<center>I haven’t really researched the (U.S) education system; so my replies are just opinions. I am just operating off street knowledge.</center>
Sorry, I’m not understanding this point. Schools teach with experience, do they not?
No. Schools usually graduates students based on memorization tests (or exams and quizzes).
That is a valid point, but there are various public institutions for children special needs where I live, and from what I hear, they are pretty good, though I have no experience with them. Either way, it’s another thing that can and should be improved.
Public institutions can be good; but they don’t always work for the child.
<center><b>Some institutions can be, or are, bad at handling neurodivergent students.</b></center>
Some institutions can accidentally, or intentionally, mistreat neurodivergent students.
<center>Examples:</center>
Force people with Autism to tolerate their triggers; they may potentially punish autists for shutting down or melting down.
Force people with tourette’s syndrome to suppress their tics.
Some institutions misuse ABA therapy on neurodivergent (mostly autistic) people; ABA is regarded by autism communities (r/autism) as a harmful therapy that could damage the child’s independence, because it teaches the child that their behaviors should be suppressed.</div>
The solution is not to pull your kids from school, it’s to talk to them, teach them how to deal with bullies and also maintain close communication with teachers and other staff so that these situations do not happen, and the provocateurs get properly reprimanded. Anti-bully programmes still have a lot to evolve, but they are way better that 10 or 15 years ago.
This solution is ideal; but it isn’t always possible. Some schools don’t bother to deal with bullying, even with prodding; so the student would have to perform self defense. If self defense does not work, then the student could try to leave the school and go to another one; but the student could be stuck at their school until they graduate.
Bullying can inflict trauma and long-term health problems, specifically in neurodivergents. In cases where the institution has failed to prevent, or reduce, bullying; it’s best to teach the child self-defense (which I believe is OK, considering sexual assault on children) to defend against their bullies; or pull the child out of school to keep them safe; if the child wasn’t protected, they may receive long-lasting trauma.
Bullying is not rare; students with autism are commonly bullied.<sup>[1][2]</sup>
Unless you have some super parents knowledgeable on a vast range of topics, this is simply not true.
Why would this be the case? Could you link me to some sources or explanations?
Ultimately, I don’t think homeschooling is a good idea; school isn’t just a place for learning,
I disagree. Some parents need homeschooling to educate their children in a way that won’t mess up their children.
People with (untreated and) severe ADHD may struggle with school; to the point that they end up dropping out.
People with Autism may have severe autistic traits that impact their ability to learn in a School.
Some schools indoctrinate their beliefs into children; the guardian may disagree with this treatment.
it’s also a place for socialization and a way for children to experience different things from what they are used to in their homes.
School is not the only place where socialization can occur; people hang out with friends at other places:
Homes
Concerts
Vehicles
Restaurants
Parks
Carnivals
Beaches
Business(es)
If school was the only place children could socialize; then how did (poor) children socialize in the past millennia?
Taking [socialization] away from a growing human being can have serious repercussions later down the line.
Yes. However, some children don’t really need much socialization.
Example: Some people with autism are bad with social conversations; some autists quickly tire themselves out through masking.
If schools were mandatory; people will likely just illegally homeschool their children anyway.
What if a financial problem occurs?
Will the child still be able to enroll?
What if the guardian can’t get their child in a school in time?
What if the child does not learn well in a school environment?
Irrelevant sentence, I know, but I just realized that lemmy, unlike reddit, allows for proper HTML in replies; and I love it! Look, I can add a text area!
First of all, thank you for the big and comprehensive reply! It has helped me better understand this topic :)
I should also say I’m not in the US, but rather from Portugal, so I’m leaning heavily on my experience with our system.
Here follows my inline replies. I suppressed parts of some quotes so they wouldn’t be really big.
No. Schools usually graduates students based on memorization tests (or exams and quizzes).
Poorly written exams are indeed memorization tests, but when done correctly, they require the students to understand the subject and have knowledge beyond copy-pasting everything from the text book into their brains, so to speak. But yeah, I see your point; a lot of tests are not that great and end up suffering from this issue. From my experience, that is far more recurrent on lower grades than on, say, 10th to 12th (called “secondary” school here).
Public institutions can be good; but they don’t always work for the child.
(…)
Thank you for bringing this information, which I was not fully aware of! These are all valid reasons to not trust a public service and instead prefer homeschooling their kids. Nevertheless, or even more so, this should be something that governments should strive to improve, with stricter policies for teacher misbehaviour (which is hard, I know) and looser approaches to teaching and taking care of neurodivergent children.
Some schools don’t bother to deal with bullying, even with prodding; so the student would have to perform self defense. If self defense does not work, then the student could try to leave the school and go to another one; but the student could be stuck at their school until they graduate.
Again, I was too idealistic. It is indeed something that can and most definitely should be improved, and if parents aren’t confident in the school, pulling them out can be an option.
