She’s still a little kid. They made her suffer.
I think that’s needlessly infantilizing her. She’s 22. She’s not a “little kid”. I think she’s old enough for her opinions to carry weight, so how is she a “little kid”?
The youth should have their opinions respected too.
I’m not going to take political opinions from a 3 year old, which is about what I’m thinking when someone says “little kid”. Teenagers, like she was when she got famous, can have enough context about the world that their opinions, particularly about things like sustainability, equality, etc, are valid.
I mean, I feel you, I remember aggroing over verbiage like that when I was younger, but as I am now approaching my upper 30s, I find myself referring to basically 25 yos and under as ‘kids’, its not necesarrily always meant in a demeaning, infantilzing way, can be meant more in the sense of…
… ‘has their whole life ahead of them still, it shouldn’t be marred or maimed or traumatized this early’ /
/ ‘they are adults technically yes, but they have far less experience than most other adults’ /
/ ‘they are too young to be beset by such cruelty and hardship, there should be other adults being better adults such that these awful things do not happen.’
I guess what I am trying to say is it becomes a kind of genuine, broad protective connotation, not trying to be belittling, moreso a lament that the world has failed.
Maybe call it a bungled attempt at intergenerational solidarity.
The thing is, she wasn’t just called a kid, but a “little kid”.
Sure, I’d call early 20s kids too. Hell, I’m a kid, I’m only turning 30 this year. But I wouldn’t call someone a “little kid” once they hit their teenage years. The “little” is what makes the difference in tone. Could’ve said “she’s just a kid” and it would’ve been a believable attempt at intergenerational solidarity.
I absolutely think of 22 as a little kid, but I was there when the last Woolly Mammoth died, so it’s somewhat relative.
Idk, to me “little kid” means “not in school yet”. It’s the “little” that makes the difference, compared to just calling someone a kid or kiddo.
I’m with you. Little kids are like infants and toddlers and shit. Not a 22 year old adult woman.
While I wouldn’t wish this on anyone, it’s amazing how self-destructive this is. Greta is an internationally famous activist. Flagrantly violating and abusing a person with world renown - along with dozens of other activists - is a radically stupid way to hasten international isolation.
It is well known by most in Israel that the country simply cannot function in isolation. It will lead to collapse. In this, they are giving the flotilla far more power to eventually overthrow the ruling regime.
They just assume Uncle Sam will bail them out, no matter what. They are not wrong, much to the frustration of a large portion of the US population.
The Americans are not the reliable partner they used to be.
Reliable enough, unfortunately.
Thats on borrowed time. Money to isreal is one of the only issues left and right agree with. Someone is going to take advantage of that eventually and isrela is gonna get disconnected from the US teet
I know you are probably American, so am I.
We need to stop calling the Democrats the “left” party. They’re not.
They have done worse to other protestors and faced zero accountability:
Swedish gov should cut all ties for this terrorist state torturing their citizens.
Throw another war crime on the fire…
Can we just jump to tribunals yet?
Why are you still posting? Literally everyone is tired of you.
Everyone? LOL.
Everyone.
3 downvotes with +108 says otherwise.
I decided to demoderate Jordan in the communities we are in together, as I just am tired of all the drama. I hope he understands that.
Again, not “everyone”. More upvotes since then.
Your psychology is remarkable. It’s a shame you aren’t a top mod anymore.
For those of you doubting the claims for lack of evidence, stating that you’ll “wait for the facts” or evidence before allowing yourslf to be outraged—
Where is your outrage for the countless other people who were there who personally testified to being beaten, abused, and paraded around like trophies?
There are already multiple interviews with Chris Smalls, a black American labor organizer, who directly confirmed that he had been beaten, choked, packed like a sardine into a small cell, sleep deprived, strip searched, and completely brutalized by the Israeli navy and prison system.
Ask yourself—why does this need to have happened to the appropriately aged, white, European female on a 4k, live streamed or recorded feed with corroborating testimony by the Israelis and the national newspapers of the country of origin of the supposed victim—why is that the bar you’ve set for credulity?
What does that say about you or your reaction to the situation?
Wake. Up.
Fuck the details, fuck the squabbling over what constitutes “roughness” versus physical assault. Fuck the inclination to want to hear “the other side” of the story. Things are going horribly wrong in Israel/Palestine—in a place that we’ve all been told over and over is supposed to be demonstrably above reproach. If even half these claims are true—if even a single one of them is true—what GOOD is it preserving the supposed beacon of democracy in the middle east when they treat foreigners this way?
Even if you think these activists are mentally unwell, or menaces, or being performative, or just doing this for “selfies”—so what? We all know these activists are obviously not terrorists and at least some of them genuinely believe what they are doing. None of this justifies their treatment. Nothing justifies the richest and proudest countries on earth—however much you might agree with that claim—what GOOD is that if our prisons condemn people to absolute squalor and abandonment to the whims of their guards?
