You mistake what I say as endorsement where it is largely just a description.
Nice warmongering
In my book, war should be the very, very last resort. You may call me an imperialistic war mongering shill all that you want, but just know that I was already out on the streets back in 2003, protesting, when the US was about to invade Iraq. Major countries of the EU openly opposed that war, btw., enraging the US so much that the “freedom fries” issue came to place - remember?
Today, I very much support Ukraine’s right to self-defence, and I also believe it was right to throw down Nazi Germany in the 20th century (without implying that Putin and Hitler are alike). And it wasn’t Ukraine who fired the first shots, too.
Be my guest to speak your mind, yet I fail to see how you come to say this.
You […] scream about “national intertests” […] but never allow any other countries to act on theirs.
You can’t justify wrongdoings of A with wrongdoings of B.
You mean “puppet”.
Countries are not people, and the EU and Ukraine are very different in regards to their power. That’s just as close as you can come to friendship on that level.
… you cannon foddering your friends
You seem concerned about a global escalation of the war. What do you think would happen if NATO & EU led their own citizens to the battlefield? Then Russia would be at war with said institutions. What is it that you want now?
All in all, “economic warfare” looks like the most appropriate way of action for supporters of Ukraine, while I can understand that they wish for more.
you’re itching at the very prospect of nuclear war.
If we’re to blink every time people mention their nuclear arsenal, countries with such weapons could do whatever they want. Ymmv, but that’s not a world I want to live in.
Also, I wouldn’t call myself an experienced poker player, but even I have learned that when someone has to say that something is not a bluff, it most certainly is.
but just know that I was already out on the streets back in 2003, protesting, when the US was about to invade Iraq.
Yet today you are supporting neonazi puppet of USA being used to attack the opposition to the US hegemony.
Today, I very much support Ukraine’s right to self-defence
I support the people of Donbas right to selfdefence and selfdetermination.
Major countries of the EU openly opposed that war, btw., enraging the US so much that the “freedom fries” issue came to place - remember?
Oh yes the time when entire EU banded together to impose every imaginable sanction on the invader, and NATO organized all kind of pressure against it.
Wait, that did not happened at all. Nor any other time of the 200+ armed conflict US had their fingers since 1945.
That’s just as close as you can come to friendship on that level.
I also rember when Victoria Nuland organized coup in Ukraine (how was it “fuck EU”, right?), when Ukraine shat on the effort of Germany and France to mediate the Minsk agreement and when Boris Johnson torpedoed peace attempts few months ago. And EU also did not sanctioned anyone then. It would indeed turn out that Ukraine is not EU puppet, it’s more like all three entities of UK, EU and UA are just puppets of the greater world hegemony.
You seem concerned about a global escalation of the war. What do you think would happen if NATO & EU led their own citizens to the battlefield? Then Russia would be at war with said institutions. What is it that you want now?
Stop projecting, it’s you who is making remarks about Russia should be glad EU is not at open war at them. I would be more glad if they stopped supporting neonazi regime of UA and take a step back to REALLY mediate the peace. Unfortunately the Minsk agreement is not feasible now after the referendums, but UA had 8 years to stop killing people in Donbas and failed. Maidan clique is the core problem in this entire issue.
All in all, “economic warfare” looks like the most appropriate way of action for supporters of Ukraine, while I can understand that they wish for more.
It’s because not eveyone is craving for war like american reddit warhawks. Seems like hopefully not even Pentagon actually want this. Point is, the situation is not exactly going in their favour now and those fuckers might really get to the point of “apres mois, le deluge” at some point (not talking about Ukraine in particular but general situation). Agree with you that EU clearly do not want open war with Russia, but then again few months ago i also did not thought they will jump headfirst into such economy crisis of their own manufacturing.
If we’re to glimpse every time people mention their nuclear arsenal, countries with such weapons could do whatever they want. Ymmv, but that’s not a world I want to live in.
