themselves by which communities they filtered out? How we didn’t even make it a month before instances were defederating each other?
Time and time again humans blame the tools they use instead of reflecting and seeing that the tool wasn’t the cause, humanity is. This is how humanity acts. We’re tribal by nature. This is what we do. You’re not gonna just fix that with some new software. It’ll take cultural change on a grand scale.
this is objectively bullshit. kbin was run and managed by one guy who could not keep up and had serious personal issues. the mbin fork is just a community developed version, far more resilient to individual dev whims but still open for anyone to contribute
The federated internet is not an open park where everyone hangs out together. It’s a billion small spaces that link to neighbouring spaces. The idea that defederation is a problem, or that people using different webserver software is an issue, needs to be left at the door.
This isn’t “Reddit but with weirdly more complex subreddit names”, or “Twitter, but everyone’s user name looks like an email address”, but a network of a thousand independent social websites, each doing their own thing.
And that’s a good thing. Expecting it to be centralized, corporate social media, only without the drive towards enshitification will make everything seem uncanny and broken. This isn’t that. This is something new.
And something old.
That’s for perfecting illustrating what I’m describing. You think “this is it, this is the thing that’s gonna allow humanity to become enlightened!”. You’re hung up on the product like a bunch of other people, and not looking at the consumer. Federation won’t do shit to change human nature. That’s it’s own thing. Federation is just another social media tool in an already pretty large toolbox. You gotta teach humanity to work together, not just throw another platform at them and think that’s the fix.
I never said federation was in itself bad. People keep getting hung up on that and nitpicking. Just saying that it’s not the solution to humanities core problems that arise from our own instincts and behaviours. And that it won’t spur any revolution. It might be a tool used by the revolution, but it, in itself, will never be the revolution. People will be the revolution.
I don’t. And don’t you fucking dare put words in my mouth again. Your inability to read doesn’t mean I’ve said what you believe. Covering your eyes and going “everyone is stupid but me” doesn’t make you right. It just makes you not worth talking to.
I’m a consumer of the product. The product that’s on offer here. You, on the other hand, are hung up on how the product isn’t the same as those other products over there. Trying to externalize your bullshit and put it on others, again, makes you not worth talking to.
And no one is saying it will. Stop arguing with scarecrows. They’re going to outwit you.
The platform splits literally don’t matter.
That’s the point of open source, being able to make your own fork.
The backend is AP not Lemmy, Kbin, mastodon, or piefed
The fragmented ecosystem of ideas doesn’t really exist except in a few servers such as beehaw, lemmygrad, and hexbear. Beehaw and hexbear don’t even care about federation.
I don’t think the plurality of software is a problem, as long as they inter-operate correctly, but otherwise I agree.
One of the reasons bluesky took off better than mastodon is the lack of friction in signing up.
All the people debating me on Mbins history and various software are not getting the point: PEOPLE couldn’t agree on how to run the fediverse, splintering it into numerous groups(for better or worse). These same people won’t agree on the causes or solutions necessary for a massive cultural revolution as well.
To put it another way: Xkcd comic on standards
The fediverse wasn’t the solution to humanities problems. It was just attempt #284747737 or whatever. It was a bunch of high ideals about “if we give the power back to the people, this time it will be different!” while completely forgetting that reddit mods were just average people too until they became powermods and that whole system got corrupted.
The fediverse will never bring about the revolution. The only thing that can and will is the will of the people.