HOW is this any different from the indignity camps? These peoples possessions were seized as trophies , their clothes taken, their bodies crammed together like chattel. Do there need to be ovens for there to be discernable lines? Must you feel the radiant heat on your own brows before you’ll indulge the sensation that something isn’t right here?
Wake. Up.
Idk why this is treated as though its so inconceivable. Greta is hated by conservatives around the world. Most countries have already condemned Israel. They only care what Trump’s regime thinks. Their prisons are notorious centers of physical emotional and sexual torture. This is relatively mild treatment in comparison to many of the accounts I’ve read. It’s still awful, but if they were going to invent a story about how vile the Israeli prison guards were, this wouldnt be noteworthy in any way. Barely even scratches the surface of the things that happen in those prisons.
Breaking: terrorists behave like terrorists
Israel is a fucking terrorist country. IDF is a new SS. They are new Nazi.
“Never again” meant “Never again to us” for the ZioNazis.
They will never live this down either. Netanyahu’s government has destroyed Israeli reputation for decades to come.
lol hard doubt
edit:
to all those who can’t employ critical thinking, representants for the swedish ministry of foreign affairs met Greta Thunberg on Saturday and received no reports of violence. She says there has been too little to eat and drink, she suspects there’s bed bugs and she stated that she had to lay on hard surfaces. Nothing about what this article states, so unless it happened right after the embassy left, this is bull and only meant ragebait.edit2: I would advice everyone to apply critical thinking when reading this article. It is framed in such a way as to invoke rage in readers and is probably not true.
Swedish representants for the foreign ministry has met with Greta which stated that there was lack of food and water and that they have to lay on hard surfaces in addition to receiving harsh treatment. No mentions of violence.Now harsh treatment could cover a lot, but the fact that she hasn’t mentioned that they were inflicted violence is a pretty strong indicator that this is not true.
In addition, swedish media hasn’t covered this story which I have no doubt they would pick up on pretty fast since the flotilla and the genocide is well covered in media. This would be headlines to say the least.There are mentions of pictures, and she herself was aware such pictures may exist and asked whether they had been released. So, no, you’re misled. Forcing detainees through beatings and physical force into interacting with the Israeli flag is a common humiliation practice by Israelis if you know anything about them. It’s pretty much standard practice. They wouldn’t think twice about doing it to their newest victim regardless of who “she thinks she is”.
She’s Greta. She would show her bruises to make the case against Israel. She’d never be silent if it was as bad as the article claims.
Have you considered that maybe she’s very traumatised both physically and mentally at the moment and is recovering first before she steps out into the public eye again?
Sure, but she provided enough testimony for this niche news website to publish this story? Occam’s Razor holds for now.
Where in the article does it say she gave testimony herself? Also it isn’t that much of a niche news site, it’s one of the biggest left wing news outlets in the UK, probably the second biggest after Novara
If she didn’t give testimony, who did? Why do you insist the article is credible?
I’m not a chatbot, you can read the article yourself and find out these things. I haven’t insisted the article is credible. Go back and read what I wrote and you’ll see that
Or unless Israel had threatened her that there would be repercussions for telling the truth.
In the scopes of “you’re allowed to tell about lack of food, water, bed bugs, harsh treatment and laying on the floor, but nothing about kissing the flag because then!” I hear you mate but that’s unreasonable. Read this critically and you will see the ragebait and narrative it tries to promote. Just such things as
They dragged little Greta (Thunberg) by her hair in front of our eyes, beat her, and forced her to kiss the Israeli flag. They did everything imaginable to her as a warning to others. She’s still a little kid. They made her suffer
That’s testimony from another activist. Seems to have been corroborated by Swedish officials and others in a Guardian article
“Another detainee reportedly told another embassy that they had seen her [Thunberg] being forced to hold flags while pictures were taken. She wondered whether images of her had been distributed,” the Swedish ministry’s official added.
The allegation was corroborated by at least two other members of the flotilla who had been detained by Israeli forces and released on Saturday.
“They dragged little Greta [Thunberg] by her hair before our eyes, beat her, and forced her to kiss the Israeli flag. They did everything imaginable to her, as a warning to others,” the Turkish activist ErsinÇelik, a participant in the Sumud flotilla, told Anadolu news agency.
Lorenzo D’Agostino, a journalist and another flotilla participant, said after returning to Istanbul that Thunberg was “wrapped in the Israeli flag and paraded like a trophy” – a scene described with disbelief and anger by those who witnessed it.
stop just commenting here on lemmy. Get your social media accounts back. Add each other. Post this stuff everywhere. Take back all these spaces. It’s like 15 minutes of work to actually accomplish something instead of just being mad. If you’re willing to protest but can’t be bothered to create a login then there’s something wrong. Posting content is a form or protesting in today’s world.