Agree, but it’s also majorly USA fault, from the very first bombs aggressively used to assert their expansion, through cold war arms race, raegan era unwillingness to disarm, to the recent case of DPRK where the constant USA hawking and incidents only receded after it got the means to actually threat USA. It even forced USA to actually sit and talk with them instead of spouting contant stream of threats. Not to mention Iran which resigned from its nuclear program only to get to the brink of being attacked by the ver same administration which talked to DPRK (and again EU mediating things was completely ignored the moment it stopped being useful to US).
Also, I wouldn’t call myself an experienced poker player, but even I have learned that when someone has to say that something is not a bluff, it most certainly is.
I would ignore Putin’s speeches as of now, they seems to be addressed internally rather than externally, which would not be surprising from their forms and that it is what he did even before. To get the actual stance of Russia i would rather watch the moves of their foreign ministry and ambassadors.
Man, honestly? I don’t even know where to start here. Let’s just say so much: At least Ukrainian neonazis are not elected in their parliament, opposed to those in France, Germany, Italy, you name it. If Ukraine is a neonazi US puppet state, who isn’t? And if that’s what you’re saying, you may be deeper into conspiracy thinking than you know (something even more apparent in “Ukraine is not EU puppet, it’s more like all three entities of UK, EU and UA are just puppets of the greater world hegemony.”).
Listen to yourself for once.
I support the people of Donbas right to selfdefence and selfdetermination.
That is probably the broadest definition of self defence in a long time. “Your honour, it all started when the other one punched back.”
the time when entire EU banded together to impose every imaginable sanction on the invader
I didn’t say those situations were 100% alike. My point was that there may be more to the EU’s position than being imperialistic war mongering shills.
I also rember when Victoria Nuland organized coup in Ukraine
Your posts on the topic are easy to find here, and display that you refrain from doing even the least amount of research that could shake your frail world view. Believe what you want, that’s none of my business, but you’re convincing no one.
UA had 8 years to stop killing people in Donbas
If you’re referring to the accusations of genocide by Ukraine, there never was never any proof of the whole thing. On the other hand, OSINT repeatedly showed fresh mass graves Russian occupiers had dug out before leaving, with very diverse bodies in those graves. You have to be knee-deep in propaganda to ignore these cases.
the situation is not exactly going in their favour now
I may be misinformed here, but to my latest knowledge Russia is not precisely advancing on all fronts, to put it mildly.
but it’s also majorly USA fault
It may be difficult acknowledging that there is not just one malevolent force behind all evil in the world (I was there too as a teenager and in my early twenties), but it pays off to widen your view.
I know that there are countries going after nuclear weapons as a matter of protection from invasion by the US, and I can see their point from their perspective. But still, that’s nothing I’d want to be implemented on a global scale.
I would ignore Putin’s speeches as of now, they seems to be addressed internally rather than externally
He is probably many things, but not stupid. He has to know how those speeches are perceived in the west. Even if they were for his in-group, the question remains why he has to dedicatedly say that he is not bluffing if he really isn’t.
The Oblast of Zaporizhzhia has roughly 1.6 million inhabitants. Now how come that there are less than 40k votes here? How is that possible if allegations are untrue that Russia, how shall I phrase it, “shaped” the participation to the referendum?
And why would you need to do that if you had a safe majority supporting your cause?
Thank you. It’s frightening how many propaganda led conspiracy theories are thrown around here without for once taking other perspectives into consideration.
Let’s just say so much: At least Ukrainian neonazis are not elected in their parliament, opposed to those in France, Germany, Italy, you name it.
This comment left me baffled, are you think all this official bandera worship is not done by their parliament and government or you do correctly not recognize the coup clique as democratic? Friendly reminder that they banned all political parties that even could not support them.
Also EU having neonazi problem to the point they enter their parliaments is reinforcing rather my arguments than yours, since we look at massive fascist resurgence across entire continent and what we see now is precisely consequence of this.
If Ukraine is a neonazi US puppet state, who isn’t?
Nice try but no. Ukraine is neonazi as evidenced by their fascist politics and literal fucking nazi banderist worship happening there on all levels of government. I won’t even mention large amounts of nazi iconography presented by their military.
