Michigan, Ohio, Wisconsin, Minnesota, and every other state I can think of to check with a deer population?
I’m not sure what you mean by selling a felling permit. You charge a fee for a deer hunting license.
Trophy hunting is quite different and also usually illegal.
What are you talking about? Hunting deer for the antlers is about half the reason people do it. If it’s illegal it’s probably the most regulated and licensed crime I’ve encountered.
Sometimes some populations are controlled. Like moose for instance. The populations are much smaller, and thus need more careful managing, so you can’t just kill any moose you like. A hunting club gets a certain amount of felling permits, and you can’t hunt without belonging to a hunting club, and you can’t join a hunting club unless you live in the municipality of the hunting club.
Hunting deer for the antlers is about half the reason people do it.
I take it you don’t live in the US, since a lot of what you’re saying is just grossly wrong if you do.
Since the conversation was about the US I’m not sure I understand bringing another countries laws into it.
I certainly don’t understand your response to the antler comment. I don’t know a single hunter who doesn’t have at least the antlers of their best buck mounted on the wall, and in many cases an ominous number of heads.
I don’t know a single hunter who doesn’t have at least the antlers of their best buck
Oh so most the hunters you know are so shit they’ve only killed two deer ever, since you said it was half the reason?
I don’t know a single hunter with deer antlers on the wall. Maybe in the 70’s akd 80’s if you happened to fell a particularly old buck with like 10 spikes or more.
But anyone under the age of 60 hasn’t had antlers hanging on their walls since the 90’s. Last time I saw some coincided with heavily nicotine yellow walls from indoor smoking.
Hunting roe deer is like shooting vermin, basically. While selling deer tags (apparently that’s what you call felling permits) is apparently possible and hunting licences don’t have tests and you can buy them as non-residents (jesus the US really is a capitalist shithole), who the fuck would want to hunt roe deer? I can see some large red deer being attractive for hunters, but that’s veering into trophy hunting. And since tje conversation is about population control and not trophy hunting, I don’t know why you’re bringing it up. ^(/s)
… You’re the one who brought up trophy hunting. It’s fine if you want to talk about someplace else, but usually people have some form of segue to let people know they’re shifting the topic. Otherwise you end up confusing people by talking about European hunting laws when they’re talking about US hunting laws.
Did you think the US had the same hunting laws as wherever you happen to be?
Licenses being sold to non-residents isn’t really the problematic part. There’s a quota and if it doesn’t get claimed the Forest service for whatever jurisdiction takes care of the balance.
We don’t have roe deer here. We have whitetail, which looks to be somewhere around half the size of a red deer, but there’s a lot of overlap in the weight range.
People put the trophy’s on the wall, and eat the meat.
If you’re interested in hunting it’s a pretty cost effective way to get meat.
Because you clearly don’t understand that that’s what you were talking about…?
Roe deer need management. A lot of it. And no-one is planting their antlers.
We don’t have roe deer here
Well sika is about the same size.
You’re imagining that only the handsome large ones get shot. When most of deer management is boring ass sitting and shooting roughly dog-sized herbivores.
And
There’s a quota and if it doesn’t get claimed
Not getting fulfilled isn’t the problem. It’s fulfilling it too well if there’s profit to be made so easily. God what a capitalist shithole.
People put the trophy’s on the wall,
I could bet my left testicle you don’t actually know any hunters irl. Strongly seems that way.
Or was it that all the “hunters” you know have only shot two deer in their entire lives?
Because you clearly don’t understand that that’s what you were talking about…?
What does that even mean? I made a comment about how recreational hunting isn’t critical to land management and you replied with questions about where tourists are allowed to hunt and trophy hunting being illegal.
We don’t have sika either. Most of the country has whitetail deer, elk, caribou or moose. For the most part you’re only allowed to hunt whitetail deer.
You’re imagining that only the handsome large ones get shot. When most of deer management is boring ass sitting and shooting roughly dog-sized herbivores.
Again, you’re projecting your knowledge of hunting where you are to how hunting is here. Hunters are restricted to one or two deer. Of course they’re not all perfect prizes but people hold out hoping to get a better one. There are also rules restricting which deer you can kill at different times centered around antler size. Depends on the area.
