… You’re the one who brought up trophy hunting. It’s fine if you want to talk about someplace else, but usually people have some form of segue to let people know they’re shifting the topic. Otherwise you end up confusing people by talking about European hunting laws when they’re talking about US hunting laws.
Did you think the US had the same hunting laws as wherever you happen to be?
Licenses being sold to non-residents isn’t really the problematic part. There’s a quota and if it doesn’t get claimed the Forest service for whatever jurisdiction takes care of the balance.
We don’t have roe deer here. We have whitetail, which looks to be somewhere around half the size of a red deer, but there’s a lot of overlap in the weight range.
People put the trophy’s on the wall, and eat the meat.
If you’re interested in hunting it’s a pretty cost effective way to get meat.
Because you clearly don’t understand that that’s what you were talking about…?
Roe deer need management. A lot of it. And no-one is planting their antlers.
We don’t have roe deer here
Well sika is about the same size.
You’re imagining that only the handsome large ones get shot. When most of deer management is boring ass sitting and shooting roughly dog-sized herbivores.
And
There’s a quota and if it doesn’t get claimed
Not getting fulfilled isn’t the problem. It’s fulfilling it too well if there’s profit to be made so easily. God what a capitalist shithole.
People put the trophy’s on the wall,
I could bet my left testicle you don’t actually know any hunters irl. Strongly seems that way.
Or was it that all the “hunters” you know have only shot two deer in their entire lives?
Because you clearly don’t understand that that’s what you were talking about…?
What does that even mean? I made a comment about how recreational hunting isn’t critical to land management and you replied with questions about where tourists are allowed to hunt and trophy hunting being illegal.
We don’t have sika either. Most of the country has whitetail deer, elk, caribou or moose. For the most part you’re only allowed to hunt whitetail deer.
You’re imagining that only the handsome large ones get shot. When most of deer management is boring ass sitting and shooting roughly dog-sized herbivores.
Again, you’re projecting your knowledge of hunting where you are to how hunting is here. Hunters are restricted to one or two deer. Of course they’re not all perfect prizes but people hold out hoping to get a better one. There are also rules restricting which deer you can kill at different times centered around antler size. Depends on the area.
Based on the size of the deer you seem to have, our smallest deer are quite a bit larger.
Not getting fulfilled isn’t the problem. It’s fulfilling it too well if there’s profit to be made so easily. God what a capitalist shithole.
I’m not sure where you’re getting that the quota not being filled isn’t a problem. It leads to animal starvation because of the issues I listed in my first comment. Killing too many deer is poaching, and is preposterously illegal. The licenses aren’t sold by private companies, they’re sold by the government to regulate the population and it’s spent on the natural resource management. Different areas needing the quota to be caught up by government officials is a pretty common occurrence. The deer population in Detroit for example is rarely hunted, since find a place to legally do so is tricky, meaning the city government gets the state government to issue a permit for police sharpshooters to do it. Otherwise you end up with deer on the freeway.
Whatever country you’re in seems to regulate hunting based on “hunting clubs” and being a member in one, which is more privatized than our system. It also seems to involve a lot more “boring ass sitting and shooting roughly dog-sized herbivores” which sounds depressing and borderline sociopathic. Why do people join clubs to mass kill deer if they don’t get a trophy or meat? Just a love of killing?
We are a capitalist hellscape, but our hunting system seems pretty well adjusted compared to what you’re describing.
You’d be correct that I don’t know any European hunters. You’d be wrong that I don’t know any American hunters though.
Given that where you are hunting seems to mostly be pest management, I can see how you’d be confused that it’s not the same everywhere.
We have people who kill pest animals, but they’re not typically classified as hunters, and if they’re culling deer they’re probably employed by the government and the meat is legally required to go to charity if it’s fit to eat. Usually it’s coyotes though.
I made a comment about how recreational hunting isn’t critical to land management
Yeah. But hunting is.
Because this is about deer management, and not hunting antlers to put up on your wall.
You don’t seem to understand the difference. You clearly have a very stereotypical idea of hunter in your head. I wonder if you actually know any irl.
Haha, whitetail even better as it’s literally the smallest deer in the US as common as fuck.
Hunters are restricted to one or two deer.
