Iāve recently tried to use peertube and I think it could improve a lot if it showed all the content in all instances. But instead you have to look around many instances to try and find something you like. Then thereās other thing, it canāt suggest content if it doesnāt know what you like and without sharing the data between the instances it doesnāt know anything about anyone. If the user data was encrypted and shared between all sites, when you log in it could use the now decrypted user data to suggest content. Or maybe it can share the data with third parties, I donāt really know.
A community dedicated to fediverse news and discussion.
Fediverse is a portmanteau of āfederationā and āuniverseā. It is a common, informal name for a federation of social network servers whose main purpose is microblogging, the sharing of short, public messages.
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Most peertube instances are pretty bad right now, so if one instance decides to follow everything else, that instance would be full of trash.
Also, as with a regular webpage, it doesnt make sense to link your instance to every other instance. Sure, by doing so, you increase the likelihood that there is some relevant content on your site, but it also becomes a cespool.
Rather, it makes more sense to be mindful about the instances you follow. Follow only those who are related to the content for your site. Your site should be thematic and have a vision. Follow the sites who shates a similar vision.
I was wondering the same thing. Do some people in the comments here really think itās bad that fediverse instances are highly connected? Because actually, having more disconnected servers leads to more centralization. Thatās the whole point of federation. With federation, small sites that otherwise wouldnāt have enough content to keep people interested can draw content from other sites, giving people more reason to stay. So it is imperative to have highly connected servers for decentralization to succeed.
I see instance memberships like passports. You could have multiple, but you ideally want just your home one for simplicity. Some passports are stronger than others because they let you travel to more places more conveniently, e.g. Japan and USA. So following this metaphor, lemmy.ml is the strongest passport. It federates with practically every other lemmy instance except a couple on the blocklist. Compare this to other instances that federate with only a couple instances. Who would want to join those? It would be like wanting to repatriate to Syria.
This was my experience when I made my account. I wanted to avoid lemmy.ml because I believe in distributing lemmy users across instances. But at the time all of the instances had so much weaker access in comparison. I couldnāt bring myself to do it. So I joined lemmy.ml like a lot of other people did. And the state of the lemmy network now is that 15k users are on lemmy.ml, and the other instances are in the dozens on average. I have ideas on how this can be addressed, but I think Iāve rambled enough for now.
An advantage of federating is to accommodate servers with a variety of objectives, and maximizing content isnāt always the primary objective. Sometimes itās to cultivate a good community that uses the tools in on the platform but not necessarily to have the widest reach of content, because creating places that moderate harassment and antagonization is sometimes the higher priority. Sometimes that, and not maximized access to content, is what draws people in. The major influxes of users to Mastodon at itās start joined for exactly this reason.
I think the concern regarding centralization was always with respect to the network as a whole - all of Twitter is just on Twitter, all of Facebook is just on Facebook, neither are spread across servers. Having multiple servers that exist for their own purpose serves to support decentralization, and having one server that has all the stuff you want that doesnāt connect with other servers is not realistically going to create another Facebook situation in terms of centralization, at least not at any point in the near future. The closest we have to that right now is Mastodon.social having the lions share of Mastodon users (in the English speaking world that is), and federating with mastodon.social leads to effectively leads to being a clone of Madison.social. That isnāt necessarily bad, but some communities have the goal of cultivating unique voices and letting specific kinds of content rise to the top, and that all washes out to an average, lowest common denominator if they federate with the biggest servers. Rather than centralizing, it serves to create a diversity of unique offerings.
Iām also generally wary of arguments that everything needs to be connected because trolls frequently make that argument, hoping to pry open the platform for more harassment, and by design the fediverse is structured to be resilient against that. So itās good to get people explicitly on the record about whether they think trolling is a problem, whether āfree speechā on the internet is more important than moderation, and what they think the implications of their suggestion are on that issue, because itās at the heart of federation, and sometimes these conversations are really just about creating a backdoor for trolling and normizaling policies that make trolling easy.
Yeah, there will be instances that people run that have bigoted and harassful content and the like, and there are people who donāt want to see any of that and want to be on an instance that blocks that, thatās fine. But I donāt see a good reason why any two unproblematic instances should be disconnected.
I see your point about some instances wanting to cultivate their own ecosystem and not blend in to one monotony. But to keep things disconnected is like giving a lung transplant to someone with a cough. Itās an extreme solution to the problem that could be solved in other ways with fewer negative consequences.
Thatās why local exists if you just want to view content from your home server. Thatās why communities exist on lemmy. And there are easily other solutions that could be created. You could have different algorithms for filtering content. To block content from other instances for this issue is overkill. And itās unfair to users. Will users be warned before joining an instance that they are not being provided a window into the fediverse but instead a segregated platform?
People have grown accustomed to having full and convenient access to everything. Thatās why everyone joined the big platforms in the first place. You donāt want 12 different accounts to interact with your friends on various platforms. You want to keep it simple and powerful. And itās confusing and annoying for new people when they see content linked somewhere else but they canāt find it from their own instance. I ran into this many times when I was new to the fediverse.
