Lol, reminds me of one of the Mario games a while back - no idea what the context was, but Mario took on different personas, which I’m assuming gave him abilities specific to whatever ‘form’ he took kinda like Kirby.
Anywho, one of them was a Mexican theme, which made Mario don a sombrero and poncho. Lots of touchy white people on the internet were PISSED cuz how could Nintendo be so insensitive to the Mexican culture?!
…meanwhile, Mexican gamers were fucking ecstatic cuz HOLY SHIT MARIO’S WEARING A SOMBRERO! LET’S GOOOOOO!!!
Good times.
They aren’t thongs unless they come from the Thong region of Australia, otherwise they are just sparkling flip-flops
Case in point: Mexicans loved Speedy Gonzalez.
Literally no Latin American is going to be bothered Or annoyed in any way whatsoever if you don typical dresses of their culture.
We love our culture and love it even more when we influence gringos to dress as our ancestors did.
The joy is palpable. It makes you part of the family. And that’s plenty
Besides, no one here knows what the deal is with getting offended on behalf of someone else. If anyone has a problem, they speak up their minds.
Slurs? Motherfückêr, that’s half our language.
This is one thing ive never understood about “cultural appropriation.” If someone is partaking in your nations/cultures traditions, apperal, food, etc. Why is that a bad thing? Wouldnt people want their traditions known and shared and experienced by many?
Idk im just a white guy who loves dia de los muertos
I mean I’m Bavarian and if people wear Lederhosen and set up their own Oktoberfest it’s kinda lame. Not that I think it’s bad, it’s just that I’m not a fan of that stuff here either. You can totally have all of that. I keep the many many small breweries making fantastic beer.
Enjoying other cultures isn’t appropriation. I think the line where it becomes appropriation is profiteering. If you are commodifying and profiting off someone else’s culture that’s pretty shitty. Obviously that’s not a perfectly clear cut line (who ‘owns’ culture?), but it’s a good place to start.
also when it becomes an issue is influenced by how accurate it is, how overused it feels, and (obviously) if it was made with the intent to insult
It’s a tough line to draw, because even if they aren’t the main profitees, the culture where the thing originated often still profited. e.g. AFAIK rock’n’roll getting popular with white americans was pretty good for black americans, even though many of the best selling artists (e.g. Elvis Presley) were white.
“Cultural Appropiation” is the single dumbest thing I’ve ever fucking heard.
All cultures grow by learning about and adopting customs of other cultures, or in other words by appropiating things from other cultures.
And if they did that didn’t we wouldn’t have things like anime (Japan took the art of animation from America, not only did The US invent cartoons, but anime evolve from styles used on early Disney cartoons), rock music (Rock musicians are predominantly white, but rock itself evolved from distinctly black forms of music), or really most food in general (Pizza’s from Italy, French Fries are from Belgium, Hot dogs are from Germany… Need I go on?)
At best, demonizing cultural appropiation is just encouraging segregation.
Now if you’re wearing the colors or clothing of another culture specifically with intent to insult or in a less-than-glamorous way… That’s a different story. (I’m talking about those of you who think putting on an ET Mask and a Sombreo and claiming you’re an illegal alien is hillarious)
This is the kind of Neo Liberal nonsense that makes me wish I had a party to root for that wasn’t the Democrats
Idk im just a white guy who loves dia de los muertos
How dare you
Some people just love to find reasons to get offended.
Hell, a way to carry a baby was called cultural appropriation by some black people where I live when first Nations have been carrying their baby the same way on our territory since way before any black people set foot in northern America but we don’t hear them complain.
I have no problem with that at all. Please dress up for the 16th of September, the Mexican Independence Day, or as a catrín on Día de los Muertos. My Korean friend looked so good as an Adelita and I was so proud of her.
I guess I’d only have a problem with a Halloween costume that exaggerates a negative and unrealistic stereotype but I don’t think people make those anymore, or at least I haven’t seen one.
Clothing and food are surface, but important, cultural signs. It can be easy to observe and emulate these for one’s own gain either socially or econically. All the while the culture from which these signs are derive are ignored.
Dressing up like a war chief for Halloween is partaking in the costume, but not the culture.
But who cares, right?
It’s important to root these in a history of colonial exploitation, marginalization, and erasure. A group of people whose way of life has been noted as barbaric, backwards, or savage were often the same reasons colonial powers saw it fit to steal from them, enslave, and murder them. Donning a cultures dress or making their food tastes “better” has done nothing to restore connection with that culture. It is just a more polite form of their erasure. They have been robbed of their soveignty.Another phenomena, as noted in the comic, is the chill acceptance of this by the appropriated culture. Here, they face no real erasure. Heck, you don’t really see this in newly immigrated peoples who want to make a better life for themselves. Being seen is success. But you speak to their first generation children and having their culture flattened to the surface signs can be infuriating if you are the type who views assimilation as a type of loss.
I personally think there is space for a member of the dominant culture to appreciate the culture if they’ve been invited. But it is important to be careful here as well. Because you may have earned that right with one group from within the culture, but that is not transferable and that exception must be earned again.
