sigh
i’m graduating next may and feeling extremely anxious about the whole job thing. i don’t think i’m necessarily awful at interviews, but i’m fucking terrified of them. i’ve gone through several different rounds for internships and i’m just a sweaty, nervous mess no matter how much prep i do. i hate the fact that every round i meet with someone new and i have to re-pitch myself to them. i wish i could just sit down with an engineer and walk through a real-life problem with them. how did you guys go about getting your first industry-related job? am i just targeting the wrong companies?
I applied to a ton of jobs, had about 25 interviews. Was turned down for all of them.
Finally I got a job offer, they told me I would have to cut my hair in order to work for them. I told them to bugger off, had about another 10 interviews and rejections before I finally had an interview with a tech company where the guy interviewing me was an even bigger hippie than I was.
I landed the job.
as a fellow long-haired person, hell yea. it’s sort of reassuring to see that most of the responses i see here and on similar threads is to just cast a wide net and eventually something will land.
from my experience, cutting your hair to chin-length suffices to land a job
Nepotism
Hey so I’ve had a lot of help in life and this is one step I’ve mastered with my friends. I can tell you how to do it, but not everyone has the motivation to follow this. If you don’t, I’m sorry but this won’t work for you.
THE MINDSET
Landing your first job comes from several steps:
- You need a good resume
- You need a lot of applications
- You need to get a lot of interviews
- You need to be good at interviews
(Note that 4 is after 3 because your first bunch of interviews will be about practice, not getting the job. It’s free practice!)
THE RESUME
The resume is not a one step process. It’s something that you should redesign and iterate on as time goes by. I personally wrote my resume in LaTeX since it stands out more than the black on white ones. If you to do this, create an account on Overleaf.com and ping me your username, I’ll share you a copy of mine that you can just fill out with your info.
THE APPLICATIONS
This is the most crucial step, and the one people screw up. This is the step that you must listen to what I have to say, and you will get a job.
- REGISTER to Indeed.com
- FILL OUT your profile
- Search “Software Engineer”
- ONLY CLICK THE ONES THAT SAY QUICK APPLY
You should be able to apply to a posting in LESS THAN 30 seconds. If you are taking more than 30 seconds, you are doing it wrong.
Why?
- It’s up to the company to decide if you’re qualified, not you. So don’t read the job posting
- With ZERO experience, it will take 60-90 applications per interview. At 110 applications an hour, that’s just over 1 interview an hour. You don’t have time to read the posting.
- If you’re actually good at computers (you’re on c/Linux afterall), this efficiency level shouldn’t be a problem for you
Once you master this step, you’ve almost got your foot in the door and are ready to start your life. If you can’t do this step, I can’t help you.
Note: If you don’t see “Quick Apply” on anything, get a free VPN and change your location to North America. It’s not there for some countries.
THE INTERVIEWS
The interviews are about 2 things:
- Can this guy communicate?
- Can this guy code?
THE ORDER OF IMPORTANCE IS AS LISTED. When I ask someone to write an algorithm to find all the prime numbers less than some N and they start making typos in the editor while not talking, I’m not hiring them. If someone writes a brute force O(n^2) solution but talks me through it as they go, they still have a chance.
Let me be clear: If you cannot communicate, I will not hire you even if you have the most optimal solutions.
So how do you communicate?
- When solving a problem, legit just explain your thought process. The interviewer will know where you are and give you hints too when you do this ;)
- When answering a behavioural question, tell a story
- i.e “Tell me about a time you had a successful project, but still weren’t satisfied with the results” you should explain everything from what made you want to start/contribute on the project, to the crux of the problem, and to what you did to make it better in the end
- Check out this guide on the STAR method if you have a hard time with this (trust me - it works!)