Of course every instance manager has a right to run theirs the way they see fit, if they really want to do it differently or not federate at all that is their right. But I think with a lot of instance managers it is not intentional. Managing their instance is maybe not the most important thing in their life, more of a hobby. So just like not all instances on lemmy.mlās list always update to the latest version right away, they may not pay attention to the minutia of other small instances out there. And clearly they are not concerned with the problems you mentioned, otherwise they would not federate with lemmy.ml. So I think the solution is to give tools to make it easier for them to federate with lots of other servers, maybe automatically, for those who want it.
Please do, even if itās a very rough draft kind of an idea, I wanna hear.
Personally, I feel like an approach that separates the user identity/account (something like OpenID) from the content server would make more sense for public content and from the client/view/UI/portal used by the end-user to access to the content.
To me, federation between private servers the way mastodon does it only makes sense for private communication like XMPP or Matrixā¦ but the minute you are publicly posting content in the internet it makes no sense to have servers mirror the content from others just so people can access that content from one server in the nextā¦ why not just directly obtain the content from the server itās from and load it in your client/UI of choice? without having to depend on the server you have an account on hosting it? it creates a dependency between the user and the server that hosts your account and makes it so you might end up having to create multiple accounts in different servers, and at that point itās not much different from centralized services.
I think I would have better insight if I had the experience from running an instance myself. I may do that one day, but right now I donāt have the means. But I still have some thoughts.
I think the best thing would be to make it easier for instance managers to connect with other instances. maybe have tools that would allow this to happen automatically. So if you connect with lemmy.ml, you also connect with all of the instances on their allow list. I donāt know the details of how things currently work well enough to give a clear picture.
Second, hexbear needs to figure out how to merge federation changes. I heard they are working on this, which I am excited to hear. Itās currently the most active lemmy instance, but completely separate from the fediverse.
I also think it would be good to have data of peopleās entry point into the fediverse. Do they start at join-lemmy.org? Some other instance list? For join-lemmy.org, I think it would help if lemmy.ml and other big instances were not at the top of the list and instead smaller instances were ranked based on some other metric. There is no shortage of instances as Iāve seen a lot of new ones lately, which is really encouraging. So I think the focus should be making sure these smaller instances offer a good experience to users and people find them and join.
Also very important, Lemmy needs a feature like mastodon to migrate your account to another instance. So people on big instances could migrate to smaller ones.
Dividing instances by interests makes sense in sites like Mastodon but not in Lemmy because Lemmy already has a way to select what interests you. People like what the rest of the people use because they donāt want to marginalize themselves, so I guess there will always be one instance used by most and the rest used by few.
To find videos across several instances there is this (as official as it gets) search engine: https://sepiasearch.org/
In my opinion it would be better to have a main peertube that displayed the most relevant videos from all instances and implemented that sepiasearch. And leave the details about how to create instances and the fact there are 861 PeerTube websites on another tab instead of the main page where itās just confusing people.
Those mostly sound like anti-features to me, i.e. the typical dark patterns used by Youtube to feed you a never ending stream of advertisement.
In one extreme thereās youtube that wants to make you addicted and in the other extreme is a platform with no algorithm to suggest content. I would like something around the middle. But that was just an example. I wanted to focus on why each instance focuses on a different community of people instead of trying to bring them all together.
Because thatās the point of federation that each instance has itās own unique selling point
The policy of different PeerTube instances differs greatly therefore a lot of admins decide to federate with a limited number of instances. This also has an advantage. Iām on the LinuxRocks instances and it only federates with tech oriented instances. This keeps the instance clean of a lot of unwanted content. BTW: A user can still add interesting channels to itās PeerTube account that show up for the user only.
Iām more concerned that deleted content lingers on remote instances after it is deleted.
I honestly was confused on what Iām supposed to do when I was at peertube, the videos are so fragmentated in topics, so I just went Odysee instead.
People like what the rest of the people use because they donāt want to marginalize themselves, so I guess there will always be one instance used by most and the rest used by few.
Because right now, the Fediverse isnāt actually about connecting people, itās about building walls around communities. People want to have their own space without dealing with trolls and content they donāt want to see and/or share. Iād say this is the price to pay for freedom. It shouldnāt be like this, but it is as of right now.
Itās because itās decentralized. It sounds like youāre looking for a centralized platform
Communication across different server doesnāt mean centralized. Without communication, there would be a million servers with 5 people on each server.
Which would be awesome. A fediverse that depends on all servers being the same is effectively centralized. A fediverse where there are freestanding reasons for joining any of a million different servers is a fediverse where dependence on outside servers is minimized, which is a good thing.
You want enough content to keep things interested but donāt necessarily need the logic of any and all instances to be that they must depend on access to a server other than the one that operate on in order to be worthy of use.
A million small instances > a few big instances
A million CONNECTED small instances > a few big instances
If you want to minimize dependence from outside servers then itād be best to centralize, not federate. If you want a million servers with 5 people on each you need dependence with the outside servers you want content from, unless you are exclusively interested in the content those 4 other people post in your one server.
Your subscription to a community from an outside server will always depend on the outside server providing the content from that community. And you have to also depend on your server having connection with that outside server.
You necessarly need every server to depend on all outside servers you want to participate in. Either that or youāll need to have one account in each of those servers you are interested in, which wouldnāt be that different to the end user from having each of those servers be centralized.
The main thing you get in this fediverse approach is mirroring and replication. Which Iām not sure is worth it considering all the other problems that brings, like deleted content needing to be deleted everywhere, like the need for your server to block/allow outside servers so you donāt host bad content from them, etc.