More a key role in tourism and managing deforestation. Natural resource management agencies take care of the difference at the end of the season to prevent starvation regardless of hunter involvement.
We almost hunted them to extinction and our continuous destruction of their habitat and eradication of their predators means they can basically never reach equalibrium again, so it’s just a constant risk of over consumption, over population and starvation.
Hunters mostly make a lot of money for the area selling the license, both through fees and the economic activity of the hunters.
Actually letting things get better would involve reintroducing a non-trivial number of wolves, which is largely opposed by farmers and some hunting groups since it would reduce the population of deer.
So they do currently play a key role, but largely because it’s something they want and it’s generally pretty profitable. It’s just treading water though, since no one with power is particularly interested in fixing it.
Michigan, Ohio, Wisconsin, Minnesota, and every other state I can think of to check with a deer population?
I’m not sure what you mean by selling a felling permit. You charge a fee for a deer hunting license.
Trophy hunting is quite different and also usually illegal.
What are you talking about? Hunting deer for the antlers is about half the reason people do it. If it’s illegal it’s probably the most regulated and licensed crime I’ve encountered.
Sometimes some populations are controlled. Like moose for instance. The populations are much smaller, and thus need more careful managing, so you can’t just kill any moose you like. A hunting club gets a certain amount of felling permits, and you can’t hunt without belonging to a hunting club, and you can’t join a hunting club unless you live in the municipality of the hunting club.
Hunting deer for the antlers is about half the reason people do it.
I take it you don’t live in the US, since a lot of what you’re saying is just grossly wrong if you do.
Since the conversation was about the US I’m not sure I understand bringing another countries laws into it.
I certainly don’t understand your response to the antler comment. I don’t know a single hunter who doesn’t have at least the antlers of their best buck mounted on the wall, and in many cases an ominous number of heads.
I don’t know a single hunter who doesn’t have at least the antlers of their best buck
Oh so most the hunters you know are so shit they’ve only killed two deer ever, since you said it was half the reason?
I don’t know a single hunter with deer antlers on the wall. Maybe in the 70’s akd 80’s if you happened to fell a particularly old buck with like 10 spikes or more.
But anyone under the age of 60 hasn’t had antlers hanging on their walls since the 90’s. Last time I saw some coincided with heavily nicotine yellow walls from indoor smoking.
Hunting roe deer is like shooting vermin, basically. While selling deer tags (apparently that’s what you call felling permits) is apparently possible and hunting licences don’t have tests and you can buy them as non-residents (jesus the US really is a capitalist shithole), who the fuck would want to hunt roe deer? I can see some large red deer being attractive for hunters, but that’s veering into trophy hunting. And since tje conversation is about population control and not trophy hunting, I don’t know why you’re bringing it up. ^(/s)
… You’re the one who brought up trophy hunting. It’s fine if you want to talk about someplace else, but usually people have some form of segue to let people know they’re shifting the topic. Otherwise you end up confusing people by talking about European hunting laws when they’re talking about US hunting laws.
Did you think the US had the same hunting laws as wherever you happen to be?
Licenses being sold to non-residents isn’t really the problematic part. There’s a quota and if it doesn’t get claimed the Forest service for whatever jurisdiction takes care of the balance.
We don’t have roe deer here. We have whitetail, which looks to be somewhere around half the size of a red deer, but there’s a lot of overlap in the weight range.
People put the trophy’s on the wall, and eat the meat.
If you’re interested in hunting it’s a pretty cost effective way to get meat.
Because you clearly don’t understand that that’s what you were talking about…?
Roe deer need management. A lot of it. And no-one is planting their antlers.
We don’t have roe deer here
Well sika is about the same size.
You’re imagining that only the handsome large ones get shot. When most of deer management is boring ass sitting and shooting roughly dog-sized herbivores.
And
There’s a quota and if it doesn’t get claimed
Not getting fulfilled isn’t the problem. It’s fulfilling it too well if there’s profit to be made so easily. God what a capitalist shithole.
People put the trophy’s on the wall,
I could bet my left testicle you don’t actually know any hunters irl. Strongly seems that way.
Or was it that all the “hunters” you know have only shot two deer in their entire lives?
Because you clearly don’t understand that that’s what you were talking about…?