THE OFFERS
When negotiating the offer, note a few things:
- The salary range for the title in that area
- If they ask how much you want, give a RANGE - The lowest being the 60k or the bare minimum you’ll accept (whichever is higher, if you think you’re worth less than 60k you’re just wrong), and the highest being 90-100k for your first position
- Don’t feel pressured to accept your offer right away - you get raises by switching jobs, not doing well; start this early, get multiple offers, and pick the best one
I’m past the point in my life of getting that “first job”, but I’ve been there. You have to understand something: People don’t like being uncomfortable, but your comfort zone won’t get you a job. Do it. You can do it.
honestly, i really appreciate this response. sometimes we just need a little kick in the gut to get going. i just made an account on indeed and started applying to some jobs that i might be qualified for. planning on doing this every day, even if it’s just one per day. looks like the most common response is to cast a wide net and just keep grinding until you land the job!
also, just thought i’d point out that this is a perfect example of why markdown is sick on a site like lemmy. it’s really nice to read the hierarchy of your thoughts :)
Remember - It’s about numbers. You can apply to a job in 30 seconds. Time it or risk wasting insane amounts of motivation
Good advice. I’d add a recruiter to coach you for free only that you can dump them later.
Also LinkedIn and Xing are huge in non US countries.
Frontend girl. These are the kind of persons you NEVER should trust.
I luckily had a family member who lived next door to an employee at the company who had a lot of clout. They interviewed me and I got the job.
But I switched careers to programming after about 2.5 years, so I kind of had to look for a first job twice since I’d never worked in IT. Went to a coding bootcamp and when I graduated I applied to a bunch of places and didn’t get hired for 3 months.
I’m not good with interviews either. I don’t know what your situation is but you have to remember that it’s probably not the end of the world if you don’t get an offer. You’ll get another interview in the future. Hunting for jobs fucking sucks, but we all have to do it from time to time.
that it’s probably not the end of the world if you don’t get an offer
Studies suggest it’s rather random and depends on too many factors you can’t even control.
I dropped out of university (I couldn’t stand being one of literally thousands working on the exact same problem, at the same time, that thousands more had solved in prior years, for decades; I wanted to solve new and real problems). I registered as “looking for work” with the appropriate government agency and their first reaction was an exasperated “Oh my! You’ll need a good coach…”. Not the most encouraging reaction… Well, they did send me a bunch of local companies with internships, entry level jobs, etc. I applied for an internship starting next month at a really small shop that did “everything web” and during the interview they asked whether I could start tomorrow 😛 (Obviously they were a coder short for an important project, but they were very happy about my knowledge and skills). I seamlessly transitioned into vocational training with the same company, which was mostly pro-forma given my background (So instead of “university drop-out” I had something to put on my CV). Later I was on loan to another, mid-size, company (which didn’t know I was still, technically, a trainee) and they offered to hire me directly. I came clean about my trainee status, switched companies, finished my training, and was hired by that same company on the spot. Stuck with them a couple of years, until they didn’t promote me from “technical project lead” to “software architect” because they only had one opening and someone else was picked (Looking back I think I would have made the same choice, so I hold no grudge), and given the company’s size that meant there likely wouldn’t be another opportunity for some years, which irked me 😛
one of literally thousands working on the exact same problem, at the same time, that thousands more had solved in prior years
Well you first have to repeat shit until you can truly make shit. Uni gave me valuable experience in how to make stuff reproducible and how to reproduce results by others. Not to say it’s the best thing to happen to anyone, but some scientific method training is pretty neat.
That applies to science, hypotheses, experiments, etc. and there I fully and wholeheartedly agree. But being one of thousands to implement a Bubble Sort has marginal educational value unless you are truly surprised it’s not exactly efficient. It might very well differ between different universities; in mine the “science” in “CS” was mostly absent until you started working on your PhD, and the rest wasn’t even good engineering, just “trying to filter out as many students as possible, as quickly as possible, by all means necessary”. They openly admitted that, and in my case they succeeded, by killing the joy of understanding and burying it under ten feet of “now reimplement this thing that has been proven worthless sixty years ago”.
