I just want something as a proof of concept that this can be for me. I am aware I am the problem.
But everything is wildly difficult for me. I pulled back from docker after realising it was above my skillset, I just want to try home assisstant with a few lights but fair enough it is beyond me.
I opted to install a game, fail. Learn about wine and bottles. Start a bottle and get told I only have 8gb free in directory, I cannot for the life of me see where it is getting that from.
Please god someone tell me there is a step by step for the fucking imbeciles out there on where to start!?
There is no failure, only data.
Docker won’t make much sense if you don’t understand the underlying Linux systems and/or applications.
It’s similar with Wine and Bottles. If you don’t get what’s in the bottle, then running the bottle won’t make sense.
Find tasks that run on the native OS. learn to manage Linux itself. skip containers, Snap, virtual machines, etc.
try running a web server using httpd or something.
Yeah I need a basic basic start, hello linux world type shit. Except more basic than that.
Read into BASH, you may know it as the “Terminal” or “Console” people may also call it the “Shell” it’s essentially the heart of all modern Linux distribution’s and once you wrap your head around the command structure it’s pretty straight forward!
Key commands:
-
cd
== Change Directory -
sudo
== Root privileges -
mkdir
== Make directory -
rm -f
== Remove file/directory with force -
touch
== Make a new file -
nano
== Text/File editor -
cat
== Read file contents and print to shell
Commands don’t need to be complicated! For example
nano /home/SomeUser/Downloads/SomeRandom.txt
will open the text editor to SomeRandom.txt in the/Downloads
directory of SomeUserEach Linux distribution will come with a package manager, Debian based distributions like Ubuntu, Linux Mint, Kali Linux have dpkg and APT as their package managers and Arch-based systems have Pacman,Fedora-based systems use DNF.
If you really can’t handle the complexity perhaps trying an immutable distro like Bazzite which is more locked down, less easy to break and geared towards folks like yourself.
so just to be clear:
- bash
- terminal
- console
- shell
- terminal emulator
These are all the same thing?
For the most part yes!
There is a difference between
/bin/sh
(Bourne Shell) and/bin/bash
(Unix Shell), the Bourne shell is still used on more light-weight distro’s like Apache whereas BASH is more feature rich and larger which you use on the more heavier distributions.There is Zsh which is an extension of the Bourne Shell.
Fun fact; Your system may fallback to
/bin/sh
if it cannot boot properly or is unable to run/bin/bash
.
-
Try opening a terminal an typing
echo 'Hello World!'
My two cents: You can forget about Linux for a while. Using a terminal is more important. Here’s a classic guide: https://mywiki.wooledge.org/BashGuideLinux Journey will take you through the basics.
Have you tried using emulators? They’re a great start and can show you how to easily get some usage out of your computer.
If you have a controller, I recommend giving it a shot. There are plenty of emulators out there. Just pick a console you like and you can get games for free at vimm.net
Don’t feel bad, I’ve used Linux since 1995 and don’t have enough skills to use Bottles.
I do however game a lot, using mainly Steam and Heroic. You can try to start there.
I did get the Heroic Flatpak on my first install but it wouldnt do wat I needed with emulators…cant remember what it was, I think pcsx2 related.
I used Lutris and it worked great but I am struggling on this install to get it back to where I had it.
Also do you rcommend flatpaks always or just for beginners? I have both firfox and firefox FlatPak installed and same for a few other softwares.
Why do you want to run emulators through Heroic? Most emulators run natively on Linux, most of them are available as flatpaks or native packages.
I feel like you’re trying to do too much at once. Installing Linux for the first time and immediately trying to use and understand containers and virtualization is like trying to fly a fighter jet after getting your first drivers license lesson. For example, Docker is useful in server contexts when you want independent, isolated servers running next to each other on the same physical machine, much less in desktop environments.