The platforms you have in mind are not neutral spaces that we could “take back”. The architecture of these networks actively works against us. They are designed to promote right-wing liberal propaganda, at the very least. We can’t win there. It’s a fight against windmills. It’s better to encourage the people around you to switch to the Fediverse.
How? You’re wrong entirely. It’s a numbers game. Always has been. Their algorithm only tries to suppress it. It can’t stop it. Right now the architecture works in our favor it just takes numbers. Which is why they invested so much in making leftist retreat and delete their accounts. It’s why you said what you just said. They don’t want you showing up with numbers like we use to. This is a game of repetition. People are influenced and change opinion only when they are faced with an overwhelming number of that one opinion every day. So they convinced us to remove ourselves and not fight back.
A lot of assumptions going on here
Are they wrong? Want to look at the general comment section of any post online outside of lemmy?
Once again another assumption, I was saying they’re wrong in assuming no one here is posting this to other places, you don’t know what we’re doing, they just went on the attack from the get go and that’s an immediate way to alienate instead of cooperate.
I get you’re mad, the situation is atrocious, you cannot control it, you can control how you respond to it.
Wow she had it coming
Yeah how dare she bring food, water and medical supplies to an ongoing famine in a city that has been continuously bombarded with missiles for multiple years straight! Shows her for trying to do some good in this world!
If you are being stupid then ya, she knows she will get arrested. She is a rich white girl that’s why why is doing shit like this otherwise she would have been shot long ago.
Is it possible that greta herself was provocing the israelis? She doesnt seem to be the type to sit silent. And she probably feels like they cant do anything to her, because of her fame.
You are like those wife beaters defenders. She provoked her husband so her husband has to abuse her
Is this one of those “well she was wearing a skirt though” arguments? Victim blaming is rarely done in good faith.
She is not a victim, she is an activist with a strategy here.
Still the same argument and mindset: “well if she did not want to entice men why did she wear a skirt”
This was abused so she is a victim. Being an activist doesn’t change that
NOBODY should EVER be imprisoned, starved, and forced to kiss things. Hope you can sit silent if that happens to you. Absolute useless person blaming the victim.
The victim plays a part in how they are treated. You can compare with walking up to an American police officer and acting all cocky. These people hate when they are not respected. If Greta was not famous, this behavior would actually be quite dangerous and she could get killed.
So speculation, victim blaming and general lack of humanity. Yours is an opinion i should listen to and live by…
So in your opinion if a prison guard beat up and maybe even killed an intimate that would totally be justified as long as the inmate was shouting verbal abuse at them beforehand? What kind of fucked up logic is that? If a prison guard can’t take verbal abuse they’re in the wrong job.
Physically attacking someone simply because they’re shouting abuse at you is never a measured response and prison guards especially should be held to a higher standard than that.
It doesn’t matter if “these people hate when they are not respected”, neither police officers nor prison guards can hit people whenever they feel like it.
Of course and I agree with how it should be.
However, in the real world, that is often how it is. I dont support that behavior but I also dont think its reasonable to ignore reality completely and act surprised when the obvious happens.
This is strategy on her part, thats all it is, and you guys are thinking she is victim of abuse.
Imagine if somebody would kick your ass because you write stupid opinions online and then some asshole would say you are responsible for your ass whoopping.
I think the example with the police officer made a lot more sense, since one side being an authority is the point here.
What makes you say Greta was cocky? She deserves to be tortured for sailing on her own terms doing her own thing? You’re acting very cocky and I don’t appreciate your lack of respect for basic human rights.
Doing her own thing? You know she is a famous activist right? She went on that boat knowing what would happen of course. This media attention is also what she wanted to happen.
This is classic victim blaming. “You knew you would get attacked, so it’s your fault, not the attacker’s fault.”
Her goal is to get food to starving people. Media attention furthers that goal, even if they don’t succeed directly in delivering food.
I agree with that, she is trying to do good here. I dont think im victim blaming since I dont see an activist provocing Israeli soldiers as being a victim. She is trying to achieve her goals.
Nobody likes being disrespected, who cares if you’re an “American police officer”. They are not special.
So you’re saying nobody can disrespect an American police officer or have their own opinion? If an American police officer gets their feelings hurt, you’re saying it’s okay to imprison and torture anyone who disrespects them? Hope you never disagree with a police officer and are imprisoned and tortured.
Honestly, your opinions are useless drivel. You aren’t famous anyway. What makes you think your opinions aren’t going to get you killed?
