While Take-Two is riding high on their announcement that a GTA 6 trailer is coming, its CEO has some…interesting ideas on how much video games could cost, part of a contingent of executives that believe games are underpriced, given their cost, length or some combination of the two.
Thank fuck for indie devs making the best games right now at an affordable price.
I have over a thousand games in my steam library and my most played is dominated by indie games.
I am curious which indie titles you would recommend.
- Outer Wilds
- Subnautica
- Slay The Spire
- Noita
- Domekeeper
- Risk Of Rain 2
- Inscryption
- Barotrauma
- Battlebit Remastered
- GRIP: Combat Racing
- Factorio
- Dyson Sphere Program
- Against The Storm
- Banished
- Caves Of Qud
- Darkest Dungeon
- Deep Rock Galactic
- Duskers
- Fly Dangerous
- Foxhole
- Forts
- Frostpunk
- FTL
- Graveyard Keeper
- Hardspace Shipbreaker
- Hollow Knight
- Hotline Miami
- Kingdoms And Castles
- Loop Hero
- Magicka & Magicka 2
- Nebulous Fleet Command
- Nebuchadnezzar
- OpenTTD
- Oxygen Not Included
- Peglin
- Project Zomboid
- Rimworld
- Shapez
- Mindustry
- Songs Of Conquest
- Starbound
- Starmancer
- Stardew Valley
- Tin Can
- Terraria
- Trailmakers
- Delta V: Rings Of Saturn
- Vampire Survivors
- Vectorio
- Wizard With A Gun
- HADES
- Beyond All Reason
Not in any specific order, my steam library is about 80% either Indie or non-AAA.
In addition to that:
- Atom RPG;
- Dead Cells;
- Into the breach;
- Shadowrun series;
- This war of mine;
- Dust - An Elysian Tail;
- Broforce;
- Bastion;
Many more of course.
In addition to these games I find these games below to be an absolute hoot
- disco elysium
- beamng drive
Chained echoes is also a banger
Would you say bastion is the best supergiant title pre-Hades? I’ve been eyeing both that and transistor for a while
I would. But I didn’t play a lot of their games. Bastion is kind of unique. Story is pretty linear but its structure is quite a novelty. There’s an awesome narrator that is telling the story, but he reacts to everything you do and has a snarky sense of humor. Game is well designed action RPG with a good variety of weapons and in my eyes very little replay value. Still worth the asking price though.
I recently played Outer Wilds for the first time last week. Games like this, I always worry they’re overhyped, but it was great.
There’s a lot of good games on this list, plus ones I’ve never played before, I should probably check some of them out.
Ignore the pre-release hype (I mean hype before anyone gets to try the game, early access hype is good). If the game is hyped after people get to play it, then I find it’s safer to trust, though personal preferences can still make it miss the mark.
CrossCode! Why is this freaking game still such an underdog?
Zero Sievert is also well worth mentioning.CrossCode isn’t my type of a game but I saved Zero Sievert, looks good!
Yeah, CrossCode is absolutely amazing. I didn’t hear about it until recently. I’m so glad I didn’t completely miss out on it. It’s like my number 1 favourite game now and I almost missed it.
I like to make sure I bring it up anytime people ask about good games they may not have heard of.
Literally my idea of the perfect game.
Welcome to the CC simps, because you’re certainly not the only one who does that. It’s generally a no brainer considering that they also still offer a demo to just try it out. Of course that doesn’t tell you much about the great story and characters, but I think the fluidity of the movement and combat system definitely can convince people over already.
This list is utterly fantastic, but if you haven’t given Dave The Diver a chance you definitely should. It’s by far my favorite release from this year, and the devs seem to have even more content planned.
Heard about it, haven’t played it yet but I did have heard great stuff about it, it’s definitely on my future radar
Can confirm these are absolute bangers
Can confirm your confirmation, some of these are incredible experiences
I agree with you man, thanks for agreeing with me
Rock and stoneee o-T
That feeling when you have played (and loved!) Like 90% of this list lmao
…do I play too many games?