Take the time to understand the concepts first. Proton/Wine are translation layers that let you run Windows applications/games on Linux almost as native applications, Steam and Heroic are storefronts to download and install paid games, Docker/Podman are used to run containers, virtual machines are fake computers inside your real computer that can be easily managed with Gnome Boxes for example, etc.
My take:
For gaming:
- run emulators as native Linux executables
- use Steam + Proton to install and run most windows games (even non-steam ones)
- use Heroic exclusively to install games from Epic and GOG. Run them through Steam if you want.
- use Lutris as la last resort as it’s the least plug-and-play option out there
- avoid plain Wine
For Windows applications:
- install a windows virtual machine in Gnome Boxes, install and run those programs as usual in the VM. Performance will suck.
- only use Wine/Bottles when you understand how they work.
Good advices.
A bit of research goes a long way. If you get a solid understanding of the basics, you can then build on it.
…its discerning what is meant to be basic is the issue I think
Yeah thats all fair, as for launchers for emulators - I was aiming for an all in one place to select games so I could put it to launch into big screen mode on my living room tv. My family less tech literate so I am simplifying…I thought
You could either add emulators as non-Steam games to Steam and launch it in Big Picture mode, or use RetroArch which is exactly made for this case
I use Flatpaks for a lot of stuff (Steam, Firefox, and some other stuff that I feel should not have access to my tax returns in the Documents directory). It’s not just for beginners, Flatpaks are useful for other reasons.
Yes I had heard people say to use them wherever they are available but I didnt understand the difference. If it is siloing them then great I’ll use all flatpaks so.
A thing about Linux is that there’s usually like 10 different ways to accomplish something. If you hit a dead end in terms of your ability or tolerance for frustration… just go back to square one and find a different approach. For games, I recommend starting with Steam.
I have fucked up my computer so many times.
- Accidentally uninstalled the graphical environment, because i didn’t notice my package manager was asking me if i wanted to uninstall 200 packages, along with whatever i actually wanted to uninstall.
- Tested a fork bomb (it worked!)
- Installed a dual boot system incorrectly.
- Installed a dual boot system correctly, but Windows had an update.
- Tried to switch out a working component with Something Really Cool™
- I have spent days troubleshooting an issue that turned out to be a simple syntax error.
- And, while technically not fucking with the computer itself, this deserves a mention; Fucking up the wifi/network SO MANY TIMES.
I have also succeeded with some really cool stuff, but that’s the thing about working with computers; you fail completely, until it works perfectly. This is of course a gross simplification, but it also has a lot of truth to it. There’s just not a lot “this is not great, but it will do”, it either functions or it fails (until you get it working and start fine tuning it for the rest of you life)
Just laugh at the absurdity of the situation when you realize you were just missing a comma in a JSON file, and don’t let it bother you that you didn’t notice before you paid to have your second floor covered in aluminium foil trying to fix the issue.
Try creating a VM in GNOME Boxes (if you use GNOME) or Virt-manager, take a snapshot, so you can easily repeat this process, and break it. Just make it stop functioning. Do it in an interesting way, and look up more ways on the internet.
Be curious, have fun and don’t feel bad about getting sick of that stupid computer, you can come back later and it won’t care that you even left.
My personal favorite was the time I accidentally gave every file in the system full permissions because I fucked up somehow with writing a command and recursively changed them on EVERYTHING instead of just the one directory I wanted to change
I was just trying to get a game from Origin (I think?) to work and I don’t remember what lead me to trying this but basically I just had to reinstall Linux
Hahahahahahaha, you’re a… tech “miracle”! For the 10 years with Linux I’ve never uninstalled the DE by accident or otherwise, or any of the other problems you mentioned. I have fucked up my computer only once but I did it on purpose - to see what will happen. I had already created a clonezilla backup of a working system, so I was free to experiment and… I decided to uninstall both kernels (rolling and LTS) and reboot. There was no kernel panic because there was no kernel to begin with. 😆
You seem to be reaching for pretty advanced solutions – Docker and HA both require you to read a lot of documentation to get started. Bottles is also a powerful and flexible tool, which is the opposite of simple.
