• Zerush@lemmy.ml
    31·
    3 years ago

    Rusia invaded Ukraine, its terrible and criminal, but US invaded

    1. Grenada (1983-1984)

    2. Bolivia (1986)

    3. Virgin Islands (1989)

    4. Liberia (1990; 1997; 2003)

    5. Saudi Arabia (1990-1991)

    6. Kuwait (1991)

    7. Somalia (1992-1994; 2006)

    8. Bosnia (1993-)

    9. Zaire/Congo (1996-1997)

    10. Albania (1997)

    11. Sudan (1998)

    12. Afghanistan (1998; 2001-)

    13. Yemen (2000; 2002-)

    14. Macedonia (2001)

    15. Colombia (2002-)

    16 Pakistan (2005-)

    1. Syria (2008; 2011-)

    2. Uganda (2011)

    3. Mali (2013)

    4. Niger (2013)

    5. Yugoslavia (1919; 1946; 1992-1994; 1999)

    6. Iraq (1958; 1963; 1990-1991; 1990-2003; 1998; 2003-2011)

    7. Angola (1976-1992)

    A nobody bothered in the west. A lot of hipocresy out there

      • Zerush@lemmy.ml
        3·
        3 years ago

        They already tried it once, but now it is too much risk for them to provoke a nuclear war so close to their borders, which breaks out in the EC is more affordable for them and the embargo on Cuba and its prison in Guantánamo are more profitable.

    • Cyclohexane@lemmy.mlOPM
      0·
      3 years ago

      Should probably mention that your list isn’t comprehensive. It doesn’t include all the US invasions (for example Lebanon and Guatemala)

      • Zerush@lemmy.ml
        1·
        3 years ago

        Anyway it isn’t complete, you can count ca.200 invasions since the independence day.In their history, they had invaded nearly every country worldwide, with few exceptions.

    • southerntofu@lemmy.ml
      0·
      3 years ago

      [And] nobody bothered in the west

      That’s definitely not true. I’m not saying these movements are heard or effective, but there’s still a strong anti-war/anti-colonial movement in the West, in both the decolonial circles and in the libertarian networks.

      You should definitely be pointing this out in regards to hypocrisy of state/industry-controlled media and the variable empathy bombed people get from them. I definitely upvoted.

      • मुक्त@lemmy.ml
        2·
        3 years ago

        … but there’s still a strong anti-war/anti-colonial movement in the West, in both the decolonial circles and in the libertarian networks.

        So not where it matters. Thanks for clarifying.

        • southerntofu@lemmy.ml
          2·
          3 years ago

          Good point! The big “liberal” parties fail to join a more nuanced understanding, i would argue for two main reasons:

          • the third-world / revolutionary anti-imperialist movement has mostly died out: most (though not all) decolonized territories have either become a neocolony or a colonialist power of their own (sometimes both, as is the case of some former french colonies fighting against their own separatists) ; as a result, internationalist/anti-imperialist discourse on the international scene has mostly vanished
          • most media groups in the west have been consolidated under State control, or control by private industrial empires, and there is no more “free press” around here (except for a handful of independent publications who publish all the majors leaks/scandals, like Le Canard Enchainé or Mediapart here in France) ; radical discourse from intellectuals and NGOs is no longer tolerated in mainstream media, and as a result racist/imperialist propaganda is the only propaganda you hear on TV

          It’s also worth noting that political repression against State discourse has accelerated greatly in the west. In France after the 2015 Daech attacks, hundreds of militants (most of whom anarchist or ecologist activists) were placed on house arrest, hundreds of houses/buildings were searched, politicians have been targeted/sued for promoting an anti-imperialist analysis of Daech attacks (and the role of the french military in oppression worldwide), and 8-15 year-old kids have been detained for daring to ask questions or not agreeing with the State narrative at school.

          This means only the more radical segments of society (people who struggle against climate change, corruption, police abuse…) get to hear those more nuanced arguments, while the masses get to consume either western propaganda or russian propaganda.

  • southerntofu@lemmy.ml
    0·
    3 years ago

    I agree with the meme but not entirely with the title. Of course there’s geopolitical concerns leading to this situation, in the “game of thrones” of evil empires (of which THE WEST is only one side).

