Here is todays devils panties and wow. Been knocking it out of the park this week to me. Although not really the take here it makes me think about mercury in fish. As a doomer I actually feel that even if global warming was taken away by a genie wish and we 100% did not add carbon going forward we are in real trouble because of pollution. In our planet and in our products. I mean it seems when people talk about the rise of civilization they talk about agriculture growing staple crops, but fishing to me is even larger in importance for civilization. Its been our staple protein for most of history. Then of course we have the use of pesticides causing the increase in arsenic in our staples to. ugh.
Lead and heavy metals will be added to spices by unscrupulous middlemen to increase apparent yield, and lead in specific is, for some reason, used in some older industrial spice grinders and will leave an intolerably high residue.
So instead of a recall, there should be a class action?
It’s complicated to hold the people responsible responsible, since they’re largely outside the US jurisdiction. The US companies that sold the product were, as far as anyone knows, ignorant of the contamination, buying from people ignorant of it who bought from people ignorant of it.
But yes, there should be, and are, lawsuits about the issue in addition to the recall.
Recalls are about public safety, and lawsuits about assigning blame or correcting wrongs. They’re not exclusive or substitutes.
A fair point. But in criminal law when you don’t know the guy in the passenger seat is going to jump out and shoot someone you still get life in prison for it. Civil litigation is not even bound by that and I would think a finding that they burned all their internal documentation to avoid discovery that they knew very well there was lead in it would be enough to award damages.
Like I said, there are lawsuits and there should be, because a business is ultimately responsible for what it sold and who it chose to do business with to a fundamentally higher standard than an individual is.
The consumer facing businesses can turn around a sue their suppliers to continue the chain.
Finding they destroyed documentation that they knew something would indeed be a pretty big smoking gun. There’s no real reason to think that they did though, since the businesses in question aren’t actually making any money off of it or in a position to benefit. They actually loose money by having to pull stock and destroy it.
In at least one case, we know which company added the lead and which potentially knew about it, they’re just in Ecuador.
Also, felony murder requires that you have intent to commit a criminal act. As written, not necessarily as applied, it would apply if you agreed to drive to a gas station robbery and your passenger killed someone. If you just agree to give someone a ride and then they kill someone you’re not culpable, assuming you said “oh hell no” and then didn’t continue to give them a ride post-murder.
I mean whats annoying is for my fence thing its not just lawsuits. I would get contacted by a city agency and be required to do a whole bunch of quick safety things and given a certain amount of time to fully remediate and maybe some fines regardless. heck if you let your grass grow to long they will use city guys to cut it and then give you a hefty billNfine.
what? Im sitting next to some guy and he kills someone and you think there is some sort of criminal penalty for me??? Whats the distance limit on that law? one seat over. 10 feet. is it like covid?
I think he’s referring to the getaway driver in a robbery where you get part of the stolen money.
The company is profiting from the poisonous cinnamon.
To be fair, if the lead is added by a middle man selling to the company, then the company isn’t making any more money.
I can definitely see a situation where that’s the case. It would be comparable to buying something off someone, you look at it and it looks like everything is in order, after you sell it on it turns out the stuff was stolen.
I’m not 100% sure, but I don’t think you can be held accountable in such a situation unless it’s proven that you either knew or should have known that you were selling stolen goods.
I mean that sounds like if I hire a contractor whose work is not up to code. In that scenario im still on the hook middleman or not.
That depends on what level you’re working at: If you hire a company to do electrical work as a part of your construction project, you’ll typically rely on that company to provide paperwork confirming that everything is in order. As your company does not have the qualifications to do the certification (hence why you are hiring a subcontractor), you cannot be expected to cross-check the work.
If the building catches fire due to an electrical failure, it’s the subcontractor that signed off on the paper whose held liable, not the company that delivered the end-product.
Similarly, if I buy a product and receive a certificate that it holds some standard, I’m permitted to assume the certificate is valid and re-sell the product, unless there’s some express reason I should have understood that something is wrong.
oh oh. yeah ok so there is more than just being next to the guy. Yeah I would think there would be a due diligence question to. I mean I can’t put a death trap of a fence up on my property or like dig a moat.
You’d have to check with your local criminal lawyer or DA who would likely point out such exciting charges as accessory to a crime, accessory to murder, aiding and abetting a crime, criminal conspiracy, and 8 or 12 other extremely similiar charges which would all be dropped simultaneously on you and you’d either have to hope a competent attorney can navigate those charges for you and convince a judge and jury you ain’t done nothin’, or, as they’d prefer, you plea to something like manslaughter and only spend a few years in prison and a decade on parole, or, just sign the paper that your friend did it and talked about it and only get six months and 8 years on parole (which is $350/mo, usually). Bear in mind you’ll be in jail until all that is settled, which hopefully is less than a year but no promises. Unless you have $50,000 on you, cash.
Oh, btw, the justice system is super fucked up.
whos to say its your friend. im still curious on the distance. murders happen in the world we live in. are we all accessories?
I’m not sure if there’s a feet-and-inches thing, but if you’re in the same car that counts.
what if your tied up in the trunk?
Because lead is cheap and easy to cast, I bet.
True, but in the modern era so is aluminum, and I would have expected essentially everywhere to have updated by now since we’re more than a century into knowing lead and food don’t mix.