Well, I made an attempt. I just ask that you consult with someone who you will actually pay attention to as to whether this comparison is an offensive one to make. As I said, when you’re starting to sound like a neo-confederate, step back and ask whether you’re saying something offensive.
To recap, I addressed your points with concrete examples showing why they’re wrong. You come back parroting the same thing again. It’s like talking to a bot.
This comparison is only offensive from a hyper idealist moralist point of view. It isn’t like chattel slavery was better at any point or that changing it to wage slavery was not a progress, especially on a systemic scale.
We argue that wage slavery is still slavery in other form and chattel slavery was not abolished because some moralist crap but because it was more effective for the ruling bourgeoise class, which is literally what the meme was about and which should be clear especially on the example of USA. And also, that it was not entirely abolished in USA exactly because the form in which it exist now (prison labour), even if restricted in scale by its nature and by ruling social system, is bringing more profit than wage slavery - which results in absurdly high rate of incarceration.
Notice that the only objection @pingveno@lemmy.ml makes to chattel slavery in this whole thread is the brutality. Evidently, he’d be perfectly fine with the system as long as the slave owners weren’t allowed to egregiously abuse their slaves. Thus he even argues that the modern prison slavery in US is not comparable to chattel slavery.
I also love this notion that the conditions got better because of capitalism. This shows such profound ignorance of history. Pretty much all the concessions workers got were won through militant organization of workers and the threat of USSR.
Nobody remembers that rights were payed in blood. Literally nobody. Everyone thinks that at some point in history we suddenly obtained them or something.
And the fact that those rights were fought by the left is even more forgoten…
Evidently, he’d be perfectly fine with the system as long as the slave owners weren’t allowed to egregiously abuse their slaves.
Slavery is intrinsically abusive. I didn’t think I needed to bother saying that. Chattel slavery is intrinsically more abusive than other forms of slavery, especially as was practiced in the South.
Thus he even argues that the modern prison slavery in US is not comparable to chattel slavery.
Comparable? Hell no, in the same way that the Holocaust is not comparable with a few dozen people being murdered. Obviously both are evil, but one is terrible on a completely different scale than the other.
Rounding up minorities to work in labour camps is likewise intrinsically abusive. Again, the argument you’re trying to build is based on chattel slavery being excessively abusive the way it was practised in US. This implies that you don’t actually have an issue with the concept in general, just as long as slaves aren’t abused excessively. Hence, US prison system today is not comparable.
And here’s where you’re making a mistake. You’re drawing all sorts of inferences to put words in my mouth. I don’t know if you’re just a spiteful individual, but it’s a pattern of behavior.
I can only infer what you mean based on what you say. In the entirety of this thread the only criticism you’ve managed to come up with for chattel slavery is that it’s exceptionally abusive.
Nowhere do you address the fundamental issue that chattel slavery shares with capitalism which is the domination of one set of individuals by another.
Well, I made an attempt. I just ask that you consult with someone who you will actually pay attention to as to whether this comparison is an offensive one to make. As I said, when you’re starting to sound like a neo-confederate, step back and ask whether you’re saying something offensive.
To recap, I addressed your points with concrete examples showing why they’re wrong. You come back parroting the same thing again. It’s like talking to a bot.
This comparison is only offensive from a hyper idealist moralist point of view. It isn’t like chattel slavery was better at any point or that changing it to wage slavery was not a progress, especially on a systemic scale.
We argue that wage slavery is still slavery in other form and chattel slavery was not abolished because some moralist crap but because it was more effective for the ruling bourgeoise class, which is literally what the meme was about and which should be clear especially on the example of USA. And also, that it was not entirely abolished in USA exactly because the form in which it exist now (prison labour), even if restricted in scale by its nature and by ruling social system, is bringing more profit than wage slavery - which results in absurdly high rate of incarceration.
Notice that the only objection @pingveno@lemmy.ml makes to chattel slavery in this whole thread is the brutality. Evidently, he’d be perfectly fine with the system as long as the slave owners weren’t allowed to egregiously abuse their slaves. Thus he even argues that the modern prison slavery in US is not comparable to chattel slavery.
Ah yes, the benevolent slaver myth.
I also love this notion that the conditions got better because of capitalism. This shows such profound ignorance of history. Pretty much all the concessions workers got were won through militant organization of workers and the threat of USSR.
Nobody remembers that rights were payed in blood. Literally nobody. Everyone thinks that at some point in history we suddenly obtained them or something.
And the fact that those rights were fought by the left is even more forgoten…
Yeah, people really need to learn how all these rights we enjoy today were won.
Things like the 8 hour work day?
Yeah, things like 8 hour work day were won through violent labour action. Love how you keep claiming to be historically literate, but clearly not the case is it https://www.ibew48.com/blog/may-day-and-fight-8-hour-work-day
Slavery is intrinsically abusive. I didn’t think I needed to bother saying that. Chattel slavery is intrinsically more abusive than other forms of slavery, especially as was practiced in the South.
Comparable? Hell no, in the same way that the Holocaust is not comparable with a few dozen people being murdered. Obviously both are evil, but one is terrible on a completely different scale than the other.
Rounding up minorities to work in labour camps is likewise intrinsically abusive. Again, the argument you’re trying to build is based on chattel slavery being excessively abusive the way it was practised in US. This implies that you don’t actually have an issue with the concept in general, just as long as slaves aren’t abused excessively. Hence, US prison system today is not comparable.
I love how you further go on to minimize the scale of the US prison labour system. Entire state economies are now based around it. In the United States today there are more prisoners than farmers.
You keep on digging though.
And here’s where you’re making a mistake. You’re drawing all sorts of inferences to put words in my mouth. I don’t know if you’re just a spiteful individual, but it’s a pattern of behavior.
I can only infer what you mean based on what you say. In the entirety of this thread the only criticism you’ve managed to come up with for chattel slavery is that it’s exceptionally abusive.
Nowhere do you address the fundamental issue that chattel slavery shares with capitalism which is the domination of one set of individuals by another.