Heck, it gets even more complicated when people looking to just keep their schools open and working sge adults employed couldn’t care less when asked, but will ask if there’s anything that can be done to stabilize their community.
So I’ve written a lot and feel like I missed so much and glossed over much of what is important. What have you read about the subject that really attempted to wrestle with the concept?
Obviously intent comes into it, where wearing a reductive costume without any awareness (your Halloween costume example) is callous and ignorant of that person. I think some ignorance can be excused if this person couldn’t reasonably be expected to understand all the implications of a costume, even if it’s someone who should be expected to (thinking Trudeau Jr or Prince Harry when younger).
Regardless of the hypothesised (or real) impact to the community of someone wearing clothing arguably offensive to minorities with ancestry in the culture being mocked, those aspects aren’t what this cartoon is about. It’s about idiots who don’t understand nuance and repeat shit they see on social media unthinkingly until you get this absurd situation where someone wearing a hat and wearing it well is screamed at in public for no discernible reason.
Lots of people seeing it will do the same kind of wrong-generalisation in the opposite direction though, and take the valid point the cartoon makes to write off all concerns with cultural appropriation, including the valid ones you just made in your first paragraph.
The world is nuanced, and that’s nearly never conveyed well in our current public communications systems…
It’s damn true. I ran a crew of workers that were Spanish speaking. After two years all I gotta say is, is there a word that isn’t used as a dick?
Besides, no one here knows what the deal is with getting offended on behalf of someone else. If anyone has a problem, they speak up their minds.
I can explain. In theory the person who SHOULD be offended is a member of a minority and speaking their mind would open them to backlash from the majority so they say nothing. Its mental gymnastics that let’s a member of the majority “be a hero” for a minority even if that person doesn’t exist. But who cares about that as long as the white lady can think she is a good guy.
Its stupid and is not really about the appropriated culture.
So, virtue signaling?
Ah, as expected
I remember seeing a child have a japanese themed birthday. Some white person was giving off to her parents for cultural appropriation while Japanese people were flattered
It turned out that although she looked white and her parents looked white, her extended family was actually asian. So it wasn’t even appropiation to begin with.
Still whites need to chill, my fellow honkeys, please stop getting offended on behalf of others. Playing the role of the “White Savior” comes off as more bigoted than progressive.
I saw a The Onion video where a white woman pledged to never say a word that began with the letter N. Not only the N word, all N words.
“I was shouted down for wearing black facepaint and white lipstick, so why does Tom get to wear a kimono?”
Found it
She’s wearing chopsticks in her hair which is generally frowned upon. She could’ve used a broach or a traditional kansashi instead which would’ve made her look more elegant.
I love this
Snowflakes: “It is offensive for a westerner to wear a Japanese kimono. You are not Japanese!”
Native Japanese: “We insist you wear this kimono so you feel like part of the group.”
Based on a true story.
At my wedding reception, my wife’s cousins plopped a giant black and gold sombrero on my head to welcome me to the family. I’m expected to bring said sombrero to family get togethers and smash beers con mi familia
Are you sure it was black and gold and not white and blue?
I see muchos Modelos in your future!
A lot of these types of people are just segregationists in a different tone.
Cultural appropriation is when you take something sacred or special and don’t treat it with respect. Sombreros and parkas are just clothes.
Yeah this comic is just for snowflakes trying to feel better.
I’ve had so many people claim I’m racist online for saying stuff about China. Even after I point out that I’m Chinese, it still doesn’t help for some reason.
You’re speaking english on the internet. Not only are you white, you are American and Male by default.
I’m from a time where it was accepted there were no girls on the internet. Only kids and FBI agents. So yes, I’m male :)
Nah dude we’re all 16/f/cali for reals
It seems like literally every Chinese person I’ve talked to is absolutely delighted when a westerner is interested in Chinese culture. I remember being assigned a trip to a buffet for a high school Chinese class, and my atonal 你好 got about as much praise as a baby sputtering out “da-da” for the first time. I posted some calligraphy on 小红书 a couple days ago and I am getting gassed up for it.
You can say the most basic phrase in mandarin and completely screw it up both grammatically and pronunciation-wise and they’d absolutely love it and applaud you for it
Provided you’re white
Although the Chinese on XHS are actually quite annoyed at the waiguoren invasion right now
Although the Chinese on XHS are actually quite annoyed at the waiguoren invasion right now
My feed is mostly english speakers, but every post I saw to the effect of “gtfo this is a chinese space” was getting mocked by chinese people pointing out IP indicated it was posted from America.
This is a loud wake-up call that the internet is not reality.
I think it’s NIMBYism in a way. Sure, they like to talk to Laowai and like it when they do something Chinese, but they don’t really want them intruding on their social media network. The Great Firewall exists for a reason- Chinese culture and attitudes are vastly different to that of the west. There was a joke going around that watching Chinese short-form videos “is like tuning into interdimensional cable”
You can say racist stuff about a group whether you belong in the group or not.
What is this absurdity of thinking that you get a free pass to say crap?