Per lifetime? Wow. You really mean that? Two deers during their whole life? Are you sure you’re not trying to conflating a season to an entirely lifetime to make the “half are for antlers” shit fit?
There are also rules restricting which deer you can kill at different times centered around antler size.
No shit, deer management has actual rules? No way? Who could’ve seen this coming? And exactly how well do people who just come in and buy a right to shoot them know these laws? Not at all? Huh. Almost sounds like this “recreational hunting” is different from actual deer management. Which is what the discussion was about.
the city government gets the state government to issue a permit for police sharpshooters to do it
Yeah we just use the same hunters, because our hunters are actually regulated and tested. I’ve been with a friend to shoot a deer in between two houses. (We did have a suppressor, but they’re not like in the movies and it just makes it less unbearably loud.) It had to be shot as it had been injured.
But yes, exactly. The deer need managing and a lot (but not all or necessarily even most) of that management is culling.
And you can’t try to repopulate Chicago’s wolf population, can you?
Whatever country you’re in seems to regulate hunting based on “hunting clubs”
Wrong.
I already explained to you that part. You just inferred incorrectly. ;> (Perhaps Google moose management vs deer management)
Deer management is mostly the same in the US. You just do it worse.
borderline sociopathic. Why do people join clubs to mass kill deer if they don’t get a trophy or meat
Again, you don’t seem to understand what you’re talking about and projecting some weird fucking vegan stereotype of a hunter.
How exactly is it sociopathic to manage deer without seeing them as “trophies”? How psychopathic would you need to be to consider this
little thing as “a trophy”? A “trophy” of what? Having managed to kill a helpless dumbdumb sheep of the woods who don’t have two braincells to rub together, when you’re armed with a scoped rifle?
Ofc they get the meat. I do too. (Perks of having a brother who hunts. I’d do it myself if I didn’t live in the city. It’s technically possible but Karens and cops and I grow weed so I don’t risk it, since hanging a deer on my balcony would make Karens call cops)
But the main point of doing it is to MANAGE the deer population, because if you don’t do that, they whole ecology fails from deer overpopulating, overbrowsing and destroying the environment. Not to mention all the increased car crashes which can endanger lives.
Just because vegans are too shy to accept death is a natural part of life doesn’t make it go away. It’s easy sitting in your city apartment and judging those who actually work to help nature. (I do currently live in the city yeah but the first 2.5 decades I didn’t)
Our family for instance managed the deer because we owned forests. So it kinda makes sense to keep the nature around the forests functional.
But no, yeah “love of killing”. Make me laugh more city boy
A 800kg towering moose is a “pest” to you, eh? I mean, they can be a bit pesty by behaviour, but I don’t think that’s quite what you were looking for, lol. Ever wondered how it is to crash into an 800kg moose? It’s not safe, I tell you that. So managing them can’t really be left to fukwits with money and zero training, can it? Because that would be literally giving zero fucks about animals and nature and instead purely caring about profits.
We have people who kill pest animals, but they’re not typically classified as hunters, and if they’re culling deer they’re probably employed by the government and the meat is legally required to go to charity if it’s fit to eat
Source: “I just made this the fuck up because I’m a lazy reader and don’t know two shits about hunting anywhere in the world”
Okay, you’re just angry and rambling for no reason.
You seem to be simultaneously calling me a vegan, and also insulting me for calling some animals pests or acknowledging trophy hunting.
You’re also weirdly focused on when I said a trophy was “like half” the reason people go hunting. You know that that’s not saying “precisely 50% of all deer are killed for their antlers”, right?
Yes, moose and deer can be pests. Do you know what the word pest means?
I’ve been with a friend to shoot a deer in between two houses
Ah, in the states it’s illegal to discharge a firearm in a populated area, which is why hunters can’t hunt in cities.
If we let people wander around shooting guns in their backyards it would be almost as dangerous as an elementary school.
In any case, you seem really torn between wanting to defend hunters and to insult American hunters. Given your love of hunting and weed though, you seem like you’d fit in pretty well around here, since the hunting groups are the ones who typically have the more sane view on firearms and following the forestry rules, weed is legal and no one cares about your dead deer unless it’s rotting or something.
