Israeli officials are exploring the potential construction of a “humanitarian compound” in northern Gaza to house displaced Palestinian civilians, two Israeli officials and an international humanitarian official familiar with the plans told CNN.
You are equating all Palestinians as Hamas which is just factually wrong. Israel are in did fighting a war to commit genocide of the Palestinian people in Gaza. This is not even debatable or something that Israel itself hides.
About half the population in Gaza are children. They also represent a significant share of the casualties and injured. Tell me how any of those children want to exterminate Jews and how Israel needs to defend itself from them. Tell me how indiscriminate bombings like that are justified.
And yes Israel did start this, decades and decades ago, and they are continuing with their plan. Hamas and Israel are both benefitting from this at the expense of civilian casualties.
You are equating all Palestinians as Hamas which is just factually wrong.
Hamas is the government of Gaza, which is part of Palestine. If you look at the link I provided it shows that Hamas and the Oct 7 attack has popular support both in Gaza and the west bank.
Israel are in did fighting a war to commit genocide of the Palestinian people in Gaza.
They are not. They go to great lengths to choose legal targets and even built an AI to select targets to this end. Perhaps there’s a reasonable case to be made that they are causing too many collateral deaths, but high deaths via collateral damage does not a genocide make.
This is not even debatable or something that Israel itself hides.
I call bullshit, iirc there was one Israeli mayor who said something fucked up but he does not speak for Israel as a whole. Citation, please.
About half the population in Gaza are children. They also represent a significant share of the casualties and injured. … Tell me how indiscriminate bombings like that are justified.
This is the tragic yet predictable consequence of supporting a government whose belligerents provoke their militarily superior neighbor then hides their members and military assets among the children, hospitals, and refugee camps of their own nation. Israel’s attacks aren’t indiscriminate, unlike the rockets that Palestinian groups regularly fire into Israeli populations.
Tell me how any of those children want to exterminate Jews and how Israel needs to defend itself from them.
And yes Israel did start this, decades and decades ago, and they are continuing with their plan.
Israel started off legally buying land in the levant, until Arab nationalists started murdering them for it, kicking off the cycle of violence that continues to this day and convincing the British that a 2-state solution was impossible. This is what caused the UN borders to be drawn and Israel to declare itself its own country. Palestine and its allies immediately declared war on them because they did not like this, and lost, causing the Nakba for those who left. Those who stayed are faring comparably better. Then they tried and failed, again, and again, and again, for 70 years… It reminds me of this meme.
Hamas and Israel are both benefitting from this at the expense of civilian casualties.
This is the first thing you’ve said that I agree with.
That’s a completely revisionist version of the creation of the state of Israel. The ethnic cleansing of Palestine was planned. And no, Palestinians do not want to genocide all the Jews. That stance has never remotely been popular in any respect, before or after 1948.
Suggested reading:
The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine. By Ilan Pappe
HISTORY OF MODERN PALESTINE: ONE LAND, TWO PEOPLES. by Ilan Pappe
Free on Library Genesis or your local library
Excerpt of Ten Myths of Israel. By Ilan Pappe:
None of this, Pappe argues, was unique because “Zionism was a settler colonial movement, similar to the movements of Europeans who had colonized the two Americas, South Africa, Australia and New Zealand… Settler colonialism is motivated by a desire to take over land in a foreign country, while classical colonialism covets the natural resources in its new geographic possession… The problem was that the new ‘homelands’ were already inhabited by other people. In response, the settler communities argued that the new land was theirs by divine or moral right, even if, in cases other than Zionism, they did not claim to have lived there thousands of years ago. In many cases, the accepted method for overcoming such obstacles was the genocide of the indigenous locals.”
From the beginning, Palestinian resistance was depicted as motivated by hate for Jews. The diaries of the early Zionists tell a different story, They are filled with anecdotes revealing how the settlers were well received by the Palestinians, who offered them shelter and in many cases taught them how to cultivate the land. “Only when it became clear that the settlers had not come to live alongside the native population, but in place of it, did the Palestinian resistance begin,” writes Pappe. “And when that resistance started, it quickly took the form of every other anti-colonialist struggle.”