Bullying can inflict trauma and long-term health problems, specifically in neurodivergents. In cases where the institution has failed to prevent, or reduce, bullying; it’s best to teach the child self-defense (which I believe is OK, considering sexual assault on children) to defend against their bullies; or pull the child out of school to keep them safe; if the child wasn’t protected, they may receive long-lasting trauma.
I agree. If the situation can’t really be handled with the school, then pulling the kid out should be an option instead of leaving them suffering the consequences.
Why would this be the case? Could you link me to some sources or explanations?
Have to confess I don’t have any sources, but my rationale is that kids should be exposed to a wide variety of subjects while studying, so that they can have a better chance to find something they truly connect with. If they go to a school, that’s pretty much guaranteed (they surely don’t cover all the topics there are, for obvious reasons, but they do cover an important range, I’d say), however, if they are homeschooled, they can’t really get taught all of those subjects unless their parent(s) don’t work and have the time to research them and devise a programme.
Do you think this is easier than what I’m painting it as? Curious to read your thoughts on it too.
I disagree. Some parents need homeschooling to educate their children in a way that won’t mess up their children.
(…)
I see. That is, in fact, a point I did not consider, but you’re very much right.
Some schools indoctrinate their beliefs into children; the guardian may disagree with this treatment.
That can be an issue with private schools; I wouldn’t say the same regarding public ones. But yes, it is a valid concern.
School is not the only place where socialization can occur; people hang out with friends at other places:
(…)
It is most definitely not the only place where socialization can occur, however, I’d argue it is the main place where it does occur. Most kids spend most of their day at school, specially between grades 5 and 9 (at least here), and thus is a major point of contact with other kids. All the other places you listed are perfectly valid, but if a child is homeschooled, then it sort of “loses” that big chunk of socialization opportunities.
If school was the only place children could socialize; then how did (poor) children socialize in the past millennia?
Valid point, but one has to consider the immense difference of how communities worked in the past. Cities were smaller, the population was way more spread through small, rural towns and villages and, in general, communities were much closer than they are today. Additionally, pretty much no-one went to school (we’re talking about a very wide period of time, so I’m heavily generalizing), so there were more kids to socialize with outside of it. Nowadays, communities are often centred around schools and thus is can be harder to socialize if you’re not part of one.
However, some children don’t really need much socialization.
Example: Some people with autism are bad with social conversations; some autists quickly tire themselves out through masking.
Another valid point, thank you.
What if a financial problem occurs?
The point of public schools is that they are paid by the government. My parents spent nothing on my education since 5th grade, except basic materials (even text books are now offered by the government, in a return programme). While I was in private school, I was in a mixed music conservatory regime, which was subsidized by the government, and public school was completely free for everyone.
What if the guardian can’t get their child in a school in time?
I’ve had multiple classmates join the class mid-term. That’s generally not an issue, as far as I’m aware.
What if the child does not learn well in a school environment?
Perfectly valid point. I’d say that if there are no specialized places you trust your child with, then yes, homeschooling can be an option.
I really appreciate the effort you put into your reply and it has helped me see things a bit differently, consider other points of view and cases which I was not aware of/familiar with.
With this new information, I can no longer say homeschooling is a bad idea - it can be a good idea! However, generally speaking, public schools are a good “bet” and they should definitely get more attention and care from governments and responsible entities, as they could be so much better.
Irrelevant sentence, I know, but I just realized that lemmy, unlike reddit, allows for proper HTML in replies; and I love it! Look, I can add a text area!
:O I was unaware of this too! Thanks for sharing hehe
<details>
<summary>You can make collapsibles with this!</summary>
<p>:D</p>
<details>
<summary>Markdown should support this</summary>
<p>Maybe there’s even a flavour that has it already?</p>
</details
</details>
<center>I haven’t really researched the (U.S) education system; so my replies are just opinions. I am just operating off street knowledge.</center>
No. Schools usually graduates students based on memorization tests (or exams and quizzes).
Public institutions can be good; but they don’t always work for the child.
<center><b>Some institutions can be, or are, bad at handling neurodivergent students.</b></center>
Some institutions can accidentally, or intentionally, mistreat neurodivergent students. <center>Examples:</center>
Some institutions misuse ABA therapy on neurodivergent (mostly autistic) people; ABA is regarded by autism communities (r/autism) as a harmful therapy that could damage the child’s independence, because it teaches the child that their behaviors should be suppressed.</div>
This solution is ideal; but it isn’t always possible. Some schools don’t bother to deal with bullying, even with prodding; so the student would have to perform self defense. If self defense does not work, then the student could try to leave the school and go to another one; but the student could be stuck at their school until they graduate.
Bullying can inflict trauma and long-term health problems, specifically in neurodivergents. In cases where the institution has failed to prevent, or reduce, bullying; it’s best to teach the child self-defense (which I believe is OK, considering sexual assault on children) to defend against their bullies; or pull the child out of school to keep them safe; if the child wasn’t protected, they may receive long-lasting trauma.
