You act like there was a non-genocide option. Once Hamas did that attack, there was no stopping the crazy right wing Israeli government from doing what they are doing.
So what? The US should take a hard line against Israel anyways, even if it does no good, right? Great, so Israel is removed from the US sphere of influence and goes shopping for a new sugar daddy. That would be China, or more likely Russia. Now Russia is chummy with both Israel and Iran, which has the inconvenient little side effect that the Palestinians will lose the support of Iran. But who cares about the Palestinians anyways.
Any hope the US had of restraining Israel in any way whatsoever is contingent on our continued support. Without that, we have no influence and someone else steps in.
I’m not claiming that Biden has handled this perfectly, but the general direction he has gone has been in the best interest of saving as many Palestinian lives as possible. There are no clean hands in foreign policy.
Yikes. Way to miss the point. I was laying out the unintended consequences of naive foreign policy, and your pointing to a list of people you think are naive enough to do it - and you seem to think that’s a good thing. Assuming you are right, they would be fucking over the Palestinians in order to be smugly pro-Palestine. Form over function and virtue signaling instead of getting to better outcomes are hallmarks of third party politics in this country.
The outcome of a policy isn’t irrelevant to a policy, it’s the whole point of the policy. I didn’t make a wild guess or rely on my own intuition. That scenario is one of several that foreign policy experts are warning against. The worst case is Iran getting actively involved, but that’s far less likely.
my vote made Joe Biden win last time by the logic I’ve seen here. I’m going to keep voting for people who oppose genocide.
You act like there was a non-genocide option. Once Hamas did that attack, there was no stopping the crazy right wing Israeli government from doing what they are doing.
So what? The US should take a hard line against Israel anyways, even if it does no good, right? Great, so Israel is removed from the US sphere of influence and goes shopping for a new sugar daddy. That would be China, or more likely Russia. Now Russia is chummy with both Israel and Iran, which has the inconvenient little side effect that the Palestinians will lose the support of Iran. But who cares about the Palestinians anyways.
Any hope the US had of restraining Israel in any way whatsoever is contingent on our continued support. Without that, we have no influence and someone else steps in.
I’m not claiming that Biden has handled this perfectly, but the general direction he has gone has been in the best interest of saving as many Palestinian lives as possible. There are no clean hands in foreign policy.
Howie wouldn’t support genocide. cornel west doesn’t support genocide. jill stein doesn’t support genocide.
there are always options.
Yikes. Way to miss the point. I was laying out the unintended consequences of naive foreign policy, and your pointing to a list of people you think are naive enough to do it - and you seem to think that’s a good thing. Assuming you are right, they would be fucking over the Palestinians in order to be smugly pro-Palestine. Form over function and virtue signaling instead of getting to better outcomes are hallmarks of third party politics in this country.
if you were as skilled at diplomacy as you’re pretending, you wouldn’t be wargaming here. you can’t know any better than I do what would happen.
you are the one derailing the discussion about the actual policy of the candidates to make up stories about what you think would happen.
The outcome of a policy isn’t irrelevant to a policy, it’s the whole point of the policy. I didn’t make a wild guess or rely on my own intuition. That scenario is one of several that foreign policy experts are warning against. The worst case is Iran getting actively involved, but that’s far less likely.
let’s see any expert say what you said, and I’ll show you an Israeli shill