…nah
I see an fellow barotrumua player. My favourite aspect of barotrumua is the
griefingclowning aspectTy for the list!
Thank you very much for the recommendations!
I’d like to add Ardor to the list. It’s a free turn based deck building game where you face off against hexagon creatures on a hexagon board. It’s pretty polished for an actual free to play game.
This sounds interesting, thank you!
What’s your genre?
Can you recommend any dungeon crawlers or survival games?
Some dungeon crawlers I enjoyed: Hades, Enter the Gungeon, Torchlight 1 & 2, Crypt of the Necrodancer, Legend of Grimrock, The Binding of Isaac Rebirth
Hades on the Switch might be right up your alley
For the king (1&2) & Valheim
Shattered Pixel Dungeon is my all-time favorite mobile game. It’s a Rogue-like with hundreds/thousands of ways to win; but be prepared to be humbled.
Literally just made it to the shop keeper after defeating the slime boss. It’s a hell of a game. Maybe one of the best.
See I normally like this type of game but struggle to get into this one in particular. I’m also confused about most items in it.
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For a literal dungeon crawler: Demeo
Ape Escape is very quick to pick up and a blast to play. It’s more of the old school side scrolling style, but definitely in the survival theme.
Neverwinter Nights has 20+ years of custom content, runs on almost anything, is still getting graphical & engine updates and has modules & persistent world servers that cover both of those genres & more.
Tower defense and strategy in general.
Try Factorio, its fantastic
Mindustry
For strategy paradox games are always fun
Do you mean Paradox Interactive? Publishers of Stellaris, Europa Universalis, etc.
Yeah
If you want something competitive, Legion TD2
Looks interesting, thanks.
Not exactly a minor indie game by any means, but bloons td6 is the game I’ve player the most on mobile by some distance. It’s £6 with no microtransactions and a shit load of content. If you like TD games this is a home run.
First person shooters
Check out Splitgate not indie but I had a good blast with my friends
I thought Split Gate was shutting down.
Otherwise I’d agree it’s great fun.
I was going to reply, but most of the games I would recommend are already listed out.
Some gems are missing, but I’d need to be at my PC to figure out which ones.
However, I did not see Unexplored 1 mentioned by anyone off the top of my head.
A few of those games form my core of things I’ll go back to every so often, though those aren’t all Indies. I’d probably throw CDDA, Dwarf Fortress and KSP in there too though, off the top of my head. Surprised to see foxhole in there but I suppose it’s in a relatively decent state at the moment and it’s somehow claimed 1400 hours from me on steam now.
I have over 1600 hours in Binding of Isaac.
Disco elysium
Yea, I wouldn’t give them any money, though. The actual creators got fucked and any purchases of the game go to the people that fucked them. Great game, but I’d sail the seas for it.
Sea of Stars recently came out if you liked older SNES RPGs. Reminiscent of Chrono Trigger, they even snagged one of the music producers from it. Great story IMO. I got about 45 hours out of it.
Hollow Knight if you like metroidvanias. Played through it 2 or 3 times now. My son and I are excited for the sequel if it ever releases.
Tricky Towers is a family fun Tetris type multi-player game.
Blue Fire, 3D platformer/metroidvania.
Hacknet, OS UI hacking sim.
Crab Champions (early access coded by EDM producer Noisestorm), 3D bullet hell/loot&shoot where you play as you guessed it… a crab. Has an amazing soundtrack.
Darkside Detective, 2D point and click puzzle solver with a hilarious storyline.
Death’s Door, top down dungeon crawler/RPG.
Stupid metric by some rich asshole who is solely focused on making more money.
I read something like this and my immediate thought is “torches, pitchforks, guillotines.”
Returning to a feudal economy is a sensible idea, lighting with renewable materials, making hay while the sun shines and executing traitors is much more productive than playing games
Seriously I’m tired of all these gaming CEOs that don’t play games therefore are so out of touch. Guy is just another Kotick clone.
