More like erasure in 10 years or less
Now let a qualified person say it.
Von der Leyen talking about skills. Just my kind of humour.
Why bring skills? Why not train people?
Birthrate in Europe is declining
I thought automation was going to take all the jobs? Seems like one problem solves the other
Robots don’t pay taxes, health insurance or into the retirement fund that old people will need.
We’ve never ran out of jobs though
That’s exactly the point. Taxes aren’t the problem either. Unpaid taxes are.
for years it has been a capitalistic idea that if a country has more people in it, it’s always better, because that means there’s more workers who can be exploited by companies.
that’s however changing right now, because capitalists are understanding that if there’s more people in the country, then you also need to feed and house them (or there’s social unrest) and that costs money. And if you can’t give people good jobs (like, due to automation there’s fewer jobs in total), then you’re essentially paying for people to sit around and do nothing, and that’s expensive and probably not in the capitalist interest. that’s why we’re seeing a change of narrative in social media rn, where there’s less talking of “we need more people, muh duh, declining birthrate” and more people saying “well, actually, a declining birthrate is a good thing” and such.
Jesus. Depopulation bad, no matter the system. Fewer people producing and paying taxes, bad. Now who takes care of the non-working population, the elderly, the plain stupid, the handicapped?
We have never had to figure a way around this issue, but it’s coming, fast and hard. Japan looks first up to bat, let’s see how they navigate it.
You sound like you have it all figured out (based on what you read on social media)! Love to hear your strategy! Governments all over the planet need your input. Be the hero we all need.
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And have them demand to be paid? Sheesh.
And what sort of skills are we talking about? It’s not like most of the migrants coming illegally now are doctors and surgeons. That’s a very very tiny portion and I’m willing to bet they are already much more likely to have avenues to come in legally. Highly skilled, university trained people aren’t the ones crowding the migrant boats.
@Saapas
Been having a deep draught of the “illegals!!” Kool-Aid, have we?Got an honest rebuttal? Anything said there was false? Love to hear it! (You got nothing and you know it. That’s why you changed the subject and picked a single word out to rebut.)
“Illegal” does not mean “criminal”. Running a stop sign is illegal. It does not make me a criminal.
Or do you have some fancy new word for people that cross borders in contradiction to law? Love to hear it!
I have no idea what you’re trying to say with this one tbh
I think it boils down to you being a dick
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Don’t you need skilled people to train others?
Hush, don’t disturb their xenophobia with rational thought
Wow, so even the conservatives now realized that if you leave no legal avenue for migrants, they will simply come here illegally?
But let’s not get too crazy. If you flee your country with no way of obtaining a work permit in your country, you are still screwed.
Not exactly. Immigrants without valuable skills will go illegally; those with valuable skills will just go somewhere else or not bother and that’s not good for the labor-hungry European economy.
And they will still end up cleaning your toilet and flipping my burger and deliver my food. I don’t get this obsession with "skilled labor“.
Humans like any other animal have been moving around ever since and only recently we as a species have developed this idea of imaginary borders and sense of entitlement to the place we randomly got thrown into without any doing of our own.
Even ignoring the humanistic aspect of this morally rotten debate, seriously, who’s gonna do all the shitty work that nobody wants to do? I don’t want to be a cleaner or work at McDonald’s in bumfuck nowhere next to a highway or work for a moving company or be a plumber.
It’s not even about money, I will just never want to do it and there’s not enough people in any of these jobs and many more even though we’re in an economic downturn period.
And they will still end up cleaning your toilet and flipping my burger and deliver my food
I’m not talking about those, but the ones coding your web portals and prescribing your medicine. Tight immigration policy can effectively deter these people, which would be a detriment to European economies because of declining birthrates. See: Japan and South Korea. In 2025 Germany needs Syrian doctors more than Syrian doctors need Germany, that’s my point here.
It’s not even about money, I will just never want to do it and there’s not enough people in any of these jobs and many more even though we’re in an economic downturn period.
I totally agree on the moral front, but it is about the money. The reason there aren’t enough people in these jobs is that they don’t pay a living wage, not that they’re inherently icky.
Humans like any other animal have been moving around ever since and only recently we as a species have developed this idea of imaginary borders and sense of entitlement to the place we randomly got thrown into without any doing of our own.
You’ll obviously find the concept of herds and territories also in animals, to be fair.
Also, given that we humans no longer only cater for ourselves and our direct surroundings, but luckily through social security systems also for people we don’t know at all and never will but who are part of our “peer group called ‘nation’”, there has to be a line drawn to specify this group. Especially, since there is a very strict line drawn where our jurisdiction applies. I understand your humanistic and moral thinking, but still see these real obstacles in the way.
I feel you’re responding to a child who has no notion of human behavior or evolution. Read their comment and decided they were too hopelessly ignorant and naive to respond to. You wrote a great response though!
I wish i could get optimistic about this but i’ve seen the EU commission, and Von der Leyen specifically, mess up too many times in the past. They’re shitheads, full of stupidity and incredible lack of actual understanding of what they’re doing. But that’s just a personal opinion.