What game are you trying to run? If it’s on Steam it should be a no-brainer, otherwise Lutris can simplify a lot of things.
I doubt you actually need Docker for anything, unless you have a specific use case I would just abandon that. For your lights, I would try searching for “home assistant [model/brand of lights]” and see if you can find a setup that someone else has gotten working that you can mostly copy.
Technically, nothing you use in tech is ever really “simple”, there’s tons of complexity hidden from the common user. And whenever parts of that complexity fail or don’t work like the user expects it to, then the superficially simple stuff becomes hard.
Docker and containers are a fairly advanced topic. Don’t think that it’s easy getting into this stuff. Everyone has to learn quite a bit in advance to utilize that.
To play games, you went into the wrong direction when fiddling with wine directly, or even just indirectly by using bottles You COULD do that, but you’ve literally chosen the hardest path to do so. You should use something like HeroicGamesLauncher, Lutris or Steam in order to manage your games, install and launch them fairly easily. These will take care of all the complex stuff behind the scenes for you.
Thanks, its heartening to know its fairly advamced stuff and Im not an idiot.
As for the gaming, I have seen some success last night. I managed to run the setup successfully in steam… but I dont know where the installed game is now to run it 😂
Bit by bit
Just launch the game from steam
I dont have it installed, I just have a setup.exe
Docker is annoying as fuck. Don’t blame yourself for not getting it to work.
Bottles is also annoying as fuck.
These two things aren’t really a sign of your skill. The first one (docker) is unfortunately super prevalent these days because of memes and bandwagoning. It has its use, but it’s also used in many places where it’s not needed without providing a comparable means to run software without docker. It sucks how newbies who are just trying to get a program to work all of a sudden have to learn a bunch of docker bullshit. Just another layer of crap to make things harder to learn while the creators jerk themselves off.
Running Windows games on Linux will always be a pain in the ass because you’re trying to run complicated, sometimes very old, software that straight up was not designed to be run on Linux! I’ve been doing it for years and it’s still a pain in the ass. Some games only work with Lutris, some require very specific settings. It’s all a mess and I don’t ever expect a Windows game to work unless I’ve gotten it to work recently and played it a bunch.
It’s not your fault. It’s not Linux’s fault. This is the price that we all collectively get to pay for not doing things right the first time.
In short, don’t lose hope. You’re doing fine.
I consider myself to be pretty okay at Linux - I’m no pro but I’ve been daily driving Linux for 10+ years, can troubleshoot most things, I’ve installed Arch from scratch without the installer script, I can setup and maintain NixOS without much trouble, I can automate stuff with Bash etc. But I still don’t understand Docker even a little bit. I don’t know why but I just can’t get my head around it. I’ve even searched for the “Explain Docker to me as if I’m five years old” type of guides and I still just bounce of it.
You are not on your own, I just can’t get my head around docker either on paper it make sense but it seems just enough of a difference to melt something in my brain. Added to the fact that docker fucks around with firewall rules thinking it’s the only thing of importance on the system, breaking KVM networking in the process. It’s just not something I trust to play well with others.
Portainer helped me get my head around docker images. And docker hub sometimes has the steps to configure the container, and sometimes not; many assume everyone knows how to pass bind or volume mounts and bridge or host network stuff.
I played with portainer a while to visually see what thing do.
Then it led to command line and yaml configs stuff after that. Its a learning process.
So… you receive plenty of great technical advice, I won’t go there.
I’m sure your title is wrong. I know for a fact that there is plenty of things you did with Linux that looked until then impossible. They do look impossible to most people today. So… yes there are plenty of things you don’t know how to reliably do but you eventually will manage!