    But there’s more political reasons/facts leading to this situation:

    • Palestine is mostly-muslim and brown skin, leading to a lack of empathy from western media/populations
    • the fact that Israel uses past atrocities (which westerners are intimately familiar with) to justify its own atrocities (which westerners are less familiar with)
    • the Palestinian liberation movement has deep ties to internationalist libertarian communist struggle: organizations like the FPLP/OLP have/had relations with revolutionary organizations in the West who were hunted down by secret services ; the same cannot be said of Ukranian resistance movement, except for the anarchists but they are definitely not the branch that western media sides with
    • the memory of a Free Palestine is buried deep as their territories have been occupied since 1947: surely if Palestine had been a free country for the past ~30 years and suddenly Israel invaded it, the perception of the situation in the west would be entirely different

    Be careful not to fall into interpretation traps.

    • Cyclohexane@lemmy.mlOPM
      1·
      3 years ago

      Palestine is mostly-muslim and brown skin

      Did anyone care when the west sponsored a coup in Bolivia, which is mostly Christian? Did they cry blonde blue eyes Yugoslavians when they bombed Yugoslavia? Did they not paint the IRA (Irish Republican Guard) as terrorists for seeking liberation?

      But then again, even conservatives talk about the Uyghur Muslims, because it is china doing it.

      Yes, the west is very racist, I don’t disagree, but not in the simplistic way you’re implying.

      the fact that Israel uses past atrocities (which westerners are intimately familiar with) to justify its own atrocities (which westerners are less familiar with)

      This difference in familiarity is caused by the very thing the meme is addressing. The media silences attempts to speak about atrocities committed against Palestinians, but does not show the same about the Holocaust, even though it was literally Europe that was an absolute hell for Jewish people for a large portion of history.

      the Palestinian liberation movement has deep ties to internationalist libertarian communist struggle […] the same cannot be said of Ukranian resistance movement

      Again, literally my point. If it agrees with Western agenda, then good. If it doesn’t, bad.

      the memory of a Free Palestine is buried deep as their territories have been occupied since 1947: surely if Palestine had been a free country for the past ~30 years and suddenly Israel invaded it, the perception of the situation in the west would be entirely different

      That was once upon a time the case. But we don’t even have to look that far back. Just look at medis coverage on Yemen. That tells you all you need to know.

      • southerntofu@lemmy.ml
        01·
        3 years ago

        Did anyone care when the west sponsored a coup in Bolivia, which is mostly Christian? Did they cry blonde blue eyes Yugoslavians when they bombed Yugoslavia? Did they not paint the IRA (Irish Republican Guard) as terrorists for seeking liberation?

        Latin America by western standards is not white and not western, so selective empathy applies here. Also, most Europeans know close to nothing about Latin America (it’s really far away geographically and culturally), only Americans talk about it and the information they get is neo-colonial propaganda from USA. But yes we shed tears for Yugoslavia, had intense media coverage and worldwide demos like we have today (don’t you remember?). Likewise for Ireland, are you saying “Bloody Sunday” never became a thing in the West? Please don’t rewrite history

        If it agrees with Western agenda, then good. If it doesn’t, bad.

        Of course, it’s important to understand that the specific framing imposed by editors will be aligned with their political inclinations (and that of their owners), but it’s not as binary as it sounds. Editors/owners are not a unified ideological block. Which is not to say that censorship or self-censorship don’t exist in the Global North (of course it does), but not all media is controlled by the intelligentsia, and even newspapers owned by big commercial interests can defy the State narrative: that’s how The Intercept was founded with billionaire money, and that’s how today a lot (though a minority) are supportive of Putin.

        Just look at medis coverage on Yemen. That tells you all you need to know.

        It’s quasi-non-existent. But the little i’ve seen in western media, for example when reports surfaced about european weaponry in use over there, was an honest depiction. I don’t doubt there’s a fair share of propaganda on this front too, but if you care to look at actual media instead of how they’re depicted by 3rd parties serving their own narrative, you’ll notice the situation is more nuanced. Just like in western Europe we never hear about the plurality of media in Russia: it’s all presented as a unified block… until the government searches/arrests/murders journalists because they were not aligned with the government.

        There are people fighting for truth and justice beyond borders. I’m not saying the media landscape is fair and balanced (strongly recommend acrimed.org in the French-speaking world), but there’s not exactly an on/off switch where the government dictates what you must say (although there can be legal consequences for not aligning with the government, as in almost any country).