How is this a good thing for EU citizens? Are there lots of these jobs now in need of workers that is not available? Or will many EU workers loose their jobs as firms shift to cheap immigrant workers?
Are there lots of these jobs now in need of workers
Yes, very much so, practically on every level.
Then it -is- a good thing 😁👌🏻
The economy adapts to the supply of workers, and as the UK found out after brexit, if you restrict the supply of workers the work generally goes away.
They had produce rotting in the fields because they couldn’t find workers and the locals weren’t interested in that kind of work. Raising salaries wasn’t an option because consumers weren’t interested in paying more. Economics is fun, isn’t it?
Archived version: https://archive.ph/yy47W
Thanks.
The president of the European Commission proposes to focus on a hitherto little explored dimension, not least because, by definition, an economic migrant falls outside the concept of refugee and is not entitled to reception.
Those things are pretty much tied because economic migrants are abusing the refugee system to come to Europe. But having legal opportunities and being stricter about returning people back if they reach the shores would probably help the situation
Interesting photo to use for a discussion about skilled workers
Honestly I’m trying to find to find words that won’t break community rules but I’m struggling to find them. There are many places where you’ll find people sharing your point of view, this is not one of them and I’d like to keep it that way.
Did we learn nothing from 2015?
Stop the brain drain from countries that needs their educated people at home.
This is just white savior crap with the added effect of causing developing nations to take longer to develop.
I strongly believe that to improve a country you need educated citizens, we should absolutely help developing nations with offering free/reduced cost education to citizens of developing countries so they get an educated workforce with a strong network of connections that will aid cooperation and development.
Stop being a snowflake, if you’re too cucked to avoid being replaced by a brown person that’s strong beta vibes I‘m sensing and that sounds like a you problem.
Hope I got the language right. In all seriousness though the whole 2015 migration trope was a right wing psy-op and you fell for it, congratulations. I live in Germany and the only thing I learned is that Syrians can cook much better than you whoever you are.
Most developing countries don’t have a brain drain problem but a capital problem. Remittances from people that moved abroad are a strong factor helping with that and are bigger than the official development assistance for example.
That is a good point I had not considered.
If there is not a brain drain issue then I will concede that my point is not valid.
That’s the crux with developing countries. If a citizen can make 20x their salary somewhere else why wouldn’t they?
Should we block people from emigrating? Is limiting their freedom good for us/them?
It’s a tricky question because like you say in the long term their home country would most likely benefit from them staying.
There is a way to deal with it.
Have the country pay for the education abroad, but have the person be required to work 10 years in the country to recieve their diploma.
After that they are welcome to move as they please.
I strongly believe that to improve a country you need educated citizens
True, but you also need cooperative authorities willing to give their educated citizens the leeway to prosper. That’s the real bottleneck here; plenty of developing countries have accessible higher education. If you want the EU to help developing countries develop, you should start from neocolonialism. Many of the regimes holding back developing countries are basically running on foreign dollars and euros.
True, but you also need cooperative authorities willing to give their educated citizens the leeway to prosper.
Education is a precursor to that.
Again, that is already present in plenty of (unsure if most) developing countries, and the ones where it isn’t aren’t common sources of brain drain. There’s a reason the West tends to import Indians and Iranians rather than, say, Congolese; the majority of educated people from any country will stay there, either because they don’t want to leave or because they can’t find an opportunity to do so. This is simply not the bottleneck holding back the Global South; education is one of the few things a developing country can do more of with minimal effort.
As if people can be motivated to come to Europe on a whim and only haven’t come because we only accepted them from a dangerous entrance by sketchy boat.
Even if it works, it’s an expression of values that will corrupt the EU forever. *
* Not because we invite foreigners but because we treat workers as objects.
I don’t remember when or why I tagged you as ‘Fascist sympathiser’ but it certainly appears to be accurate.
What ridiculous rhetoric you’re spouting.
I was banned by a mod for suggesting that human rights and fascism are not mutually exclusive and that fascism shouldn’t be defined by that.
It means that a fascist country can pay lip service to human rights which is dangerous. It also means that in theory, there could be a fascist country that respects human rights fully. That seems to require the disclaimer that there are other reasons why fascism is not good.
Of course it could also be any other comment.
What is fascist about saying that we shouldn’t treat people like expendible slaves?
Or rather, thanks for the feedback. I wasn’t aware that it could be seen as fascist.
Is that what you were saying? Because that’s not how I read or understood it.
I did just wake up… maybe I need another hour or two.
It is.
It is also obviously too early for me to write comments.
As if people can be motivated to come to Europe on a whim and only haven’t come because we only accepted from a dangerous entrance by sketchy boat.
I mean, yes exactly. Why would you think otherwise?
Even of it works, it’s an expression of values that will corrupt the EU forever.
Uh… I’m sorry to tell you but that ship has already sailed. The EU already treats workers as objects.
Why would you think otherwise?
Because of comment’s like this one from von der Leyen. People with brain will see through them and avoid the EU. Allowing entrance doesn’t mean that the skilled people will come.
I’m sorry to tell you but that ship has already sailed.
We can still change the destination.