The problem is an hour of what. Me wandering around trying to find something described vaguely and being frustrated, is not the same as an hour of well written and interesting dialogue.
Do people get refund if the game have a bug or a glitch that slow them down?
Or hell, what if I play the game for 20 minutes and hate it? Do they pay me? Do I give them 25 cents?
An hour of grinding - that they will also sell you powerups to help you skip that grind.
As a Morrowind player, I feel attacked
Morrowind has good writing in it too, though. I think we can all agree nobody should be paying ‘dollars per hour’ while wandering completely lost and annoyed ;)
Theoretically he can go fuck himself. All that is going to do is make games drag out mindless crap with no actual value entertainment-wise.
The most successful games are already like that, and I hate it. Give me a good story in a compact experience (luckily, still many examples for that).
First thing that comes to mind for me is Far Cry 6, where there is a few missions you have to find certain things without the aid of any quest markers.
Imagine a game like that with absolutely no markers and they take your map as well. At best you’d spend 3 times as long trying to finish the same game, and now they think they can charge you 3 times as much? Fuck that noise.
Sounds like someone wants me to not buy their overpriced game.
Yup. For every idiot like this, there’s an indie game or even a Larian Studios offering MUCH better bang for your bucks.
Rockstar’s games are the rare few I’d say are worth a full $60
That was before they started diarrhea shitting themselves since the founders left. GTA Trilogy, GTA+, and removing cars people paid for in Online is just a taste of things to come.
I specifically mean their in-house single player games, so only GTA V and RDR2 for the last decade.
That’s what I mean, Rockstar was a brand you could trust until after RDR2. Founders left right after and you can see how things changed right after.
Yeah, they left and the change was IMMEDIATE. Holy moly the shit show that was RDO. If you were playing that game back then, you could see the crumbling of the company happening in real time, it was wild. RDO being left to rot is my Roman empire, and I wonder if the founders feel regret at all with how their creation was treated by the company they left. Or if they just dry their tears with hundos these days?
Heck, I don’t even feel like RDR2 lived up to it’s full potential before they left, what with post-game being the most buggy and unfinished-feeling part of the whole game. It felt like it was just waiting for DLC content to be added, since it was a huge patch of map with hardly anything going on. Sigh, who knows.
Too bad it will be at a minimum $70, and i bet with the hype, even $80, while also being chockful of microtransactions.
It’s Rockstar Games, they love microtransactions and Sharkcards and will more than likely implement more greed tactics into their next big game (GTA 6). I’m still pissed off over the bilking they did with the bunker series in GTA 5. They’re a ruthless, greedy company. And don’t forget those times they went after those fanboys/talented game designers who were revamping their old games like GTA 4. Those kids were super talented and Rockstar busted their asses like the mobsters they are. Fuck Rockstar and their next GTA greed fest.
Don’t call them mobsters, they probably think that sounds cool. More like corporate sell outs.
Sure, great idea, why wouldn’t I want more low quality padding content in my games? It’s not like they already have too much of it.
That’s a subscription. He should try it and see how that goes.
GTA+ is already a thing…
Because everyone here is just reacting to the terrible Forbes headline because that’s all people do. Here’s the actual content that you can pick apart, instead of picking apart the headline that some Forbes editor wrote.
he thinks GTA is one of the best values on the market. Here’s what he said:
“In terms of our pricing for any entertainment property, basically the algorithm is the value of the expected entertainment usage, which is to say the per hour value times the number of expected hours plus the terminal value that’s perceived by the customer in ownership, if the title is owned rather than rented or subscribed to.”
So he was just saying that gta is good value for money given their metrics
He can still go fuck himself. I was promised single player DLC in GTA 5 and instead they put their entire focus on GTA online which I’m sure will continue with 6. I’ll probably pirate it because, as much as I hate to admit it I’m still a fan, but I’m not giving them another cent.