Based on the size of the deer you seem to have, our smallest deer are quite a bit larger.
Not getting fulfilled isn’t the problem. It’s fulfilling it too well if there’s profit to be made so easily. God what a capitalist shithole.
I’m not sure where you’re getting that the quota not being filled isn’t a problem. It leads to animal starvation because of the issues I listed in my first comment. Killing too many deer is poaching, and is preposterously illegal. The licenses aren’t sold by private companies, they’re sold by the government to regulate the population and it’s spent on the natural resource management. Different areas needing the quota to be caught up by government officials is a pretty common occurrence. The deer population in Detroit for example is rarely hunted, since find a place to legally do so is tricky, meaning the city government gets the state government to issue a permit for police sharpshooters to do it. Otherwise you end up with deer on the freeway.
Whatever country you’re in seems to regulate hunting based on “hunting clubs” and being a member in one, which is more privatized than our system. It also seems to involve a lot more “boring ass sitting and shooting roughly dog-sized herbivores” which sounds depressing and borderline sociopathic. Why do people join clubs to mass kill deer if they don’t get a trophy or meat? Just a love of killing?
We are a capitalist hellscape, but our hunting system seems pretty well adjusted compared to what you’re describing.
You’d be correct that I don’t know any European hunters. You’d be wrong that I don’t know any American hunters though.
Given that where you are hunting seems to mostly be pest management, I can see how you’d be confused that it’s not the same everywhere.
We have people who kill pest animals, but they’re not typically classified as hunters, and if they’re culling deer they’re probably employed by the government and the meat is legally required to go to charity if it’s fit to eat. Usually it’s coyotes though.
I made a comment about how recreational hunting isn’t critical to land management
Yeah. But hunting is.
Because this is about deer management, and not hunting antlers to put up on your wall.
You don’t seem to understand the difference. You clearly have a very stereotypical idea of hunter in your head. I wonder if you actually know any irl.
Haha, whitetail even better as it’s literally the smallest deer in the US as common as fuck.
Hunters are restricted to one or two deer.
Per lifetime? Wow. You really mean that? Two deers during their whole life? Are you sure you’re not trying to conflating a season to an entirely lifetime to make the “half are for antlers” shit fit?
There are also rules restricting which deer you can kill at different times centered around antler size.
No shit, deer management has actual rules? No way? Who could’ve seen this coming? And exactly how well do people who just come in and buy a right to shoot them know these laws? Not at all? Huh. Almost sounds like this “recreational hunting” is different from actual deer management. Which is what the discussion was about.
the city government gets the state government to issue a permit for police sharpshooters to do it
Yeah we just use the same hunters, because our hunters are actually regulated and tested. I’ve been with a friend to shoot a deer in between two houses. (We did have a suppressor, but they’re not like in the movies and it just makes it less unbearably loud.) It had to be shot as it had been injured.
But yes, exactly. The deer need managing and a lot (but not all or necessarily even most) of that management is culling.
And you can’t try to repopulate Chicago’s wolf population, can you?
Whatever country you’re in seems to regulate hunting based on “hunting clubs”
Wrong.
I already explained to you that part. You just inferred incorrectly. ;> (Perhaps Google moose management vs deer management)
Deer management is mostly the same in the US. You just do it worse.
borderline sociopathic. Why do people join clubs to mass kill deer if they don’t get a trophy or meat
Again, you don’t seem to understand what you’re talking about and projecting some weird fucking vegan stereotype of a hunter.
How exactly is it sociopathic to manage deer without seeing them as “trophies”? How psychopathic would you need to be to consider this
little thing as “a trophy”? A “trophy” of what? Having managed to kill a helpless dumbdumb sheep of the woods who don’t have two braincells to rub together, when you’re armed with a scoped rifle?
Ofc they get the meat. I do too. (Perks of having a brother who hunts. I’d do it myself if I didn’t live in the city. It’s technically possible but Karens and cops and I grow weed so I don’t risk it, since hanging a deer on my balcony would make Karens call cops)
But the main point of doing it is to MANAGE the deer population, because if you don’t do that, they whole ecology fails from deer overpopulating, overbrowsing and destroying the environment. Not to mention all the increased car crashes which can endanger lives.