I can’t help but notice all your sources are from Ilan Pappe, a controversial historian due to his anti-Israel and pro-Palestine bias, reliance on Palestinian accounts over other forms of evidence, distortions, omissions, and inaccuracies:
Hey, I’m glad you went out of your way to check for criticism. Holding skepticism and looking for verification is a great habit to have. However, I think it’s just as important to go farther and look into the criticisms to find out how credible they are. I have already looked into both the criticisms and their counters when it comes to Ilan Pappe. I was completely skeptical about what he writes considering what I thought I knew about the conflict. It was only after checking the criticisms, their counters, and seeking independent verification that I came to trust Pappe as a reputable source.
Here’s Pappe’s response to Benny Morris, where he debunks Morris’ claims
Make your own conclusions, to me it’s clear Morris is the one with myopic sources as he uses only the Israeli archives while Pappe and others cross reference them with Arab sources and oral history.
“Ben-Gurion’s 5 October 1937 letter thoroughly vindicates Ilan Pappé’s reading; indeed, the Pappé quotes to which CAMERA objects seem almost mild when compared to the actual words Ben-Gurion penned to his son. The more literal translation of the Ben-Gurion direct quote (“We must expel Arabs and take their place”) is actually stronger than Pappé’s freer rendering (“The Arabs must go”), although the meaning is basically the same. As for Pappé’s paraphrase, it is as accurate and comprehensive as any so succinct a sentence could possibly be.”
I don’t know why you’d take a reddit thread as evidence when there’s plenty of actually reputable historians praising Pappe’s work and credibility. You can find links to them in his wiki page.
Yeah, he openly admits his bias unlike others like Benny Morris. That doesn’t make what he’s talking about any less true, he’s just not hiding his bias. It’s an “alternate narrative” because the conventional narrative is a revisionist form of history. That’s what differentiates “new historians” compared to the old Historians of Israel, once the Israeli gov archives became declassified in the 1990’s.
You are equating all Palestinians as Hamas which is just factually wrong. Israel are in did fighting a war to commit genocide of the Palestinian people in Gaza. This is not even debatable or something that Israel itself hides.
About half the population in Gaza are children. They also represent a significant share of the casualties and injured. Tell me how any of those children want to exterminate Jews and how Israel needs to defend itself from them. Tell me how indiscriminate bombings like that are justified.
And yes Israel did start this, decades and decades ago, and they are continuing with their plan. Hamas and Israel are both benefitting from this at the expense of civilian casualties.
Hamas is the government of Gaza, which is part of Palestine. If you look at the link I provided it shows that Hamas and the Oct 7 attack has popular support both in Gaza and the west bank.
They are not. They go to great lengths to choose legal targets and even built an AI to select targets to this end. Perhaps there’s a reasonable case to be made that they are causing too many collateral deaths, but high deaths via collateral damage does not a genocide make.
I call bullshit, iirc there was one Israeli mayor who said something fucked up but he does not speak for Israel as a whole. Citation, please.
This is the tragic yet predictable consequence of supporting a government whose belligerents provoke their militarily superior neighbor then hides their members and military assets among the children, hospitals, and refugee camps of their own nation. Israel’s attacks aren’t indiscriminate, unlike the rockets that Palestinian groups regularly fire into Israeli populations.
You think you’re being facetious, but they do in fact teach their children to do this. Plenty more footage like that is available if you go looking, including Hamas summer camp.
Israel started off legally buying land in the levant, until Arab nationalists started murdering them for it, kicking off the cycle of violence that continues to this day and convincing the British that a 2-state solution was impossible. This is what caused the UN borders to be drawn and Israel to declare itself its own country. Palestine and its allies immediately declared war on them because they did not like this, and lost, causing the Nakba for those who left. Those who stayed are faring comparably better. Then they tried and failed, again, and again, and again, for 70 years… It reminds me of this meme.
This is the first thing you’ve said that I agree with.