“I will pirate because you didnt give me sp dlc” is one of the craziest reasons ahaha. GTA 5 was good value all things considered, was a great game.
Yeah, I’m going to have to agree. It had plenty of content to make up for its price tag.
I agree with the general sentiment of boo for not making dlc. but if your proposition is “i’m going to pirate your next game” then you’re probably just pushing them further into a direction you don’t want them to go.
It’s rockstar, they’ve enough money to not give a fuck no matter what.
They were not going to shift course on game design based on a single sale turned pirate
If you think that giant companies don’t look at social media responses to their games in order to make future decisions, I have a bridge to sell you.
If you think that companies look at social media more than their own sales metrics, then Ive probably already sold you a bridge and have a loyalty program for you to sign up for, to get 15% off your next purchase
If you think that giant companies don’t look at social media responses to their games in order to make future decisions, I have a bridge to sell you.
I’ve been part of Community Management at a major studio, and I was told to stop ‘wasting their time’ with customer feedback, so which bridge is it?
Odds that you can name the studio?
I can deflect the doxxing slightly by saying it’s more than one. The first rhymes with Wicrosoft and the other is too small and would definitely doxx me. However I have friends all over the industry, and can confirm identical reactions from places with names similar to Acti… mizion, Sledge…wammer Ztudios, 434… endustries, Pioware… Grames?
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That really only could be considered even remotely plausible if everyone played online, but most people quickly discovered it was a trash money grab. Otherwise it’s no better value than any other story driven single player game.
gta games are typically pretty competitive with everyone else in terms of value for money on the base game. it’s been a while since there has been a new GTA game, and the other game they have produced - red dead redemption - was incredible value for money given the content and length.
we can complain about a lot, I’ll be the first to say their online is a money sucking low effort playground. But the quality of their single-player experiences is at worst “very very competitive”.
Ah but see, that may only be due to GTA V actually having the development time and releasing as a single player game because Online wasn’t near being ready when the game launched. Now that Online is out and that’s where their focus has been, we will most likely see the base single player game quality suffer dramatically. Look at games like Call of Duty. They used to have phenomenal single player experiences, and now you’re lucky if you get something worth playing at all.
So I would point at rdr2. That came out long after gta v online made mountains of money. Large single-player experience. Online existed, didn’t detract.
That may be true for many, but I’m willing to bet most of those “hours” they count are for GTA Online. Have they ever mentioned what percentage of players play Online versus all sales? Because that is something many of us have never and will never touch so it isn’t included at all in my value consideration other than a negative for the company to focus on INSTEAD of additional single player content.
If they want to turn GTA into an always online Game as a Service, that is their prerogative, but don’t try and hide it stuffed alongside a single player game they’ll ignore after release, and don’t be surprised when some people stop buying and playing when the only option is online multiplayer.
Cool, so could the makers of the software they use to make these games do the same to them? They should pay them all for the per hour value times the expected hours of development plus the terminal value perceived by expected income from sales! Yes, good business model. Maximize them profits!!!
the makers of the software they use also have their own algorithms for determining pricing yes.
Yeah, and I bet they’re affordable. What Strauss is proposing is a massive increase in initial purchase price for those that aren’t paying subscriptions. $70 is borderline affordable for a lot of people as is and that will now be a higher entry price. I’m not in that boat, personally, but I can see how it would be detrimental to the gaming industry as a whole.
Then again, there is the flip side where people are now forced to choose the games they can afford that year even more carefully (1-2 vs 6-7 or more as an example) and if a game fails expectations and someone misses out on something else, then maybe it’ll start putting some shitty developers out of business.
They aren’t proposing increasing the price. Did you read the article or my initial comment about how people just read the bad headline and argue against it at all?
Of course I read the article. It specifically says, “… value of the expected entertainment usage, which is to say the per hour value times the number of expected hours plus the terminal value that’s perceived by the customer in ownership, if the title is owned rather than rented or subscribed to…”
I’m beginning to wonder if you read the article. They want to charge off of one value and add it to an initial base value. If you think this idea has nothing to do with increasing profits then I have a bridge in the Sahara to sell you.