Just because vegans are too shy to accept death is a natural part of life doesn’t make it go away. It’s easy sitting in your city apartment and judging those who actually work to help nature. (I do currently live in the city yeah but the first 2.5 decades I didn’t)
Our family for instance managed the deer because we owned forests. So it kinda makes sense to keep the nature around the forests functional.
But no, yeah “love of killing”. Make me laugh more city boy
A 800kg towering moose is a “pest” to you, eh? I mean, they can be a bit pesty by behaviour, but I don’t think that’s quite what you were looking for, lol. Ever wondered how it is to crash into an 800kg moose? It’s not safe, I tell you that. So managing them can’t really be left to fukwits with money and zero training, can it? Because that would be literally giving zero fucks about animals and nature and instead purely caring about profits.
We have people who kill pest animals, but they’re not typically classified as hunters, and if they’re culling deer they’re probably employed by the government and the meat is legally required to go to charity if it’s fit to eat
Source: “I just made this the fuck up because I’m a lazy reader and don’t know two shits about hunting anywhere in the world”
Okay, you’re just angry and rambling for no reason.
You seem to be simultaneously calling me a vegan, and also insulting me for calling some animals pests or acknowledging trophy hunting.
You’re also weirdly focused on when I said a trophy was “like half” the reason people go hunting. You know that that’s not saying “precisely 50% of all deer are killed for their antlers”, right?
Yes, moose and deer can be pests. Do you know what the word pest means?
I’ve been with a friend to shoot a deer in between two houses
Ah, in the states it’s illegal to discharge a firearm in a populated area, which is why hunters can’t hunt in cities.
If we let people wander around shooting guns in their backyards it would be almost as dangerous as an elementary school.
In any case, you seem really torn between wanting to defend hunters and to insult American hunters. Given your love of hunting and weed though, you seem like you’d fit in pretty well around here, since the hunting groups are the ones who typically have the more sane view on firearms and following the forestry rules, weed is legal and no one cares about your dead deer unless it’s rotting or something.
I’ll let you in on a secret: I’m not bothered by hunting in the least. When it comes to ecological management they’re invested in keeping it healthy, but that doesn’t mean the best course of action for the ecosystem is perfectly aligned with what hunting groups want. Personally, I’d rather sleep than wake up that early so I get my venison by the family barter pipeline.
You might go back and reread my initial comment, because at this point you’re largely agreeing with me, but you’re pissed about it.
Let me summarize it for you in more plain language: recreational hunting is only crucial for forestry and deer management because we’ve decided that’s the primary method we’ll use. We could do things more effectively and better for the environment but farmers, hunting groups and people who make money off the hunters don’t want that.
Michigan, Ohio, Wisconsin, Minnesota, and every other state I can think of to check with a deer population?
I’m not sure what you mean by selling a felling permit. You charge a fee for a deer hunting license.
What are you talking about? Hunting deer for the antlers is about half the reason people do it. If it’s illegal it’s probably the most regulated and licensed crime I’ve encountered.
Sometimes some populations are controlled. Like moose for instance. The populations are much smaller, and thus need more careful managing, so you can’t just kill any moose you like. A hunting club gets a certain amount of felling permits, and you can’t hunt without belonging to a hunting club, and you can’t join a hunting club unless you live in the municipality of the hunting club.
I take it you don’t live in the US, since a lot of what you’re saying is just grossly wrong if you do.
Since the conversation was about the US I’m not sure I understand bringing another countries laws into it.
I certainly don’t understand your response to the antler comment. I don’t know a single hunter who doesn’t have at least the antlers of their best buck mounted on the wall, and in many cases an ominous number of heads.
Oh so most the hunters you know are so shit they’ve only killed two deer ever, since you said it was half the reason?
I don’t know a single hunter with deer antlers on the wall. Maybe in the 70’s akd 80’s if you happened to fell a particularly old buck with like 10 spikes or more.
But anyone under the age of 60 hasn’t had antlers hanging on their walls since the 90’s. Last time I saw some coincided with heavily nicotine yellow walls from indoor smoking.
