It’s important to know your audience. it’s also important to know your not-audience.
Naudience.
naughtyence
For when your core demographic eventually ages itself out of your intended demographic, owo
Why can’t we have Doom except instead of shooting monsters, we have to manage train schedules? In space?
Sans the lack of shooting, this will serve.
Just play on peaceful difficulty, no biters means no shooting.
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There are plenty of guns in that game though
“Sans the lack of shooting” Sans means without
Fuck
There’s shooting in Factorio. You can even automate pistols for some reason.
That’s what they’re saying. Sans means without, so “Sans the lack of shooting” is “Without the lack of shooting”
Still a Satisfactory level of shooting in that game imo
That’s what they’re saying. Sans means without, so “Sans the lack of shooting” is “Without the lack of shooting”
Depression.
Your mother sucks off train conductors in deep space!
And your father smells of elderberry.
Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1366540/Dyson_Sphere_Program/
Mmm… there are many games that fit that criteria.
Is it somehow set in a high school and it’s all anime?
Can we date the Pinky?
One of the keys to being happy is just letting other people enjoy things.
This! If someone could explain that to republicans, please?!?
You would first have to explain the concept of other people
Pretty interesting tiktok take on this posted earlier today on lemmy about a boomer meme:
https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/just-coffee-black#fnr11
He goes on to talk about what might have motivated the artist to draw the comic, pointing out that nobody has taken black coffee away from him. Pargin says:
"All that happened is the range of options for other people expanded and he perceived that as persecution […] this is not political, this is a human nature thing. Most people are not satisfied to simply have the option to live their life the way they want. They also want to feel normal […] and see that most people have made the same choice they have made.
Clever take on that, thanks for sharing.
Oh, that’s Jason Pargin. People might recognize his pen name David Wong.
They can enjoy whatever they want, but they have to enjoy them the right way!
Yep and part of that is just letting the things exist and be what they are, even if they aren’t for you.
Let DOOM be what it is for those of us who were the right edgy age at the right time to eat it up. Let the calm games be what they are too, without requiring combat mechanics.
People gotta practice letting go. In general. About literally anything. The correlation I see in my acquaintances between not letting go of trivial shit (including the existence of different types of people that like different things) is stark.
Also for those who the “right edgy age” is their whole life.
Yeah that too. Didn’t mean to imply otherwise!
In my old age with sophisticated tastes I do enjoy a little Brutal DOOM now and again.
My favorite thing about Sandy Peterson is that he is a Mormon. Not that I like that he’s religious. But when he was applying to ID Software to make Doom levels, they were concerned about his religious background. Then he said his famous line “I have no problems with the demons in the game. They’re just cartoons. And, anyway, they’re the bad guys.”
But when they said, “Well at least you’re not like one of the crazy ones who carries a card!” And Sandy whips out his Mormon card…
Fuckin’ A. This guy is great.
If they want to strike up chats with demons they should give Shin Megami Tensei a whirl.
Oh my god, Mothman can say that to you in 5? 💀
The conversations in SMTV are fantastic.
Isn’t this something that happens in Balder’s Gate 3?
“If into the diplomacy options you go, only pain will you find.”
I dunno man, I’m going through it for the first time right now and I convinced a demon to kill his minions and himself in front of me.
My group cheered when I convinced him to do that.
Probably because it was the first time I didn’t first seduce the enemy
ahem
STOP LICKING THE DAMN THING!
It’s a very mixed bag. You can (technically) do a Pacifist Run in BG3 that leans on conversation to keep earning XP in a game that heavily favors combat rewards.
But without prior experience in the story paths, it can be hard to know who can actually be cajoled and who is innately unreconcileable. Lots of NPCs lie or bluff or just bait you into giving up initiative.
You do get more story in dialogue. So if you don’t mind the odd ambush or icy rebuff, I’d say there’s more to diplomacy than just pain.
The Shin Megami Tensei games have speaking to demons as an important part of the gameplay
And honestly I would not be surprised at all to hear a demon in SMT tell me that my mother sucks cock in Hell. And then I’d say something like, “she’s better at it than you” and there’s a 50% chance they like my attitude and decide to join my team, and a 50% chance they get offended and take a free turn.
The insult would be especially great coming from one of these guys:
Mara is such an icon
I got super annoyed by how arbitrary all of that was when I first started getting into the series. It really does seem like pure chance sometimes.
But then after a while I started to realize that it fits, because these are sassy demons. Of course it’s not going to make sense.