Of course im not saying its ok, but clearly its asking for problems if you do that. In this case, greta was asking for trouble because its her strategy to win minds and hearts by getting publicity like this. She knew you guys wouldnt ask what she was doing and you would only focus on the Israeli response to what she was doing. :)
Anyway, I guess you dont see any strategy here and just a innocent women being abused… :)
This type of conceded, complaisant attitude is why everything is as bad as it is. How about instead of being a keyboard warrior you make yourself useful? Maybe it’s people like you who don’t deserve this privilege of victim blaming for staying away from anything scary or worth fighting for. The fact you put a smiley face after the phrase “innocent woman being abused” would make anyone who is not a psychopath sick.
The smiley was because you guys dont seem to realize all of this is her strategy, so its funny how you all act like an innocent women is being abused, when that is not what is happening here.
Fuck you are sick.
It does not matter if she goated them or not. There is no situation where the things they are doing are justified.
There is nothing she could have done that would require them to act like they did.
Give me one example what she could have done where beating her up and forcing her to kiss a flag would apropiate responce.
Of course they were expecting problems, as they tried to get to Gaza before, so they knew that they could expect Israeli interference. But the way the Israeli authorities are dealing with this is out of proportion. Like Chaotic Altruist was saying, trying to do a morally right thing and sail to Gaza to bring survival goods, should never result in violence and humiliation.
Of course it shouldnt, but we live in a world where it absolute will give problems. We didnt wake up yesterday and now we are completely surprised the world is what it is today.
Tell me again how you’re a middle aged white man
Kiss the flag.
😘🇮🇱
This whole flotilla thing was a propganda mission (everyone knew the boats were never going to get to Gaza), those participating are going to say anything to promote anti-Israel propaganda.
Geta Thunberg is 22 years old, she’s an adult. The “little Greta” bullshit is really grating. To be clear no one (whether an adult or a child) should be treated in the ways that have been alleged (which is how Hamas treats their prisoners, where’s the outrage over that?) but come on people, stop playing it up like Thunberg is a child. It just makes it obvious that she’s being used as a prop in their propaganda.
If it was a propaganda mission why did Israel not just let them arrive and give aid to Gaza? The outrage of Hamas treating its prisoners how Israel treats their? It has been everywhere, so much so Israeli bootlickers like you use it as an excuse for genocide.
Because it’s a warzone and not a safe place for civilians. They’ve made efforts to get civilians out of areas where there’s heavy fighting to parts of Gaza where food and aid can be distributed. There’s plenty of food and aid, the problem isn’t lack of aid, the problem is distributing it in the middle of a war. This is exceedingly difficult because of Hamas Nakba propaganda threats of violence to prevent civilians from leaving areas where there’s heavy fighting. Obviously Hamas wouldn’t survive very long if they didn’t have their human shields. You could walk from on end of the Gaza strip to the other in about 8 hours, so why is it a problem for civilians to get out of the parts of Gaza where there’s heavy fighting? Because nothing is easy in a war.
So no it’s not “let’s just rock up to Gaza with a bunch of food, problem solved!” It’s a war, you’re either going to be adding more food to a pile in a place where people aren’t going to get it, or there’s a high probability you’ll be killed because you’re in a place where there’s heavy fighting going on. This isn’t CoD game where devs made it impossible to kill civilians unless you install an “I’m an evil monster” mod that allows you to do so. Bullets, shells, missiles, drones going every which way. Bullet from an IDF misses it’s target it might hit you and you’re dead. Also a bullet from Hamas might miss it’s target and hit you and you’re dead. Hamas dresses like civilians (except when there’s a ceasefire, then they have no problem finding their uniforms) so an 18 year old in a firefight might think you’re the Hamas guy that was just shooting at him and you’re dead because you happened to be wearing the same clothes as a Hamas guy. This is a war against Hamas, an adversary that will use your death to further their propaganda, so they aren’t going to keep you safe (more the opposite) in the places they operate and those are the places where the food is needed.
So yeah, it was a propaganda mission designed to get everyone detained by the IDF so they could produce more propaganda. It was never about getting food to Palestinians.
Why would you think Israel would want there to be more civilians in a warzone? Why would you want more civilians in a warzone? There’s a lot of ghouls that actually want Greta Thunberg to get killed by the IDF since it would be a big boost to their propaganda. Are you one of these ghouls?
Geta Thunberg is 22 years old, she’s an adult. The “little Greta” bullshit is really grating.
I remember when i was 22 years old. i was basically a teenager with adult responsibility.
which is how Hamas treats their prisoners, where’s the outrage over that
We expect more from a country that is supposed to be a western style liberal democracy.
“anti-Israel propaganda” ?
🤣😹😝😆🫠🤣🙃😸🤣
All the “propaganda” is coming from Israel, and it isn’t anti-Israel.