What does that even mean? I made a comment about how recreational hunting isn’t critical to land management and you replied with questions about where tourists are allowed to hunt and trophy hunting being illegal.
We don’t have sika either. Most of the country has whitetail deer, elk, caribou or moose. For the most part you’re only allowed to hunt whitetail deer.
You’re imagining that only the handsome large ones get shot. When most of deer management is boring ass sitting and shooting roughly dog-sized herbivores.
Again, you’re projecting your knowledge of hunting where you are to how hunting is here. Hunters are restricted to one or two deer. Of course they’re not all perfect prizes but people hold out hoping to get a better one. There are also rules restricting which deer you can kill at different times centered around antler size. Depends on the area.
Based on the size of the deer you seem to have, our smallest deer are quite a bit larger.
Not getting fulfilled isn’t the problem. It’s fulfilling it too well if there’s profit to be made so easily. God what a capitalist shithole.
I’m not sure where you’re getting that the quota not being filled isn’t a problem. It leads to animal starvation because of the issues I listed in my first comment. Killing too many deer is poaching, and is preposterously illegal. The licenses aren’t sold by private companies, they’re sold by the government to regulate the population and it’s spent on the natural resource management. Different areas needing the quota to be caught up by government officials is a pretty common occurrence. The deer population in Detroit for example is rarely hunted, since find a place to legally do so is tricky, meaning the city government gets the state government to issue a permit for police sharpshooters to do it. Otherwise you end up with deer on the freeway.
Whatever country you’re in seems to regulate hunting based on “hunting clubs” and being a member in one, which is more privatized than our system. It also seems to involve a lot more “boring ass sitting and shooting roughly dog-sized herbivores” which sounds depressing and borderline sociopathic. Why do people join clubs to mass kill deer if they don’t get a trophy or meat? Just a love of killing?
We are a capitalist hellscape, but our hunting system seems pretty well adjusted compared to what you’re describing.
You’d be correct that I don’t know any European hunters. You’d be wrong that I don’t know any American hunters though.
Given that where you are hunting seems to mostly be pest management, I can see how you’d be confused that it’s not the same everywhere.
We have people who kill pest animals, but they’re not typically classified as hunters, and if they’re culling deer they’re probably employed by the government and the meat is legally required to go to charity if it’s fit to eat. Usually it’s coyotes though.
More a key role in tourism and managing deforestation. Natural resource management agencies take care of the difference at the end of the season to prevent starvation regardless of hunter involvement.
We almost hunted them to extinction and our continuous destruction of their habitat and eradication of their predators means they can basically never reach equalibrium again, so it’s just a constant risk of over consumption, over population and starvation.
Hunters mostly make a lot of money for the area selling the license, both through fees and the economic activity of the hunters.
Actually letting things get better would involve reintroducing a non-trivial number of wolves, which is largely opposed by farmers and some hunting groups since it would reduce the population of deer.
So they do currently play a key role, but largely because it’s something they want and it’s generally pretty profitable. It’s just treading water though, since no one with power is particularly interested in fixing it.
Where exactly is it legal to just sell felling permits to tourists, instead of requiring all hunters to actually have a local licence?
For deer.
Trophy hunting is quite different and also usually illegal.
Michigan, Ohio, Wisconsin, Minnesota, and every other state I can think of to check with a deer population?
I’m not sure what you mean by selling a felling permit. You charge a fee for a deer hunting license.
What are you talking about? Hunting deer for the antlers is about half the reason people do it. If it’s illegal it’s probably the most regulated and licensed crime I’ve encountered.
Sometimes some populations are controlled. Like moose for instance. The populations are much smaller, and thus need more careful managing, so you can’t just kill any moose you like. A hunting club gets a certain amount of felling permits, and you can’t hunt without belonging to a hunting club, and you can’t join a hunting club unless you live in the municipality of the hunting club.
I take it you don’t live in the US, since a lot of what you’re saying is just grossly wrong if you do.
Since the conversation was about the US I’m not sure I understand bringing another countries laws into it.
I certainly don’t understand your response to the antler comment. I don’t know a single hunter who doesn’t have at least the antlers of their best buck mounted on the wall, and in many cases an ominous number of heads.
Oh so most the hunters you know are so shit they’ve only killed two deer ever, since you said it was half the reason?