I did read a bit from the Greater Good Science Center in Berkeley https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/ and there was a piece specifically on “everytime” or “always” as basically shortcuts during arguments that reframe the situation incorrectly. You surely meant to say “I often get frustrated trying new things on Linux” instead. It sounds like I’m nitpicking, yet simply rephrasing gives a totally new outlook to the situation. We all, literally ALL of us, do struggle when we try something new. We often fail but if we keep on trying, get methodical about it (what was the error message? did I try something similar before? how does it actually work? who could help me? etc) then you are bound to succeed.
So no, you are not the problem. No, you are not an imbecile. No, you do not always fail!
Appreciate this, its absolutely right. It was a moment of frustration for sure, not ready to trow the baby out with the bathwater just yet.
Some distros and technologies can be more complex.
For Home Assistant, consider using Yunohost. It doesn’t require Docker skills. You can find step-by-step guides on their website.
I guess gaming with Linux has always been tricky, you can check ProtonDB to see which games are easily compatible with Linux.
Yunohost is great, Portainer is also useful.
I opted to install a game, fail.
What game? Install how? Is it from an online platform?
I just want to try home assisstant with a few lights but fair enough it is beyond me.
The installation of home assistant, or its usage?
Mortal Kombat Fitgirl repack.
Literally just setting up docker to then install HA.
Dodi repacks tend to work better on Linux than fitgirl. Another option is to create a portable windows to go drive, use that to unpack the game then copy the files to your Linux drive.
I also tried to get diriger games to install with heroic, lutfisk or whatever but never got it to work. Threw the installer to steam and it just works. Weird… So I just do everything through steam now instead of messing around.
Mortal Kombat Fitgirl repack.
I’d use Lutris for that, it’s a rather automated process, you create a new entry, it asks for the installer, and usually recognises the correct executable for the game.
Literally just setting up docker to then install HA.
Personally, I prefer to run HA in a VM rather than Docker, especially if you’re experimenting, IIRC with docker installation it doesn’t support backup and restore of components and their settings. Virt-manager makes running VMs easy enough.
Not op but new to Linux myself. First I’m hearing of Lutris. If I understand correctly, Wine is used to install/run Windows programs in general, and Lutris does the same but with a specific focus on Windows games?
Try Heroic. I wouldn’t use Bottles for games.
Professional software engineer here. Those things are not easy and even seniors in my field (and myself, ex-top-tech) get tripped up on it and ask for help. Docker and self-hosting is an entire subspecialty (e.g. devops). Be gentle on yourself and don’t put yourself down. By struggling with Linux you are doing immense good for the open source community. “Step by step guides” not likely given the wide array of issues you could run into. If you know a technically strong person, buy them lunch and watch them walk through your problems for an hour. You’ll either learn something or feel validated that they’re struggling too. Keep at it and thanks!
I too am very cautious of getting stuck with Linux. I try to be sure I’m not doing things the hard way. I have found easy distros and easy ways to do most things in Linux despite many people suggesting I do it the IT pro way that they do. Usually because they haven’t investigated easy ways for non IT users. They mean well, but don’t know about usability or if there us an easy way.
which distro and hardware config? Can’t speak to docker as I don’t use that any more, I’ve yet to get stuck into homeassistant, but games are just click and run on most distros with steam?
I am running the most recent mint on a Dell 7060
I7 8700 processor. 480gb nvme SSD. 1tb HDD 16gb 2666 MHz DDR4 ram Intel UHD graphics 630
How is þat working for you as a desktop? Are you only encountering issues when you try to do someþing more technical?
If you want to run games, install Steam and get your games and run þem from þere. It’s þe easiest way to do it; going straight to Wine and Bottles is jumping in þe deep end.
You really should be comfortable in þe shell, and feel reasonably confident wiþ working wiþ Linux, before you do anyþing wiþ Docker or Podman.
If you want Home Assistant, even þe HA project recommends running þeir bespoke distribution wiþ HA already installed and ready to go. HA on any oþer distribution is þe hard way.