Hunting roe deer is like shooting vermin, basically. While selling deer tags (apparently that’s what you call felling permits) is apparently possible and hunting licences don’t have tests and you can buy them as non-residents (jesus the US really is a capitalist shithole), who the fuck would want to hunt roe deer? I can see some large red deer being attractive for hunters, but that’s veering into trophy hunting. And since tje conversation is about population control and not trophy hunting, I don’t know why you’re bringing it up. ^(/s)
… You’re the one who brought up trophy hunting. It’s fine if you want to talk about someplace else, but usually people have some form of segue to let people know they’re shifting the topic. Otherwise you end up confusing people by talking about European hunting laws when they’re talking about US hunting laws.
Did you think the US had the same hunting laws as wherever you happen to be?
Licenses being sold to non-residents isn’t really the problematic part. There’s a quota and if it doesn’t get claimed the Forest service for whatever jurisdiction takes care of the balance.
We don’t have roe deer here. We have whitetail, which looks to be somewhere around half the size of a red deer, but there’s a lot of overlap in the weight range.
People put the trophy’s on the wall, and eat the meat.
If you’re interested in hunting it’s a pretty cost effective way to get meat.
Because you clearly don’t understand that that’s what you were talking about…?
Roe deer need management. A lot of it. And no-one is planting their antlers.
Well sika is about the same size.
You’re imagining that only the handsome large ones get shot. When most of deer management is boring ass sitting and shooting roughly dog-sized herbivores.
And
Not getting fulfilled isn’t the problem. It’s fulfilling it too well if there’s profit to be made so easily. God what a capitalist shithole.
I could bet my left testicle you don’t actually know any hunters irl. Strongly seems that way.
Or was it that all the “hunters” you know have only shot two deer in their entire lives?
Because that’s ridiculous. :D
Why are you being needlessly aggressive?
What does that even mean? I made a comment about how recreational hunting isn’t critical to land management and you replied with questions about where tourists are allowed to hunt and trophy hunting being illegal.
We don’t have sika either. Most of the country has whitetail deer, elk, caribou or moose. For the most part you’re only allowed to hunt whitetail deer.
Again, you’re projecting your knowledge of hunting where you are to how hunting is here. Hunters are restricted to one or two deer. Of course they’re not all perfect prizes but people hold out hoping to get a better one. There are also rules restricting which deer you can kill at different times centered around antler size. Depends on the area.
Based on the size of the deer you seem to have, our smallest deer are quite a bit larger.
I’m not sure where you’re getting that the quota not being filled isn’t a problem. It leads to animal starvation because of the issues I listed in my first comment. Killing too many deer is poaching, and is preposterously illegal. The licenses aren’t sold by private companies, they’re sold by the government to regulate the population and it’s spent on the natural resource management. Different areas needing the quota to be caught up by government officials is a pretty common occurrence. The deer population in Detroit for example is rarely hunted, since find a place to legally do so is tricky, meaning the city government gets the state government to issue a permit for police sharpshooters to do it. Otherwise you end up with deer on the freeway.
Whatever country you’re in seems to regulate hunting based on “hunting clubs” and being a member in one, which is more privatized than our system. It also seems to involve a lot more “boring ass sitting and shooting roughly dog-sized herbivores” which sounds depressing and borderline sociopathic. Why do people join clubs to mass kill deer if they don’t get a trophy or meat? Just a love of killing?
We are a capitalist hellscape, but our hunting system seems pretty well adjusted compared to what you’re describing.
You’d be correct that I don’t know any European hunters. You’d be wrong that I don’t know any American hunters though.
Given that where you are hunting seems to mostly be pest management, I can see how you’d be confused that it’s not the same everywhere.
We have people who kill pest animals, but they’re not typically classified as hunters, and if they’re culling deer they’re probably employed by the government and the meat is legally required to go to charity if it’s fit to eat. Usually it’s coyotes though.
Yeah. But hunting is.
Because this is about deer management, and not hunting antlers to put up on your wall.
You don’t seem to understand the difference. You clearly have a very stereotypical idea of hunter in your head. I wonder if you actually know any irl.
Haha, whitetail even better as it’s literally the smallest deer in the US as common as fuck.
Per lifetime? Wow. You really mean that? Two deers during their whole life? Are you sure you’re not trying to conflating a season to an entirely lifetime to make the “half are for antlers” shit fit?