I’ll let you in on a secret: I’m not bothered by hunting in the least. When it comes to ecological management they’re invested in keeping it healthy, but that doesn’t mean the best course of action for the ecosystem is perfectly aligned with what hunting groups want. Personally, I’d rather sleep than wake up that early so I get my venison by the family barter pipeline.
You might go back and reread my initial comment, because at this point you’re largely agreeing with me, but you’re pissed about it.
Let me summarize it for you in more plain language: recreational hunting is only crucial for forestry and deer management because we’ve decided that’s the primary method we’ll use. We could do things more effectively and better for the environment but farmers, hunting groups and people who make money off the hunters don’t want that.
Haven’t called you a vegan, actually. Comparing a thing to another thing isn’t saying that thing is the thing.
But American literacy, so, it’s alright.
“like half” the reason people go hunting. You know that that’s not saying “precisely 50% of all deer are killed for their antlers”, right
Yes, I do. It’s still a massively gross overestimation. That’s like saying fishermen fish for those weird filled record fish that the occasional weird restaurant has. Definitely not “half” or even close.
Ah, in the states it’s illegal to discharge a firearm in a populated area, which is why hunters can’t hunt in cities.
Same thing here, would you believe it? You thought our gun or hunting regulations are less than in the US where a large portion of the population is armed and you’re not required to prove your sanity before being allowed to get a firearm?
The friend I was with serves the exact purpose that the “police snipers” you talked about do. We just outsource them to hunters who actually know what theyre doing, not gun crazy pigs.
He has a licence for that shit (thus the suppressor as well, required for it) and is also the only hunter I’ve know who has a permit for a handgun for executing animals. (It’s not too rare for veteran hunters but I moved out instead of becoming one so only got to see his. Shot plenty of others tho, from non-hunters, including our heritage wwii officers pistol.)
I’m not rambling or crazy. I’m writing on forums. Don’t take everything as a personal attack just because it’s not 100% agreeal.
In any case, you seem really torn between wanting to defend hunters and to insult American hunters
Neither really. I defend all deer management for obvious societal reasons. That deer management involves culling. You SEEM TO (I emphasise it so you understand its what it looks like to me, whilst I’m not actually stating I think it’s 100% on the money) have a weird image about hunters. Maybe you only know some chad hunter’s who do it to feel macho or something. But idk anyone like that, mainly because it’s such harder here to get a hunting permit. Deer, rabbits, not too hard. You still got to pass a general theory and shooting test. For moose and other larger game, you have to be part of the hunting club and live in the same municipality. Because it deters touristy trophy hunting, and forces the emphasis on managing wildlife.
While shooting is ofc what a lot of hunters enjoy (not killing, per se, don’t make them out as psychos), it’s the meat that they more value. And most of the managing is setting up feeding places, counting populations, spotting them etc.
Which I firmly believe to be the case in a lot of places in US as well. Ofc there’s a lot of difference as well, but you’re sort of skipping over the majority of hunters who’re basically ever so slightly on the spectrum, love nature more than humans, and also happen to kill some of the nature, because to keep it pristine you must prune. Because humans settled these parts long ago and we just can’t have wolves roaming woods surrounding farms. Doesn’t work.
I wish it did. If love wolves. And hunters and farmers are way too aggressive against them. But unfortunately some truths are annoying.
You’re still stressing recreational hunting. Implying you understand there’s also non-recreational hunting. And I can tell you that for most of the year, the hunting is just boring animal management, and not “recreational” to the people except because those people like being alone in the woods making grain piles and setting up salt rocks and sitting on the aides of fields for hours just staring at dark field until they can spot some deer.
We could do things more effectively and better for the environment but farmers, hunting groups and people who make money off the hunters don’t want that.
Yeah. The USA definitely could. Your deer management culture seems shit. That doesn’t mean all the hunters are. Small but crucial difference.
But no, hunting is not a profit game here. Ergo “US is capitalist shit hole with poor hunting practices, recreational or no”
Yeah, I saw you were still being randomly antagonistic and disagreeable and scrolled to the end where you agreed with what I initially said, confirming that this entire thing was basically you being mad you didn’t know American hunting laws.
poor hunting practices
Eh. Our parks are probably bigger than your country, so your opinion is moot anyway.
Challenging something doesn’t mean “randomly antagonistic”.