Linux can be easy to learn; it sounds as if you’re trying to take really big bites, and approaching projects in þe most difficult way. Which is fine! But it’s going to be harder, and require more patience.
Yeah I agree with all of this. It sounds like maybe you’re trying to learn too many different things at once. I’d pick one thing and stick with it until you’re comfortable.
What games are you trying to play? 99% of the time I’m able to just install a game in Steam and use Proton and be done with it. For any non-Steam games I just use Heroic Games Launcher.
Bazzite is a pretty good distro for gaming since it comes with some of these things pre installed or as an option to install them.
Tbh they are repacks of games I own on ps5, I want to see if I can make the switch so think like GoW and Mortal Kombat. Both of which I wont be paying for a second time. Is proton like a “runner” or extension I need for steam?
Proton’s a compatibility layer to translate between games that want to speak to windows and a Linux system. Steam downloads it for you if you turn it on as a setting, and most of the time you shouldn’t have to worry about it past that.
For pirated games: if you have the game as a folder with a game exe rather than an installer, you can still add it to steam pretty easily as a non-steam game and then just enable proton. If it has an installer this can still work, but it’s more of a pain cuz you have to add the installer to steam, run it with proton, and then switch the steam entry’s file location to the newly installed game. I honestly don’t recommend doing it that second way, I’m chronically allergic to bloat (arch btw) and even for me this is a dumb hacky work around.
You are right to call þem “pirated”, because technically. But I hate it. Þe creators of þe DMCA should be lined up against a wall, and shot. It should not be illegal to make copies of media you already paid for, for þe purpose of using it on a different platform.
No Proton is a compatibility layer for running Windows games on Linux. I’m not at my computer ATM but in the Steam settings somewhere you just flip the toggle on that says something like Enable Steam Play for all games. I think it’s in Compatibility or something like that.
Then any games you own on Steam you can just install and play and Steam will automatically choose the best Proton version for you. You can override it too if you need. ProtonDB is a good resource for looking up how well a game runs on Linux via Proton. Keep in mind it’s limited to games that have Steam releases though.
If you’re talking about playing PS5 games you’ve dumped from a disc with an emulator, which it sounds like maybe you are, Proton and Steam won’t do much for you here. If you’re talking about PC versions of these games that you’ve “acquired” then Steam may help there. You could add the game to your library as a “non-Steam” game and then just run it with Proton that way. HGL may work here too but I’ve only used HGL for games I own on GOG or Epic.
Brilliant thanks for the proton info, toggle on.
I have acquired the pc versions, mind you I own them legally as is for ps5, but I am having trouble installing them which is how I ended up using bottles and getting frustrated. I used fitgirl repacks and the setup doesnt work, presumable it is windows orientated so I moved to bottles to install which is where the drive volume issue arose
Ah I see. I’ve not used bottles so have no suggestions there, but you may be able to use Proton to run the installer. I’ve done that for other types of Windows apps like the Battlenet launcher or Origin/EA App. You add the installer itself as a non-Steam game, run it, go through the install process. Then you add the installed exe as a non-Steam game.
I think the installed files would be in the same location as the installer itself but they may also get their own app ID in your Steam folder. I can’t recall exactly.
Yeah absolutely I need to find the right pathway in, im not entirely tech illiterate but I have zero code knowledge or anything. I can understand highlevel stuff but the weeds are particularly weedy.
Im trying to see if Linux gaming is a possible alternative to ps5 and switch so I went with emulators and repacks to run some games I already have and it just opened a can of worms I was not prepared for.
You might want to check out Bazzite. It aims to smooth out the gaming experience significantly.
I don’t even play on Linux these days but I use Bazzite (Developer Experience) because the immutable base gives me peace of mind and all the gaming support helps when I have to use something like bottles.
Depending on what you want to do, it may require you to get comfortable with docker (or podman, but practically the same), but because this is part of the OS’s paradigm they give you all the tools to make it easy.
Bazzite’s an excellent recommendation for OP if þeir main objective is gaming.