No shit, deer management has actual rules? No way? Who could’ve seen this coming? And exactly how well do people who just come in and buy a right to shoot them know these laws? Not at all? Huh. Almost sounds like this “recreational hunting” is different from actual deer management. Which is what the discussion was about.
Yeah we just use the same hunters, because our hunters are actually regulated and tested. I’ve been with a friend to shoot a deer in between two houses. (We did have a suppressor, but they’re not like in the movies and it just makes it less unbearably loud.) It had to be shot as it had been injured.
But yes, exactly. The deer need managing and a lot (but not all or necessarily even most) of that management is culling.
And you can’t try to repopulate Chicago’s wolf population, can you?
Wrong.
I already explained to you that part. You just inferred incorrectly. ;> (Perhaps Google moose management vs deer management)
Deer management is mostly the same in the US. You just do it worse.
Again, you don’t seem to understand what you’re talking about and projecting some weird fucking vegan stereotype of a hunter.
How exactly is it sociopathic to manage deer without seeing them as “trophies”? How psychopathic would you need to be to consider this
little thing as “a trophy”? A “trophy” of what? Having managed to kill a helpless dumbdumb sheep of the woods who don’t have two braincells to rub together, when you’re armed with a scoped rifle?
Ofc they get the meat. I do too. (Perks of having a brother who hunts. I’d do it myself if I didn’t live in the city. It’s technically possible but Karens and cops and I grow weed so I don’t risk it, since hanging a deer on my balcony would make Karens call cops)
But the main point of doing it is to MANAGE the deer population, because if you don’t do that, they whole ecology fails from deer overpopulating, overbrowsing and destroying the environment. Not to mention all the increased car crashes which can endanger lives.
Just because vegans are too shy to accept death is a natural part of life doesn’t make it go away. It’s easy sitting in your city apartment and judging those who actually work to help nature. (I do currently live in the city yeah but the first 2.5 decades I didn’t)
Our family for instance managed the deer because we owned forests. So it kinda makes sense to keep the nature around the forests functional.
But no, yeah “love of killing”. Make me laugh more city boy
A 800kg towering moose is a “pest” to you, eh? I mean, they can be a bit pesty by behaviour, but I don’t think that’s quite what you were looking for, lol. Ever wondered how it is to crash into an 800kg moose? It’s not safe, I tell you that. So managing them can’t really be left to fukwits with money and zero training, can it? Because that would be literally giving zero fucks about animals and nature and instead purely caring about profits.
Source: “I just made this the fuck up because I’m a lazy reader and don’t know two shits about hunting anywhere in the world”
Okay, you’re just angry and rambling for no reason.
You seem to be simultaneously calling me a vegan, and also insulting me for calling some animals pests or acknowledging trophy hunting.
You’re also weirdly focused on when I said a trophy was “like half” the reason people go hunting. You know that that’s not saying “precisely 50% of all deer are killed for their antlers”, right?
Yes, moose and deer can be pests. Do you know what the word pest means?
Ah, in the states it’s illegal to discharge a firearm in a populated area, which is why hunters can’t hunt in cities.
If we let people wander around shooting guns in their backyards it would be almost as dangerous as an elementary school.
In any case, you seem really torn between wanting to defend hunters and to insult American hunters. Given your love of hunting and weed though, you seem like you’d fit in pretty well around here, since the hunting groups are the ones who typically have the more sane view on firearms and following the forestry rules, weed is legal and no one cares about your dead deer unless it’s rotting or something.
I’ll let you in on a secret: I’m not bothered by hunting in the least. When it comes to ecological management they’re invested in keeping it healthy, but that doesn’t mean the best course of action for the ecosystem is perfectly aligned with what hunting groups want. Personally, I’d rather sleep than wake up that early so I get my venison by the family barter pipeline.
You might go back and reread my initial comment, because at this point you’re largely agreeing with me, but you’re pissed about it.
Let me summarize it for you in more plain language: recreational hunting is only crucial for forestry and deer management because we’ve decided that’s the primary method we’ll use. We could do things more effectively and better for the environment but farmers, hunting groups and people who make money off the hunters don’t want that.