Who isn’t? For starters every country targeted by USA by definition is not their puppet. Also large numbers of countries not aligning their politics with USA. Who isn’t neonazi? For example USA. It’s fascist, but not neonazi. EU also isn’t neonazi (yet). There’s currently only one neonazi country, that is Ukraine. Latvia and Estonia are also close, but those lacks the fascist politics, even though they have neonazi worship problem on official levels. India also have fascist government but hindutva is their local brand so it’s not neonazism (it also is not US puppet).
That is probably the broadest definition of self defence in a long time. “Your honour, it all started when the other one punched back.”
And here you are very hurt when i say you are shilling for UA. Considering you have been also accusing me for “conspiracy theories” it’s clear at this point you aren’t taking in any good faith.
Ukraine certainly has a very serious nazi problem and is putting it under the rug rather than even pretending to adress it, even before it had to rely on said nazis to defend the frontline. And I’m getting real sick of the #notallnazis argumentation from liberals.
But saying that Ukraine is a neonazi regime is plainly false, and putinian propaganda (Putin being himself very nazi-friendly, BTW).
If you restrict neonazism to literal imitation of Hitler and murdering Jews in gas chambers then it wouldn’t be. But it’s undoubtedly fascist regime akin to Pinochet junta, only less literally militaristic (giving them benefit of doubt even though war rages on for 8 years, although i have doubt how much exactly Ukraine government have control over the army now). What make them specifically neonazi is the offcial banderist worship and very strong presence of literal hitlerites in the army.
Anyway that point isn’t especially important, it’s mostly to point out the astounding hypocrisy of the west, especially western “leftists”. UA regime would be equally awful even ignoring it. If anything i prefer open neonazis that the socialfascist scum pretending to be leftists.
But saying that Ukraine is a neonazi regime is plainly false, and putinian propaganda
No it isn’t, even western media widely reported the spread of neonazism and the banderist worship. Hell, even UA is proud of the last thing and not very secretive about the first.
Putin being himself very nazi-friendly
I don’t see Russia building Vlasov and Kaminski statues.
You are throwing tinfoil hat slang at me. Who is the “coup clique” in your world? Or wait, I’d rather not know, I’ve got better things to do with my time.
EU having neonazi problem
That is not what I said. We’ve seen an uprise over some years, but in Germany for instance, the right wing’s growth has stopped since a few years. Also, the more say the right wingers have, the more friendly they act towards Russia.
Ukraine is neonazi
Ukraine’s president is Jewish and their Nazis are not elected to their parliament. That’s my point: You say that EU is not neonazi, but Ukraine is. And shall we have a look hat Nazi iconography display among Russia’s military? Your stuff just doesn’t fit. Unless you’ve been overtaken by the Russian standpoint that everybody is a Nazi who doesn’t agree with “Mother Russia”, even declared antifascists and anti-nazists.
Other than that, you’re drawing arbitrary lines and buzzing up thin air.
you have been also accusing me for “conspiracy theories”
I know a pattern when I see one. Attributing all evil in the world to the US is one of them.
You mistake what I say as endorsement where it is largely just a description.
In my book, war should be the very, very last resort. You may call me an imperialistic war mongering shill all that you want, but just know that I was already out on the streets back in 2003, protesting, when the US was about to invade Iraq. Major countries of the EU openly opposed that war, btw., enraging the US so much that the “freedom fries” issue came to place - remember?
Today, I very much support Ukraine’s right to self-defence, and I also believe it was right to throw down Nazi Germany in the 20th century (without implying that Putin and Hitler are alike). And it wasn’t Ukraine who fired the first shots, too.
Be my guest to speak your mind, yet I fail to see how you come to say this.
You can’t justify wrongdoings of A with wrongdoings of B.
Countries are not people, and the EU and Ukraine are very different in regards to their power. That’s just as close as you can come to friendship on that level.
You seem concerned about a global escalation of the war. What do you think would happen if NATO & EU led their own citizens to the battlefield? Then Russia would be at war with said institutions. What is it that you want now?
All in all, “economic warfare” looks like the most appropriate way of action for supporters of Ukraine, while I can understand that they wish for more.
If we’re to blink every time people mention their nuclear arsenal, countries with such weapons could do whatever they want. Ymmv, but that’s not a world I want to live in.