Nothing in that is about raising the price, the whole thing is about him showing off what great value the series is by their metrics.
Here’s where you say “of course it is! I’ve imagined that this leads to the next thing which is raised prices”. Cool, go make these comments on the thread about them raising prices, or proposing raising prices. That isn’t what is happening here.
Executives are assholes and should not be listened to, ever.
The less someone actually plays games, the more this idea will make sense to them.
Gamers, especially older gamers, will know this is a BS metric.
4k+ hours on path of exile. I played D2 probably more hours than my kids have been alive.
I’ve often come across this sentiment in Steam reviews and it’s very reductive to judge games based mainly on this metric. Getting older I have less time for videogames and I value shorter games more. There are games that are extremely valuable because of their high quality even if very short, like the first Portal.
This is why we have companies like Ubisoft trying to game the system constantly with low quality content to pad the game to 100 hours or whatever is fashionable in open world these days. I will take 6 hours of quality single player anytime over 100 hours of AssCreed grinding and ridiculous ‘story’
I also have less time to game, but I sure as hell don’t want to play shorter games. I like to play games with good stories, who are engaging and with fun play. Witcher 3 is a prime example of how even the majority of the side quests can be meaningful and not feeling too generic. I also enjoyed the last of us part 2. And I usually feel sorry when I finish a good game.
And shorter games should naturally command a lower price which isn’t always the case.
And shorter games should naturally command a lower price
This is exactly the thing that doesn’t make any sense. Should The Last of Us be priced at a fraction of The Witcher 3 because it is shorter? What about Bioshock? It’s half the length of The Last of Us 2
I don’t know if shorter games should command a lower price. It depends on the value you get out of it.
It is debatable, but would you pay 70$ for a 2-hours game and another 10x70$ for DLCs and expansions that would extend the original content?
But this also doesn’t mean that you should feel your game with generic content in order to make it longer either. It is a fine line but I know that I would have a real problem justifying 70€ for 2 hours of game content without replayability, even if the game is amazing.
I agree, that’s why i think Take Two owe me $23 because i finished GTAV in 37 hours.
Though i hope Wube, Bethesda, and Fromsoft won’t bill me for my playtime…
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I played 3 GTAs, and I only enjoyed gta 2. They owe me money
I am certain they will count achievements in the playtime.
Can’t wait for them to try this, it flops, half the staff gets laid off, the CEO steps down with a golden parachute, the CEO trades places with the CEO of another tech company, that new CEO makes an even worse decision, another half of the staff gets laid off, the new CEO gets a raise, Microsoft buys both companies, Google makes a competing game studio that gets killed before their first game release, and Apple releases their first video game for $3000 that only runs on M2 and above.
One correction:
Apple releases “iTetris” for $3000. Their fans claim it’s way better than the original. It’s the same game with only 8 levels, but you can pay extra for more.
Doesn’t seem fair that some people get paid so well for fucking up so badly.
This dude just speedran 2024 and 2025
We’re living in a dystopia so boring that the future is easily predictable.
I always prefer a good 5 hour experience over a bland 60 hour experience.
It does sound like the next step here would be adding as much low quality filler content as possible to spread out play time.
Just add a bunch of GOW-style “slowly crawl through the narrow space” parts to pad the play time!
If video games were priced by hours of dev time, I could kind of agree (with the theory, in practice it doesn’t really make sense). But let’s be honest here - that’s not what he means at all.
Not only is it not what he means but this same asshole would probably force devs to add padded objectives just so he could claim it takes more hours to finish. The new GTA will have 1000 missions where you have to walk across the whole map to retrieve some object that needs to be walked back to the other side if this dick gets his way. It’ll be the first game in history where it takes 2 years to 100% it and costs $200 so it’s a steal - only $100 per year of gameplay!