Believe, you’d know if I was being antagonistic. You’re just painting your own assumptions onto actually neutral text. It’s a very common problem for the, eh, less cognitively capable.
So essentially what you’re doing is “I didn’t read that because I’m not here to have a conversation I’m here to win”. So… I’m guessing an American in their early 20’s, still seeing everything and anything as some competition?
So when someone with actual hunting experience shows you up, you just run away with your tail between your legs. Or perhaps it was actually that the comment was literally too long for you to even read.
And it proving you just so wrong makes it impossible for you to address anything in it even if you did manage to read it.
That’s crazy man. Hey, do you know if you can substitute applesauce for butter in a boxed brownie mix? I’m out of butter and the internet is giving me mixed answers.
… You’re the one who brought up trophy hunting. It’s fine if you want to talk about someplace else, but usually people have some form of segue to let people know they’re shifting the topic. Otherwise you end up confusing people by talking about European hunting laws when they’re talking about US hunting laws.
Did you think the US had the same hunting laws as wherever you happen to be?
Licenses being sold to non-residents isn’t really the problematic part. There’s a quota and if it doesn’t get claimed the Forest service for whatever jurisdiction takes care of the balance.
We don’t have roe deer here. We have whitetail, which looks to be somewhere around half the size of a red deer, but there’s a lot of overlap in the weight range.
People put the trophy’s on the wall, and eat the meat.
If you’re interested in hunting it’s a pretty cost effective way to get meat.
Because you clearly don’t understand that that’s what you were talking about…?
Roe deer need management. A lot of it. And no-one is planting their antlers.
Well sika is about the same size.
You’re imagining that only the handsome large ones get shot. When most of deer management is boring ass sitting and shooting roughly dog-sized herbivores.
And
Not getting fulfilled isn’t the problem. It’s fulfilling it too well if there’s profit to be made so easily. God what a capitalist shithole.
I could bet my left testicle you don’t actually know any hunters irl. Strongly seems that way.
Or was it that all the “hunters” you know have only shot two deer in their entire lives?
Because that’s ridiculous. :D
Why are you being needlessly aggressive?
What does that even mean? I made a comment about how recreational hunting isn’t critical to land management and you replied with questions about where tourists are allowed to hunt and trophy hunting being illegal.
We don’t have sika either. Most of the country has whitetail deer, elk, caribou or moose. For the most part you’re only allowed to hunt whitetail deer.
Again, you’re projecting your knowledge of hunting where you are to how hunting is here. Hunters are restricted to one or two deer. Of course they’re not all perfect prizes but people hold out hoping to get a better one. There are also rules restricting which deer you can kill at different times centered around antler size. Depends on the area.
Based on the size of the deer you seem to have, our smallest deer are quite a bit larger.
I’m not sure where you’re getting that the quota not being filled isn’t a problem. It leads to animal starvation because of the issues I listed in my first comment. Killing too many deer is poaching, and is preposterously illegal. The licenses aren’t sold by private companies, they’re sold by the government to regulate the population and it’s spent on the natural resource management. Different areas needing the quota to be caught up by government officials is a pretty common occurrence. The deer population in Detroit for example is rarely hunted, since find a place to legally do so is tricky, meaning the city government gets the state government to issue a permit for police sharpshooters to do it. Otherwise you end up with deer on the freeway.
Whatever country you’re in seems to regulate hunting based on “hunting clubs” and being a member in one, which is more privatized than our system. It also seems to involve a lot more “boring ass sitting and shooting roughly dog-sized herbivores” which sounds depressing and borderline sociopathic. Why do people join clubs to mass kill deer if they don’t get a trophy or meat? Just a love of killing?
We are a capitalist hellscape, but our hunting system seems pretty well adjusted compared to what you’re describing.
You’d be correct that I don’t know any European hunters. You’d be wrong that I don’t know any American hunters though.
Given that where you are hunting seems to mostly be pest management, I can see how you’d be confused that it’s not the same everywhere.
We have people who kill pest animals, but they’re not typically classified as hunters, and if they’re culling deer they’re probably employed by the government and the meat is legally required to go to charity if it’s fit to eat. Usually it’s coyotes though.
Yeah. But hunting is.
Because this is about deer management, and not hunting antlers to put up on your wall.