Also, I wouldn’t call myself an experienced poker player, but even I have learned that when someone has to say that something is not a bluff, it most certainly is.
Yet today you are supporting neonazi puppet of USA being used to attack the opposition to the US hegemony.
I support the people of Donbas right to selfdefence and selfdetermination.
Oh yes the time when entire EU banded together to impose every imaginable sanction on the invader, and NATO organized all kind of pressure against it. Wait, that did not happened at all. Nor any other time of the 200+ armed conflict US had their fingers since 1945.
I also rember when Victoria Nuland organized coup in Ukraine (how was it “fuck EU”, right?), when Ukraine shat on the effort of Germany and France to mediate the Minsk agreement and when Boris Johnson torpedoed peace attempts few months ago. And EU also did not sanctioned anyone then. It would indeed turn out that Ukraine is not EU puppet, it’s more like all three entities of UK, EU and UA are just puppets of the greater world hegemony.
Stop projecting, it’s you who is making remarks about Russia should be glad EU is not at open war at them. I would be more glad if they stopped supporting neonazi regime of UA and take a step back to REALLY mediate the peace. Unfortunately the Minsk agreement is not feasible now after the referendums, but UA had 8 years to stop killing people in Donbas and failed. Maidan clique is the core problem in this entire issue.
It’s because not eveyone is craving for war like american reddit warhawks. Seems like hopefully not even Pentagon actually want this. Point is, the situation is not exactly going in their favour now and those fuckers might really get to the point of “apres mois, le deluge” at some point (not talking about Ukraine in particular but general situation). Agree with you that EU clearly do not want open war with Russia, but then again few months ago i also did not thought they will jump headfirst into such economy crisis of their own manufacturing.
Agree, but it’s also majorly USA fault, from the very first bombs aggressively used to assert their expansion, through cold war arms race, raegan era unwillingness to disarm, to the recent case of DPRK where the constant USA hawking and incidents only receded after it got the means to actually threat USA. It even forced USA to actually sit and talk with them instead of spouting contant stream of threats. Not to mention Iran which resigned from its nuclear program only to get to the brink of being attacked by the ver same administration which talked to DPRK (and again EU mediating things was completely ignored the moment it stopped being useful to US).
I would ignore Putin’s speeches as of now, they seems to be addressed internally rather than externally, which would not be surprising from their forms and that it is what he did even before. To get the actual stance of Russia i would rather watch the moves of their foreign ministry and ambassadors.
Man, honestly? I don’t even know where to start here. Let’s just say so much: At least Ukrainian neonazis are not elected in their parliament, opposed to those in France, Germany, Italy, you name it. If Ukraine is a neonazi US puppet state, who isn’t? And if that’s what you’re saying, you may be deeper into conspiracy thinking than you know (something even more apparent in “Ukraine is not EU puppet, it’s more like all three entities of UK, EU and UA are just puppets of the greater world hegemony.”).
Listen to yourself for once.
That is probably the broadest definition of self defence in a long time. “Your honour, it all started when the other one punched back.”
I didn’t say those situations were 100% alike. My point was that there may be more to the EU’s position than being imperialistic war mongering shills.
Your posts on the topic are easy to find here, and display that you refrain from doing even the least amount of research that could shake your frail world view. Believe what you want, that’s none of my business, but you’re convincing no one.
If you’re referring to the accusations of genocide by Ukraine, there never was never any proof of the whole thing. On the other hand, OSINT repeatedly showed fresh mass graves Russian occupiers had dug out before leaving, with very diverse bodies in those graves. You have to be knee-deep in propaganda to ignore these cases.
I may be misinformed here, but to my latest knowledge Russia is not precisely advancing on all fronts, to put it mildly.
It may be difficult acknowledging that there is not just one malevolent force behind all evil in the world (I was there too as a teenager and in my early twenties), but it pays off to widen your view.
I know that there are countries going after nuclear weapons as a matter of protection from invasion by the US, and I can see their point from their perspective. But still, that’s nothing I’d want to be implemented on a global scale.
He is probably many things, but not stupid. He has to know how those speeches are perceived in the west. Even if they were for his in-group, the question remains why he has to dedicatedly say that he is not bluffing if he really isn’t.