What valuable knowledge college gave you? Exactly?
No wonder they dropped you. No wonder persons will drop you. You are a lot more liability than asset. But still can’t follow. I know. For assets like you i got a special friend. Her name is Jennifer. They’ll help. Her emotional iq is like 160. But looking hard? For me you rise trust concerns that even jennifer couldn’t help. She is into linguistics while i just am truthful. Nonetheless we did latin and greek. TOGETHER. So go on. You think there is any purple women without a purple bf? Ever? I mean like if i let you touch her:you think i got problems eliminating you? My best friend is just like i am. The difference then is that spraying water is a lot of fun. Spraying fire ain’t or is it?
That is the true purple curse. Knowing people and still no burning them. Because they are smart, as am i. They only differ in color. They are mostly green. I still am purple.
I even like them mostly.
I had to do an internship (400 hours) to get my diploma in system/network management + tech support, and the place where I did my internship (large, 50k employees) offered me a position near the end of it. I was lucky in a way. I’ve also been in the military for 5 years before that, so that kinda look good on a resume too.
Worked there for 5 years, got laid off but bounced pretty quickly into another job (I was aware of some other position where some friends were working at. I did an interview, nailed it and impressed with my previous job records), where I’ve been working for 12 years so far.
hell yea, i’m liking how different everyone’s stories are!
My first job I just turned up at the store and asked for one. My first professional job, I had 2 interviews after uploading my details to a job site and a recruiter reached out to me.
Eventually - you’ll do enough interviews that it won’t bother you anymore
Went to a recruiter, had them offer 5 jobs, did 3 interviews and took the 6th job at a friend’s company.
Put keywords in your CV, let recruiters help you brush it up. IT skills are in insane demand worldwide right now.
I regard job as relative here, because i have two other ways earning my bread that no one will take away from me. Forgive me that, please. I close in on my forties now and surely i never go back into corporate IT.
My first job in corporate IT i landed by just being witty with keyboards in other languages. I had to use a Spanish keyboard to do some Java (no shit: this was 2014) in a notepad on windows because i applied for a windows migration team only taking hard tickets (at least it was pitched in this way to me).
At this point in my life i really no idea about windows any more because i migrated away from that about ten years before that.
But i knew Dvorak. So i did their bs task of programming traffic lights in Java (which basically is first semester for anyone they ever tormented with this fucked up language but nonetheless a hassle on a keyboard you are not used to) and then started rearranging my given keyboard into Dvorak just because i was frustrated and done with their test.
Then they asked, then we talked then they saw my vim, emacs and laptop and hired me.
The point here is: Either you are a sheep or you do it your way from the start. They tried to keep me as an contractor when they moved all my colleagues to another country. They even offered a retainer as a private contractor when i consequently quit then.
TL;DR: Imo corporate environment is all about attitude. Just realize the truth: Most people trying to press you can’t even calculate the Eigenvectors of a 4x4 matrix.
So you can be their slave for their boring lives or you can communicate from the start you won’t be. With actions. Simple actions.
If they press you then even more you weren’t in the right place in the first place. Correct your aim. You can, because your talent is valuable.
They can’t.
That is why they project their slave attitude on you. Simple as that it is.
Last but not least: You yourself are basically never wrong (regarding yourself). You just feel pressed by their bs. Which is normal. Because you did something serious. But people in HR of big companies did quit before they even knew there could be problems. That is why they took they easy door of bypassing math e.g.
Just watch any StarTrek if you can’t follow. In StarTrek nobody listens to HR, as it should be imo. Life is a trip.
Your trip has you as an Engineer. What the fuck more to you expect from a trip ?
Mine was through having to do national service, and I just stayed on and moved to different areas. But just be yourself as you want a job that can accept you for who you are. I’ve seen so many people get jobs too by being in the right place at right time too - sort of seizing opportunities that arise at the time during conversations or with clients. The first job may not be your final job, as it leads you to get into contact with others.
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