That’s a completely revisionist version of the creation of the state of Israel. The ethnic cleansing of Palestine was planned. And no, Palestinians do not want to genocide all the Jews. That stance has never remotely been popular in any respect, before or after 1948.
Suggested reading:
The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine. By Ilan Pappe
HISTORY OF MODERN PALESTINE: ONE LAND, TWO PEOPLES. by Ilan Pappe
Free on Library Genesis or your local library
Excerpt of Ten Myths of Israel. By Ilan Pappe:
None of this, Pappe argues, was unique because “Zionism was a settler colonial movement, similar to the movements of Europeans who had colonized the two Americas, South Africa, Australia and New Zealand… Settler colonialism is motivated by a desire to take over land in a foreign country, while classical colonialism covets the natural resources in its new geographic possession… The problem was that the new ‘homelands’ were already inhabited by other people. In response, the settler communities argued that the new land was theirs by divine or moral right, even if, in cases other than Zionism, they did not claim to have lived there thousands of years ago. In many cases, the accepted method for overcoming such obstacles was the genocide of the indigenous locals.”
From the beginning, Palestinian resistance was depicted as motivated by hate for Jews. The diaries of the early Zionists tell a different story, They are filled with anecdotes revealing how the settlers were well received by the Palestinians, who offered them shelter and in many cases taught them how to cultivate the land. “Only when it became clear that the settlers had not come to live alongside the native population, but in place of it, did the Palestinian resistance begin,” writes Pappe. “And when that resistance started, it quickly took the form of every other anti-colonialist struggle.”
I can’t help but notice all your sources are from Ilan Pappe, a controversial historian due to his anti-Israel and pro-Palestine bias, reliance on Palestinian accounts over other forms of evidence, distortions, omissions, and inaccuracies:
This askhistorians thread about him on Reddit is telling:
He himself admits to being biased and creating an “alternate narrative”:
Consider getting your historical view of reality from better sources.
Hey, I’m glad you went out of your way to check for criticism. Holding skepticism and looking for verification is a great habit to have. However, I think it’s just as important to go farther and look into the criticisms to find out how credible they are. I have already looked into both the criticisms and their counters when it comes to Ilan Pappe. I was completely skeptical about what he writes considering what I thought I knew about the conflict. It was only after checking the criticisms, their counters, and seeking independent verification that I came to trust Pappe as a reputable source.
Here’s Pappe’s response to Benny Morris, where he debunks Morris’ claims
https://electronicintifada.net/content/response-benny-morris-politics-other-means-new-republic/5040
Make your own conclusions, to me it’s clear Morris is the one with myopic sources as he uses only the Israeli archives while Pappe and others cross reference them with Arab sources and oral history.
The CAMERA criticisms are easily debunked
https://www.palestine-studies.org/en/node/42571
https://mondoweiss.net/2012/03/we-must-expel-arabs-and-take-their-place-institute-for-palestine-studies-publishes-1937-ben-gurion-letter-advocating-the-expulsion-of-palestinians/
“Ben-Gurion’s 5 October 1937 letter thoroughly vindicates Ilan Pappé’s reading; indeed, the Pappé quotes to which CAMERA objects seem almost mild when compared to the actual words Ben-Gurion penned to his son. The more literal translation of the Ben-Gurion direct quote (“We must expel Arabs and take their place”) is actually stronger than Pappé’s freer rendering (“The Arabs must go”), although the meaning is basically the same. As for Pappé’s paraphrase, it is as accurate and comprehensive as any so succinct a sentence could possibly be.”
I don’t know why you’d take a reddit thread as evidence when there’s plenty of actually reputable historians praising Pappe’s work and credibility. You can find links to them in his wiki page.
Yeah, he openly admits his bias unlike others like Benny Morris. That doesn’t make what he’s talking about any less true, he’s just not hiding his bias. It’s an “alternate narrative” because the conventional narrative is a revisionist form of history. That’s what differentiates “new historians” compared to the old Historians of Israel, once the Israeli gov archives became declassified in the 1990’s.