Oh and on the topic of self determination of the people of Donbas - look at this:
translated with Google lens:
The Oblast of Zaporizhzhia has roughly 1.6 million inhabitants. Now how come that there are less than 40k votes here? How is that possible if allegations are untrue that Russia, how shall I phrase it, “shaped” the participation to the referendum?
And why would you need to do that if you had a safe majority supporting your cause?
Thank you. It’s frightening how many propaganda led conspiracy theories are thrown around here without for once taking other perspectives into consideration.
This comment left me baffled, are you think all this official bandera worship is not done by their parliament and government or you do correctly not recognize the coup clique as democratic? Friendly reminder that they banned all political parties that even could not support them.
Also EU having neonazi problem to the point they enter their parliaments is reinforcing rather my arguments than yours, since we look at massive fascist resurgence across entire continent and what we see now is precisely consequence of this.
Nice try but no. Ukraine is neonazi as evidenced by their fascist politics and literal fucking nazi banderist worship happening there on all levels of government. I won’t even mention large amounts of nazi iconography presented by their military.
Who isn’t? For starters every country targeted by USA by definition is not their puppet. Also large numbers of countries not aligning their politics with USA. Who isn’t neonazi? For example USA. It’s fascist, but not neonazi. EU also isn’t neonazi (yet). There’s currently only one neonazi country, that is Ukraine. Latvia and Estonia are also close, but those lacks the fascist politics, even though they have neonazi worship problem on official levels. India also have fascist government but hindutva is their local brand so it’s not neonazism (it also is not US puppet).
And here you are very hurt when i say you are shilling for UA. Considering you have been also accusing me for “conspiracy theories” it’s clear at this point you aren’t taking in any good faith.
@PolandIsAStateOfMind @Aarkon
Ukraine certainly has a very serious nazi problem and is putting it under the rug rather than even pretending to adress it, even before it had to rely on said nazis to defend the frontline. And I’m getting real sick of the #notallnazis argumentation from liberals.
But saying that Ukraine is a neonazi regime is plainly false, and putinian propaganda (Putin being himself very nazi-friendly, BTW).
If you restrict neonazism to literal imitation of Hitler and murdering Jews in gas chambers then it wouldn’t be. But it’s undoubtedly fascist regime akin to Pinochet junta, only less literally militaristic (giving them benefit of doubt even though war rages on for 8 years, although i have doubt how much exactly Ukraine government have control over the army now). What make them specifically neonazi is the offcial banderist worship and very strong presence of literal hitlerites in the army.
Anyway that point isn’t especially important, it’s mostly to point out the astounding hypocrisy of the west, especially western “leftists”. UA regime would be equally awful even ignoring it. If anything i prefer open neonazis that the socialfascist scum pretending to be leftists.
No it isn’t, even western media widely reported the spread of neonazism and the banderist worship. Hell, even UA is proud of the last thing and not very secretive about the first.
I don’t see Russia building Vlasov and Kaminski statues.
I’ll just leave that here, for whoever still thinks Putin’s war is about smashing Nazis in Ukraine. https://9gag.com/gag/aWgpQ1x
9gag XD
So your point is you doubt that
?
Such substance, so wow! 🤡
You are throwing tinfoil hat slang at me. Who is the “coup clique” in your world? Or wait, I’d rather not know, I’ve got better things to do with my time.
That is not what I said. We’ve seen an uprise over some years, but in Germany for instance, the right wing’s growth has stopped since a few years. Also, the more say the right wingers have, the more friendly they act towards Russia.
Ukraine’s president is Jewish and their Nazis are not elected to their parliament. That’s my point: You say that EU is not neonazi, but Ukraine is. And shall we have a look hat Nazi iconography display among Russia’s military? Your stuff just doesn’t fit. Unless you’ve been overtaken by the Russian standpoint that everybody is a Nazi who doesn’t agree with “Mother Russia”, even declared antifascists and anti-nazists.
Other than that, you’re drawing arbitrary lines and buzzing up thin air.
I know a pattern when I see one. Attributing all evil in the world to the US is one of them.