I broke my phone a few months ago and I hadn’t use a phone since I didn’t need it until now. I’m willing to buy one that’s around under 500$. I’m thinking of getting google pixel maybe, any recommendations?
I can fully recommend a Fairphone 3+. I’m using one now for a few months and it’s great!
Excellent battery life of around two days. Installing lineageos took maybe 10 minutes. And I haven’t noticed any bugs.
Since all bloat is removed it’s super quick. On top of this, you can get replacement parts and easily screw them in. No glue, no heat guns, or heat plates. Battery is also replaceable.
I also like the ethics in their procurement.
Check it out:
On top, you don’t end up giving your money to Google.
woah. you can replace the camera and It’s not bad at all. for privacy what’s the benefits of using this phone?
It’s well-supported by LineageOS and will probably remain supported for longer than most other phones. That’s the only benefit that I’m aware of, but that makes it already better than like 99% of phones on the market.
Well yes! It is dead easy to have a de-googled phone. You can then do all the things in firefox etc. you do to enhance privacy. Install apps via F-Droid store (open source apps only). Some VPN provider have their apps on F-Droid as well.
If you still need some level of Google services, I suppose you could install MicroG. I haven’t tried that though.
No privacy nightmare ui (like miui) and no bloat or privacy invasive apps (no Facebook preinstalled and suchlike). And if you ever want to switch to a degoogled phone using microg it will be easy (a degoogled phone means of course Google will not be able to spy on your notifications, locations, apps, etc.). You can try to check /e/ system phones, or iodè phones too (both degoogles), but you really need to know what you’re doing and which of the apps you use will not work (those are rare, but exist)
Just a nitpick:
microg is optional mostly. You can install most apps from the playstore via e.g. Aurora store. However if you don’t have microg or something similar, some of the propriety ones won’t work.
I rarely run into an issue with this, and I’m using LineageOS without microg or similar for many years. The only issue that was a bit annoying was the local contact tracing app, which didn’t work and which, for a moment, made me think I may not be able to visit a sports game… turned out well though and didn’t need the app to get in :)
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
- you can also get a /e/os fairphone
Any one of the recommended Pixel phones running GrapheneOS: https://grapheneos.org/faq#recommended-devices
came here to say that
deleted by creator
I would use an old phone anytime if It’s better for privacy. but battery life is important too for usability, I don’t think those old batteries will last…
Maybe that is correct, but you can still buy new batteries for those models and swap them (unlike with most new phones) and on the second hand markets these phones are so cheap that you could buy another one so you can use it to charge an empty battery, after putting the other full battery in the main phone. If you would want to go full Libre mode, I think they (tehnoetic.com) would remove the wifi adapter and you would have to use a usb dongle for WiFi.
cool! I’ll just strap a wifi adapter to my phone. I’ll consider using this as my main phone. as for banking and other stuff that needs gapps I’ll just buy something like motorola or fairphone with lineageos.
so, I could buy the phone secondhand and do all the blob removal work myself is that correct?
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
as long as I don’t have to solder anything to the phone. a day of just flashing my phone is fine.
I think I can start with this; https://redmine.replicant.us/projects/replicant/wiki/GalaxySIIIGTI9300
deleted by creator
by the way, how would you compare this to something like a fairphone and linux phones for privacy?
deleted by creator
IMO, for a balance between usability and privacy, most Android phone with the ability to unlock the bootloader and has good AOSP ROM support will be a good choice. /e/ OS seems like a good un-Googled choice for most phones, unless you have a Pixel:
Pixel with GrapheneOS will be more security focused and is generally considered the best choice security wise among new Android phones. Caveat is that Graphene takes a fair chunk of your performance and trades it for software hardening, and more importantly, you’re giving money straight to Google.
Other options include pure Linux phones, like the Pinephone or the Librem, but those are effectively still in alpha, so expect little in the way of app choices and an unstable OS.
You could take a look at my smartphone guide for brand suggestions as well as setting them up. https://lemmy.ml/post/54596
Maybe a Volla Phone with Ubuntu Touch preinstalled?
The GrapheneOS is the only good security solution on phones right now, so check their website for supported models.
Some time ago I bought Pixel 3XL (used, not new) for pretty good price, so I suppose your budget is OK for that
That is bollocks. Security!= privacy
And you have to deal with Google’s extra proprietary security hardware, unaudited and unverifiable. Having faith in Google’s promise of their proprietary closed source chip being clean is like having faith in cyanide not killing a person.
If it is conspiracy to believe in Google being an evil company with backdooring intent, then it is a worse conspiracy to promote Google as a safe company for privacy and anonymity, by conflating those terms with security.
Privacy can be controlled on application level, but there are a lot of system stuff that user can’t change and the best solution for system is GrapheneOS in terms of security, as I said in first comment.
Google is evil, no question about that, but Google is just a brand / label on the phone. Ironically, but most secure and privacy-friendly phone is Google Pixel without Google
As for privacy, any phone capable of running lineageos is fine, but lacks security
Google Pixel without Google
has Google’s proprietary hardware
I am sure you make sense. And yeah security does not work that way. Has GrapheneOS been audited by anyone yet? Pwn2Own? Any other BlackHat event?