You don’t seem to understand the difference. You clearly have a very stereotypical idea of hunter in your head. I wonder if you actually know any irl.
Haha, whitetail even better as it’s literally the smallest deer in the US as common as fuck.
Per lifetime? Wow. You really mean that? Two deers during their whole life? Are you sure you’re not trying to conflating a season to an entirely lifetime to make the “half are for antlers” shit fit?
No shit, deer management has actual rules? No way? Who could’ve seen this coming? And exactly how well do people who just come in and buy a right to shoot them know these laws? Not at all? Huh. Almost sounds like this “recreational hunting” is different from actual deer management. Which is what the discussion was about.
Yeah we just use the same hunters, because our hunters are actually regulated and tested. I’ve been with a friend to shoot a deer in between two houses. (We did have a suppressor, but they’re not like in the movies and it just makes it less unbearably loud.) It had to be shot as it had been injured.
But yes, exactly. The deer need managing and a lot (but not all or necessarily even most) of that management is culling.
And you can’t try to repopulate Chicago’s wolf population, can you?
Wrong.
I already explained to you that part. You just inferred incorrectly. ;> (Perhaps Google moose management vs deer management)
Deer management is mostly the same in the US. You just do it worse.
Again, you don’t seem to understand what you’re talking about and projecting some weird fucking vegan stereotype of a hunter.
How exactly is it sociopathic to manage deer without seeing them as “trophies”? How psychopathic would you need to be to consider this
little thing as “a trophy”? A “trophy” of what? Having managed to kill a helpless dumbdumb sheep of the woods who don’t have two braincells to rub together, when you’re armed with a scoped rifle?
Ofc they get the meat. I do too. (Perks of having a brother who hunts. I’d do it myself if I didn’t live in the city. It’s technically possible but Karens and cops and I grow weed so I don’t risk it, since hanging a deer on my balcony would make Karens call cops)
But the main point of doing it is to MANAGE the deer population, because if you don’t do that, they whole ecology fails from deer overpopulating, overbrowsing and destroying the environment. Not to mention all the increased car crashes which can endanger lives.
Just because vegans are too shy to accept death is a natural part of life doesn’t make it go away. It’s easy sitting in your city apartment and judging those who actually work to help nature. (I do currently live in the city yeah but the first 2.5 decades I didn’t)
Our family for instance managed the deer because we owned forests. So it kinda makes sense to keep the nature around the forests functional.
But no, yeah “love of killing”. Make me laugh more city boy
A 800kg towering moose is a “pest” to you, eh? I mean, they can be a bit pesty by behaviour, but I don’t think that’s quite what you were looking for, lol. Ever wondered how it is to crash into an 800kg moose? It’s not safe, I tell you that. So managing them can’t really be left to fukwits with money and zero training, can it? Because that would be literally giving zero fucks about animals and nature and instead purely caring about profits.
Source: “I just made this the fuck up because I’m a lazy reader and don’t know two shits about hunting anywhere in the world”
Okay, you’re just angry and rambling for no reason.
You seem to be simultaneously calling me a vegan, and also insulting me for calling some animals pests or acknowledging trophy hunting.
You’re also weirdly focused on when I said a trophy was “like half” the reason people go hunting. You know that that’s not saying “precisely 50% of all deer are killed for their antlers”, right?
Yes, moose and deer can be pests. Do you know what the word pest means?
Ah, in the states it’s illegal to discharge a firearm in a populated area, which is why hunters can’t hunt in cities.
If we let people wander around shooting guns in their backyards it would be almost as dangerous as an elementary school.
In any case, you seem really torn between wanting to defend hunters and to insult American hunters. Given your love of hunting and weed though, you seem like you’d fit in pretty well around here, since the hunting groups are the ones who typically have the more sane view on firearms and following the forestry rules, weed is legal and no one cares about your dead deer unless it’s rotting or something.
I’ll let you in on a secret: I’m not bothered by hunting in the least. When it comes to ecological management they’re invested in keeping it healthy, but that doesn’t mean the best course of action for the ecosystem is perfectly aligned with what hunting groups want. Personally, I’d rather sleep than wake up that early so I get my venison by the family barter pipeline.
You might go back and reread my initial comment, because at this point you’re largely agreeing with me, but you’re pissed about it.