Bullying is not rare; students with autism are commonly bullied.<sup>[1][2]</sup>
Why would this be the case? Could you link me to some sources or explanations?
I disagree. Some parents need homeschooling to educate their children in a way that won’t mess up their children.
People with (untreated and) severe ADHD may struggle with school; to the point that they end up dropping out.
People with Autism may have severe autistic traits that impact their ability to learn in a School.
Some schools indoctrinate their beliefs into children; the guardian may disagree with this treatment.
School is not the only place where socialization can occur; people hang out with friends at other places:
If school was the only place children could socialize; then how did (poor) children socialize in the past millennia?
Yes. However, some children don’t really need much socialization.
Example: Some people with autism are bad with social conversations; some autists quickly tire themselves out through masking.
If schools were mandatory; people will likely just illegally homeschool their children anyway.
Irrelevant sentence, I know, but I just realized that lemmy, unlike reddit, allows for proper HTML in replies; and I love it! Look, I can add a text area!
<textarea>Put some text in here!</textarea>
First of all, thank you for the big and comprehensive reply! It has helped me better understand this topic :)
I should also say I’m not in the US, but rather from Portugal, so I’m leaning heavily on my experience with our system.
Here follows my inline replies. I suppressed parts of some quotes so they wouldn’t be really big.
Poorly written exams are indeed memorization tests, but when done correctly, they require the students to understand the subject and have knowledge beyond copy-pasting everything from the text book into their brains, so to speak. But yeah, I see your point; a lot of tests are not that great and end up suffering from this issue. From my experience, that is far more recurrent on lower grades than on, say, 10th to 12th (called “secondary” school here).
Thank you for bringing this information, which I was not fully aware of! These are all valid reasons to not trust a public service and instead prefer homeschooling their kids. Nevertheless, or even more so, this should be something that governments should strive to improve, with stricter policies for teacher misbehaviour (which is hard, I know) and looser approaches to teaching and taking care of neurodivergent children.
Again, I was too idealistic. It is indeed something that can and most definitely should be improved, and if parents aren’t confident in the school, pulling them out can be an option.
I agree. If the situation can’t really be handled with the school, then pulling the kid out should be an option instead of leaving them suffering the consequences.
Have to confess I don’t have any sources, but my rationale is that kids should be exposed to a wide variety of subjects while studying, so that they can have a better chance to find something they truly connect with. If they go to a school, that’s pretty much guaranteed (they surely don’t cover all the topics there are, for obvious reasons, but they do cover an important range, I’d say), however, if they are homeschooled, they can’t really get taught all of those subjects unless their parent(s) don’t work and have the time to research them and devise a programme.
Do you think this is easier than what I’m painting it as? Curious to read your thoughts on it too.
I see. That is, in fact, a point I did not consider, but you’re very much right.
That can be an issue with private schools; I wouldn’t say the same regarding public ones. But yes, it is a valid concern.
It is most definitely not the only place where socialization can occur, however, I’d argue it is the main place where it does occur. Most kids spend most of their day at school, specially between grades 5 and 9 (at least here), and thus is a major point of contact with other kids. All the other places you listed are perfectly valid, but if a child is homeschooled, then it sort of “loses” that big chunk of socialization opportunities.
Valid point, but one has to consider the immense difference of how communities worked in the past. Cities were smaller, the population was way more spread through small, rural towns and villages and, in general, communities were much closer than they are today. Additionally, pretty much no-one went to school (we’re talking about a very wide period of time, so I’m heavily generalizing), so there were more kids to socialize with outside of it. Nowadays, communities are often centred around schools and thus is can be harder to socialize if you’re not part of one.
Another valid point, thank you.
The point of public schools is that they are paid by the government. My parents spent nothing on my education since 5th grade, except basic materials (even text books are now offered by the government, in a return programme). While I was in private school, I was in a mixed music conservatory regime, which was subsidized by the government, and public school was completely free for everyone.
I’ve had multiple classmates join the class mid-term. That’s generally not an issue, as far as I’m aware.
Perfectly valid point. I’d say that if there are no specialized places you trust your child with, then yes, homeschooling can be an option.
I really appreciate the effort you put into your reply and it has helped me see things a bit differently, consider other points of view and cases which I was not aware of/familiar with.
With this new information, I can no longer say homeschooling is a bad idea - it can be a good idea! However, generally speaking, public schools are a good “bet” and they should definitely get more attention and care from governments and responsible entities, as they could be so much better.
:O I was unaware of this too! Thanks for sharing hehe
<details> <summary>You can make collapsibles with this!</summary> <p>:D</p> <details> <summary>Markdown should support this</summary> <p>Maybe there’s even a flavour that has it already?</p> </details </details>
I can’t really make a good reply right now; but I may in the future. I appreciate your perspective.
I didn’t even think of collapsed text!
Glad to have had this discussion with you! Will keep an eye out for a future reply ;)