OK, has any xiaomi phone audited by anybody?
What about proprietary hardware of all other vendors?
I’m not trying to say that pixel is perfect or something, I think whole mobile market is a proprietary shit, tbh. But you need phone anyway, so IMT just trying to tell that pixel smells less that xiaomi, Asus or anything else
Pixel smells less than
Are you implying that American brands are somehow better than Taiwanese or Chinese or rest of world brands? Is this some kind of blind USA cultism? Despite the fact that Google AI was directly involved in bombings in Yemen, it smells less bad than Xiaomi or other brands?
Forgot to address your “muh all phones have proprietary hardware” argument. All phones have one less proprietary hardware layer to deal with. Google adds that compared to other OEMs. Lesser the proprietary “security” components, lesser the attack surface, more the security.
I’m not from USA and “cultism” is not for me, I’m enthusiast of open source and don’t trust proprietary software and hardware. Sadly, but there is no 100% hardware ready for end-users, so I’m just trying to find a balance.
Btw, any device has proprietary “security” components, so it’s all about “smells less”, not " trusted one".
My own opinion - GrapheneOS is good one, using it on Pixel devices is a trade-off.
Anyway, that thread comes to holywar and I don’t want to take part in it, my arguments and thoughts you can find in comments above, if you disagree with them - OK, I’m fine with it. Just shared my thoughts
It is a fundamentally wrong argument when it is said that other device hardware has not been audited, because if one were to avoid proprietary components, the lesser of them existed in the memory and security domains, the better it would be for reduxing attack surface.
Look at Intel ME, Apple T2 or Qualcomm Snapdragon’s Hexagon DSP flaws.
- https://ironpeak.be/blog/crouching-t2-hidden-danger/
- https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2020/08/snapdragon-chip-flaws-put-1-billion-android-phones-at-risk-of-data-theft/
- for Intel, I am not sure I even need to share any links, as it is well known by now
what do you recommend then?
Fairphone, Xiaomi, Asus, Motorola (if in USA). Xiaomi has the best community support if you pick a popular model, Fairphone provides 5 or so years of Android version upgrades with high repairability and some modularity. Asus and Moto are clean slates, although Asus is the least desirable of the above now.
Do not fall for the GrapheneOS meme. The developers and its community is made up of absolutely garbage people (not even going into the racist aspects), but if you asked them the simplest of questions that would come off as criticism, or requires hard effort to solve problem, they will kick you out of their Matrix rooms immediately. The post installation support sucks balls. And of course if you wanted to use apps that need Google Services Framework (NOT Google Play Services), good luck because they do not work.
Maybe you could use CalyxOS, or LineageOS, way better choices with way more humble and supportive people.
I can agree on Fairphone, but all other vendors… Are you joking?
No, and I would not trust GrapheneOS solely because its dev somehow only trusts Google. Ask him why (I did) and https://teddit.net/r/privacytoolsIO/comments/gs4uv7/i_dont_fully_trust_grapheneos/fs82fdv/
Also, if technical support for a custom firmware does not exist post installation, it ID abandonware. GrapheneOS for most people is usually abandonware, considering the kind of nut Daniel Micay is.
What should I use?
Pick a Fairphone, Xiaomi or Moto (check popular models on XDA for latter two). You can manage permissions, firewall apps off internet and install suspicious apps less, and you will have plenty security.
If you want to increase your security further, make use of the Private Lock app on F-Droid, which instantly locks your phone based on accelerometer sensitivity you set, in case of someone snatching your phone.
If you want to increase further security, learn OPSEC. https://lemmy.ml/post/34223 Do not get memed thinking this ROM with negligible post installation support can magically solve your privacy, security and anonymity woes.
Security does not work like GrapheneOS maker thinks. Memory hardening and forced no GAPPS/microG sounds good from afar but what these people get memed into is called security theater, often an insecurity GrapheneOS users project onto others. There are multiple facets to privacy and anonymity as well, but I am not sure most of their userbase can even differentiate between the 3 terms now.
The Graphene group account actually gave some good replies to that thread - you just don’t have a clue what you are talking about. The dev doesn’t solely trust Google just because - as they’ve stated many times - there just aren’t good alternative phones with decent security baselines.
I’m not even sure what you mean by “technical support for custom firmware” - Graphene pushes firmware updates with their OTAs.
deleted by creator
Technical support also means if somebody asks questions on their subreddit, Matrix rooms or Telegram groups, they do not get bashed or banned for “targeted harassment” and “concern trolling”. https://invidious.snopyta.org/watch?v=Dx7CZ-2Bajg
You are the one trolling people with GrapheneOS security theater here.
Funny how you instantly recognised the “group account”, when it is run by Micay himself. It has been very evident between u/DanielMicay, u/GrapheneOS, u/madaidan and all such accounts how they operate.