I don’t know a single hunter with deer antlers on the wall. Maybe in the 70’s akd 80’s if you happened to fell a particularly old buck with like 10 spikes or more.
But anyone under the age of 60 hasn’t had antlers hanging on their walls since the 90’s. Last time I saw some coincided with heavily nicotine yellow walls from indoor smoking.
Hunting roe deer is like shooting vermin, basically. While selling deer tags (apparently that’s what you call felling permits) is apparently possible and hunting licences don’t have tests and you can buy them as non-residents (jesus the US really is a capitalist shithole), who the fuck would want to hunt roe deer? I can see some large red deer being attractive for hunters, but that’s veering into trophy hunting. And since tje conversation is about population control and not trophy hunting, I don’t know why you’re bringing it up. ^(/s)
… You’re the one who brought up trophy hunting. It’s fine if you want to talk about someplace else, but usually people have some form of segue to let people know they’re shifting the topic. Otherwise you end up confusing people by talking about European hunting laws when they’re talking about US hunting laws.
Did you think the US had the same hunting laws as wherever you happen to be?
Licenses being sold to non-residents isn’t really the problematic part. There’s a quota and if it doesn’t get claimed the Forest service for whatever jurisdiction takes care of the balance.
We don’t have roe deer here. We have whitetail, which looks to be somewhere around half the size of a red deer, but there’s a lot of overlap in the weight range.
People put the trophy’s on the wall, and eat the meat.
If you’re interested in hunting it’s a pretty cost effective way to get meat.
Because you clearly don’t understand that that’s what you were talking about…?
Roe deer need management. A lot of it. And no-one is planting their antlers.
Well sika is about the same size.
You’re imagining that only the handsome large ones get shot. When most of deer management is boring ass sitting and shooting roughly dog-sized herbivores.
And
Not getting fulfilled isn’t the problem. It’s fulfilling it too well if there’s profit to be made so easily. God what a capitalist shithole.
I could bet my left testicle you don’t actually know any hunters irl. Strongly seems that way.
Or was it that all the “hunters” you know have only shot two deer in their entire lives?
Because that’s ridiculous. :D
Why are you being needlessly aggressive?
What does that even mean? I made a comment about how recreational hunting isn’t critical to land management and you replied with questions about where tourists are allowed to hunt and trophy hunting being illegal.
We don’t have sika either. Most of the country has whitetail deer, elk, caribou or moose. For the most part you’re only allowed to hunt whitetail deer.
Again, you’re projecting your knowledge of hunting where you are to how hunting is here. Hunters are restricted to one or two deer. Of course they’re not all perfect prizes but people hold out hoping to get a better one. There are also rules restricting which deer you can kill at different times centered around antler size. Depends on the area.
Based on the size of the deer you seem to have, our smallest deer are quite a bit larger.
I’m not sure where you’re getting that the quota not being filled isn’t a problem. It leads to animal starvation because of the issues I listed in my first comment. Killing too many deer is poaching, and is preposterously illegal. The licenses aren’t sold by private companies, they’re sold by the government to regulate the population and it’s spent on the natural resource management. Different areas needing the quota to be caught up by government officials is a pretty common occurrence. The deer population in Detroit for example is rarely hunted, since find a place to legally do so is tricky, meaning the city government gets the state government to issue a permit for police sharpshooters to do it. Otherwise you end up with deer on the freeway.
Whatever country you’re in seems to regulate hunting based on “hunting clubs” and being a member in one, which is more privatized than our system. It also seems to involve a lot more “boring ass sitting and shooting roughly dog-sized herbivores” which sounds depressing and borderline sociopathic. Why do people join clubs to mass kill deer if they don’t get a trophy or meat? Just a love of killing?
We are a capitalist hellscape, but our hunting system seems pretty well adjusted compared to what you’re describing.
You’d be correct that I don’t know any European hunters. You’d be wrong that I don’t know any American hunters though.
Given that where you are hunting seems to mostly be pest management, I can see how you’d be confused that it’s not the same everywhere.
We have people who kill pest animals, but they’re not typically classified as hunters, and if they’re culling deer they’re probably employed by the government and the meat is legally required to go to charity if it’s fit to eat. Usually it’s coyotes though.