Let me summarize it for you in more plain language: recreational hunting is only crucial for forestry and deer management because we’ve decided that’s the primary method we’ll use. We could do things more effectively and better for the environment but farmers, hunting groups and people who make money off the hunters don’t want that.
Haven’t called you a vegan, actually. Comparing a thing to another thing isn’t saying that thing is the thing.
But American literacy, so, it’s alright.
Yes, I do. It’s still a massively gross overestimation. That’s like saying fishermen fish for those weird filled record fish that the occasional weird restaurant has. Definitely not “half” or even close.
Same thing here, would you believe it? You thought our gun or hunting regulations are less than in the US where a large portion of the population is armed and you’re not required to prove your sanity before being allowed to get a firearm?
The friend I was with serves the exact purpose that the “police snipers” you talked about do. We just outsource them to hunters who actually know what theyre doing, not gun crazy pigs.
He has a licence for that shit (thus the suppressor as well, required for it) and is also the only hunter I’ve know who has a permit for a handgun for executing animals. (It’s not too rare for veteran hunters but I moved out instead of becoming one so only got to see his. Shot plenty of others tho, from non-hunters, including our heritage wwii officers pistol.)
I’m not rambling or crazy. I’m writing on forums. Don’t take everything as a personal attack just because it’s not 100% agreeal.
Neither really. I defend all deer management for obvious societal reasons. That deer management involves culling. You SEEM TO (I emphasise it so you understand its what it looks like to me, whilst I’m not actually stating I think it’s 100% on the money) have a weird image about hunters. Maybe you only know some chad hunter’s who do it to feel macho or something. But idk anyone like that, mainly because it’s such harder here to get a hunting permit. Deer, rabbits, not too hard. You still got to pass a general theory and shooting test. For moose and other larger game, you have to be part of the hunting club and live in the same municipality. Because it deters touristy trophy hunting, and forces the emphasis on managing wildlife.
While shooting is ofc what a lot of hunters enjoy (not killing, per se, don’t make them out as psychos), it’s the meat that they more value. And most of the managing is setting up feeding places, counting populations, spotting them etc.
Which I firmly believe to be the case in a lot of places in US as well. Ofc there’s a lot of difference as well, but you’re sort of skipping over the majority of hunters who’re basically ever so slightly on the spectrum, love nature more than humans, and also happen to kill some of the nature, because to keep it pristine you must prune. Because humans settled these parts long ago and we just can’t have wolves roaming woods surrounding farms. Doesn’t work.
I wish it did. If love wolves. And hunters and farmers are way too aggressive against them. But unfortunately some truths are annoying.
You’re still stressing recreational hunting. Implying you understand there’s also non-recreational hunting. And I can tell you that for most of the year, the hunting is just boring animal management, and not “recreational” to the people except because those people like being alone in the woods making grain piles and setting up salt rocks and sitting on the aides of fields for hours just staring at dark field until they can spot some deer.
Yeah. The USA definitely could. Your deer management culture seems shit. That doesn’t mean all the hunters are. Small but crucial difference.
But no, hunting is not a profit game here. Ergo “US is capitalist shit hole with poor hunting practices, recreational or no”
Yeah, I saw you were still being randomly antagonistic and disagreeable and scrolled to the end where you agreed with what I initially said, confirming that this entire thing was basically you being mad you didn’t know American hunting laws.
Eh. Our parks are probably bigger than your country, so your opinion is moot anyway.
Challenging something doesn’t mean “randomly antagonistic”.
Believe, you’d know if I was being antagonistic. You’re just painting your own assumptions onto actually neutral text. It’s a very common problem for the, eh, less cognitively capable.
So essentially what you’re doing is “I didn’t read that because I’m not here to have a conversation I’m here to win”. So… I’m guessing an American in their early 20’s, still seeing everything and anything as some competition?
So when someone with actual hunting experience shows you up, you just run away with your tail between your legs. Or perhaps it was actually that the comment was literally too long for you to even read.
And it proving you just so wrong makes it impossible for you to address anything in it even if you did manage to read it.
Get rekt, kiddo.
That’s crazy man. Hey, do you know if you can substitute applesauce for butter in a boxed brownie mix? I’m out of butter and the internet is giving me mixed answers.