I loved Strange Journey increasing recruit odds for demons of same alignment. Not only does that give it gameplay purpose, it means you can get consistent fusion fodder without the BS, while preventing you from peacing out of every fight.
It’s just always a full moon in DOOM
I would also be mad if a demon said that to me. That’s not nice :c
I expect a demon to say that it would be weird if the demon said something nicer.
It’s a line from the movie “The Exorcist”. Coincidentally just watched Ricky Gervais’ new standup special that just came out in which he riffs on this exact line.
“Ah, you must be the tiny-dicked one she mentioned yesterday.”
After genuinely laughing at this, I anecdottaly remember my father asking, “If your home sick, why are you playing vidya games?”…it was 'Rise of the Triad" at the time…
“To distract myself from feeling sick!”
I’m being healed by the wololo
Thank you for the only logical response.
Eat lead!
I feel the bad feedback trope is inverted in 2025. Devs will release a game, get a solid audience, then completely change mechanics or style or direction for no apparent reason. The audience complains (pointing out what they like in the original release), the devs tell them to kick rocks and the game shrivels up and dies.
cough Battlebit cough
Agreed
What happened to Battlebit? I didn’t play it much, but when I did it was basically just voxel Battlefield 2/3/4. If they pivoted I sure hope it’s something stupid like survival extraction zombies or something, just because that would be the lamest possible direction.
If you try to please everyone, you will please no one.
I kinda like and appreciate the theme that:
- We should try talking things out with people
- some people will never accept any negotiation
- People (or demons) that don’t negotiate are the ideal candidate for violence
Doom feels so much more cathartic if you can gather a setup where all the demons deserve each ounce of pain.
Also more importantly, people should argue in good faith.
Wasn’t the original vision of Doom closer to an RPG than the action game it came out to be? I know I read somewhere (one of the books written about development of the game) it was originally meant to have a bigger story, multiple characters, dialogue, etc.
Maybe? The devs played DnD during development and the chapter text definitely sounds like a GM setting the scene. Supposedly Daikatana is closer to John Romero’s vision of
Doom(it was Quake). It’s not great though, so if they tried to implement those ideas back with Doom, it probably wouldn’t have been as well received. Doom has a sort of K.I.S.S. design.
Graphic design is my passion
You gotta understand. This was 1994. Graphic design wasn’t invented yet.
That is correct! Look at the Doom Bible
are you thinking of quake?
No. Doom.
Quake never had any vision, originally. That’s why it seems so random.
… OK, I read masters of doom. Quake had a vision, that vision became daikatana.
The problem was that Romero couldn’t bring everyone on board, because it was too complex and they slapped whatever everyone did together; hence the random design
Check out Doom Bible; Tom Hall’s original design document for Doom. One of the first drafts is where what I am talking about came from.
Sure. It can be true for both games :)
Although, I did play and learn about Rise of the Triad, which is what Tom’s vision for the Wolfenstein 3d sequel turned into, and it was still a run and gun shooter.
EDIT : I suggested quake because you said you were unsure :)
I know Quake was originally planned as an RPG, and became an FPS because they had to ship “something” and they knew how to do FPS
Games like System Shock and Deus Ex are examples of “FPS” games with alternatives to shooting. Those kinds of games are completely my jam. I love to find a way to complete the whole level without ever firing a shot. The Deus Ex remake had an achievement for passing a level without ever being spotted in an unauthorized place, never setting off an alarm, etc. It also had one for completing a level without killing anybody. It took 5x as long, but I made sure to get both those achievements on every level.
I’m sure the id software crew knew what they were doing, and the market for demon-murdering FPS games is probably much bigger than the market for First Person Sneakers. OTOH, there are currently a glut of FPS murder games, so there’s probably a real niche for someone who’s willing to create a game where shooting is possible, and happens sometimes, but stealth and nonviolence is also an option.
bruh “your mom sucks demon cocks”
of course he was mad lmao
I mean, anything beginning with “your mother” can just be dismissed as lazy.
I mean, it’s a reference to The Exorcist, so…
Your mother can just be dismissed as lazy.
Demons aren’t known for their creativity.
I don’t think Sandy did much game design on Doom though. He was mainly a level designer who came in late in the project to finish the levels started by Tom Hall, who had left id software, and to grind out levels for the third episode. By the time Sandy joined id software, Doom (the engine and game mechanics) was already pretty much the game it was going to be.
I should also say that the maps he made for Doom and Doom 2 are by far my least favorite in the game.
