Ok, I was not expecting such an extensive response. Anyway, thankyou for putting in the effort.

I find Facebook fits most of my needs. Would recommend to anyone looking for privacy and security baked into to the platform. You can tell it was built by a company with a strong moral ethos.

There might be an irony, and I kinda see it, but also I have the right to withhold my suspicions which at the moment I think harms noone.

Ok this is a difficult discussion but I will try.

I actually was aware that the war for the “liberation” of Libya was in reality serving US interests, just like the war on Afghanistan. I am also aware how freedom of press CAN also have huge downsides, with the Murdoch family owning Fox and Sky news, which spew heinous propaganda everywhere they go. As for instances of colonialism by european counties and the US, it is something I fully condemn. And even if Belarus is under threat by ploys from big banks (which I knew nothing about till now), Lukashenko is still a deplorable human being.

But why should we twist reality and not acknowledge the wrongdoings of the CPC as well? You are so ready to bring me these sources (with majority of which I agree), why is so difficult to agree on China?

I would actually like discussing communism, and if someone would point out some books, I would like to study a few things around. If you can recommend bibliography that explains the wrongdoings of liberalism, I am interested in that well.

I am not sure as to how respond to this one. I think it is a cheap effort to link the footage of tanks coming to a halt in front of the protester, as an example of “see, no harm done, therefore debunked”. Like, could the massacre not happen later on during that day?

And for any possible accusation towards the ccp, there always comes some source claiming the accusation is false. As of now, I have been told that the Uighur cultural cleansing is not true, the tianamen square massacre is not true, and that Lgbt rights are recognized in china. Wikipedia points to the opposite for each one of these questions.

Is wikipedia inaccurate? Maybe. But china is known for filtering the entire influx of internet to prohibit specific content from being viewed. North korea has a linux distribution that is configured to only connect to local intranet. Why exactly would I trust a secretive state more than wikipedia or reuters?

I fear that you might think of my response as an insult. Honestly I don’t wish to “own” anyone with “gatcha” moments.

I went through some of the links. To be honest, no matters the sources, I don’t think I can let myself trust viewpoints that align with highly authoritarian entities. I believe that you share the links in good faith, but that is a world view that I prefer to stay away from.

On the other hand I am more than willing to discuss socialism, in fact book recommendations would be welcome.

What I think happened in tianamen square aligns with the wikipedia article on it.

I transparently said that I can attempt to reconsider my perspective. A demand to reconsider my perspective repeatedly on the argument that I only read the “western propaganda”, is too much to ask for.

I can go ahead and admit that there is no cultural cleansing of Uighur muslims. Next talking point, the tianamen square. Again, “western propaganda”, it did not happen. The Maoist era? Again, it is intentionally portrayed as horrific by media, therefore “western propaganda”.

I do not accept to change my mindset and perception under a repeated, and frankly easy to abuse argument, that it is all some CIA conspiracy.

When I say support, I want to describe the “western propaganda” argument. That my perspective is skewed because I have only been influenced by media in European countries (where I live) and the US.

I mean, ok, I can make an attempt to reconsider. But then I see the same pattern. “Incident A” was not as bad as portrayed by media, “Incident B” the same, and so on. It ends up demanding that I change my perspective of history, which I am not willing to do, because it really is too much to ask for.

I am sure that upon examination of history, people here will unequivocally condemn the massacre that happened in Nanking during WW2 by the then japanese imperial army. But when discussing the tianamen square massacre, it was suddenly not that bad?

This gives me exactly the same feeling as nationalist apologia. We were the good guys when we inhabited this land (completely neglecting possible harm to others), and other nations were bad when they attacked our beautiful country.

I read your entire response, and my brief follow up is this. I don’t like or defend the US involvement in any country they have intentionally destabilized.

On the other hand, I cannot accept an answer such as, “you have only read the western propaganda”. You are asking me to deny any credibility of sources coming from western nations, either state media or independent. Even if there exist inaccuracies, I am not willing to just change my perspective just because of “western propaganda”. It really is too much to ask for.

And to add to add further to this, I remember another comment of yours saying you are trans (just to be clear I love and support trans people). Are you not concerned at all for the absence of gay or trans rights in china?