For what its worth, been using graphene for two months now on a pixel 5 and I’m still amazed by how well it works. Can only second this path as someone who is really focused on privacy and security. There are a few inconveniences (updates, app availability, gpush services etc) but those are all very worth it for me to sacrifice in order to be secure and private. I don’t think you’ll regret. Tons of second hand (new) phones on the market where I come from so should be easy to get going
security? well, do you know if there is any spyware or such like that in that phone? I don’t use gapps
You can say that for absolutely any phone/device in existence. As for Graphene, I’ve ran
tcpdumpon my router for a week against the device’s IP and confirmed that it only talks to the documented default connections on their site.cool. also a pixel?
Yes, Graphene is only officially supported on Pixels at this time.
I think I’ll buy a pixel then, I’m a bit too cautious so can I ask which model pixel do you own?
I run GrapheneOS on a Google Pixel 3 (secondhand). It’s a nice phone - made sure to extract the GCamera app in order to keep the camera app that actually works to the cameras full potential.
Other than that I just want to express my red hot hatred for all established mobile OSes. Its all crapware.
I have a 4a, which is supported until fall 2023. The newer 5 model doesn’t give you much more time.
alright, thanks for the suggestion. It’s decided.
edit; nvm
It’s not an easy solution. GrapheneOS is really good, but you need to be sure you will not need Google service and NEITHER MicroG, because those aren’t supported by GrapheneOS
Do you reaaally need google apps? It’s good that I don’t even have to option to use crapware like whatsapp. forcing people to talk to me through matrix
I don’t need any Google apps, and luckily I don’t need WhatsApp either, but some apps I use (like my goddamn bank) need Google services, and for this I rely on MicroG
A Pixel 3 and above running GrapheneOS is probably the most secure available https://grapheneos.org/faq
reading the comments, there’s definitely some GrapheneOS hate based on the developers behavior mostly, IMO whether or not the dev is an asshole doesn’t mean it isn’t a solid ROM, just like i don’t agree with Lemmy admins politics (me being an anarchist) i can still recognize this is a valuable platform worthy of support.
One criticism is that GrapheneOS only supports the Pixel line, these phones are google and have shitty screens, no headphone jacks and only one i know has an SD card slot, that’s my main issue, on the idea of ‘google hardware’ being evil, it’s possible there are hardware backdoors similar to ME, this is true of pretty much any phone.
Another criticism is that Graphene doesn’t support any kind of GAPPs, personally this is a plus for me, GAPPs, even MicroG present a huge privacy risk, but some people need GAPPs for whatever reason, an alternative security focused OS that does suppor GAPPs is CalyxOS https://calyxos.org
LineageOS is usually my Go To as it supports a wide variety of phones, but there are issues depending on model, as many devices are marked ‘officially supported’ when they are still very unstable or sparsely maintained, LineageOS doesn’t generally get the same kernel patches and necessary security updates that GrapheneOS/CalyxOS does, so these two are preferable if security/privacy are high priority. If you just want a googless phone with reasonable security/privacy, especially if you have an old phone you’d like to breath new life into. Lineage will probably be fine.
I have a pixel 4 running linegage. Its one of the most secure you can get
I just bought a used iPhone SE 2020 for 300€. The screen of my old Pixel 2 broke and its support ran out recently. Still a great phone otherwise. As a long-term Android user I miss a few things like SyncThing on iOS. However, with a strong focus on privacy, I’d say iOS wins over Android.
If you mean privacy marketing, yes iOS wins over Android. For privacy, security and freedom (by extension anonymity), Android is infinitely superior to iOS in every measure.
For privacy, security and freedom (by extension anonymity), Android is infinitely superior to iOS in every measure.
If you install a de-Googled ROM, which you should.
De-corped ROM is definitely superior, but the smartphone guide does well for non root phones almost just as well, from my experience with custom ROMs. Either should be done by all users for a libre pro privacy culture.
Hmm… I’m not gonna be harsh or anything to someone who doesn’t know. you might wanna learn something more about ios privacy.
Don’t trust Apple marketing
deleted by creator
Apple phones home more or less similarly since they collect more info than Google, as opposed to the pro Apple propaganda spread by manipulators. https://teddit.net/r/privatelife/comments/mh9gt3/pdf_mobile_handset_privacy_measuring_the_data_ios/
Also, Apple will just decide one day that your phone is no longer worthy and you won’t be able to install or update any apps. People rag on Android for having crappy long-term support, which is still fair IMO, but they seem to ignore the fact that really old Android devices can still run a lot of the newer apps, and alternative ROMs/PostMarket OS can provide an up to date OS well after official support ends.
I’m thinking in incentives a lot.
- Apple wins if I buy more Apple stuff, so they are incentivized to pull me into their ecosystem. This means they will neglect integration with non-Apple services.
- Google wins if I click on more ads, so they are incentivized to show me more desirable ads. Getting private data is crucial for this.
If you are willing to go through the hassle of flashing your own OS, then buying Android hardware is the way. However, if you just want to buy something that works out of the box as much as possible, then Apple wins the privacy aspect in my opinion.
deleted by creator