“Black people should have remained slaves. But it’s ok, I can say it because I’m black”
Nonsense.
black people are still slaves but now whites are too
There’s a far cry between me criticising the CCP for things like the Uyghur genocide and other political issues, and your made up strawman argument. Anybody should be free to criticise any country in the first place, without having to worry about skin colour.
Keep saying it, you’re only offending reactionaries and tankies - and it is not even their goal to be happy, as near as anyone can tell.
Oh yeah, I’ve been banned multiple times for being a Chinese who’s racist against China. I plan to keep being racist by that particular definition.
I know someone who said that America is racist for siding with Taiwan on things and then I pointed out to them that (except a minority) Taiwan is predominantly Han Chinese
You implied that being Chinese is a counterpoint to people calling you racist. That’s what I was commenting on.
Whether what you said to those people was racist or not is out of the point. I was criticizing the fact that you consider that being Chinese would prevent you from being racist, which is absurd.
I think pretty much everybody can agree that being of a certain race gives you a lot more leeway and defense against accusations of racism against that race. It would take an extremely radical statement to go beyond that.
… at least, that’s what my black friends tell me when they call each other ‘nigga’.
It’s real simple; is the group in general okay with you wearing doing thwir traditions? If yes, then it’s okay.
So Kimonos, mostly okay, Native American Headdresses, mostly not okay.
Native American Headdresses, mostly not okay.
funny how no one ever comments on using native words for our apache helicopters and tomahawk cruise missiles, among others
I found this after a quick-ish google. Looks like occasionally people do, but they mostly get laughed at as the native cultures seemed to find it a sign of respect. And actually felt hurt when a helicopter dropped the naming convention.
Building an attack helicopter and naming it after a group of people who absolutely fucked your shit up seems like a sign of respect to me.
Like how WB quietly shelved Speedy Gonzalez and the Latin community was like “No, fuck you. He was OUR GUY, we had representation! Now his cousin, the lazy slow one… yeah that shit can go.”
Just not a football team I guess.
You’ll love this example of using native language. During the meeting where federal officials proposed the creation of an Indian Territory, the Choctaw tribe delegate Rev. Allen Wright suggested naming it “Oklahumma”. In the Choctaw language “okla” means “people” and “humma” means “red.” As a result, the area would be named Oklahoma Territory, or literally “Territory of the Red People.”
There are some arguments that “Homma” can also be a war title given for not retreating, but within the context of our racial history I don’t think that’s what they were going for.
And then of course, they named the main university’s mascots/fight song/etc after the “Boomers” and “Sooners” - people so eager to steal indigenous land that they couldn’t bother waiting for the government to make it legal.
There was a group that tried to get them to change it, but culture wars crowd absolutely pissed and shit themselves - they were already pissed after the chemistry building stopped being named after a Klan member.
Usually it is the Yankees who take offense at the expense of us Latinos. We will always love to see others enjoy a part of our culture (as long as it is not in an exploitative and fetishistic way).
We will always love to see others enjoy a part of our culture (as long as it is not in an exploitative and fetishistic way).
I think this is a big part of the reason why some people get all white-knight about cultural appropriation. It can be quite difficult to know, as a cultural outsider, and from a glance, when something is being done in an exploitative and/or fetishistic way.
fetishistic way>
I guess it was only a matter of time before I was called out on what I do with queso.
The way I tend to feel about this is that it’s a jerk move if you’re mocking some other group, or reasonably could be seen as mocking them, or try to claim that you/your group invented the thing you’re using, but otherwise, borrowing stuff people like from other cultures is just one of the ways cultures evolve.
I can see some people objecting on the grounds that imitating something distinctive makes that thing less unique to the original group, or that an imitation by outsiders won’t include some aspect important to the original and then that people that see the imitation won’t get that aspect.
I can certainly understand why those feelings could lead to frustration, but applied strictly, the idea that certain things belong exclusively to the cultures that invented them both requires forcing people into precise boxes as to which culture they belong to, and sort of resembles a type of socially enforced intellectual property, which, being against IP as a concept, is something I feel like I’d be hypocritical agreeing with.
The only reason im replying is
being against IP as a concept
Has me hella curious. Can you elaborate? Is it the capitalist aspect of patents/trademarks and licensing or something else? I believe that people who invent a concept/character/world should have ownership to develop it into what their grander vision may be before someone else can come and write the story/use of their tool. Id love to hear your side of this though because I don’t know anyone thats ever told me their against IP as a concept
This is a great read on the IP topic. I highly recommend it:
This is the co-author’s site and it does contain the full text, although physical copies are available directly from the Cambridge University Press.
Here’s a summary:
“Intellectual property” – patents and copyrights – have become controversial. We witness teenagers being sued for “pirating” music – and we observe AIDS patients in Africa dying due to lack of ability to pay for drugs that are high priced to satisfy patent holders. Are patents and copyrights essential to thriving creation and innovation – do we need them so that we all may enjoy fine music and good health? Across time and space the resounding answer is: No. So-called intellectual property is in fact an “intellectual monopoly” that hinders rather than helps the competitive free market regime that has delivered wealth and innovation to our doorsteps. This book has broad coverage of both copyrights and patents and is designed for a general audience, focusing on simple examples. The authors conclude that the only sensible policy to follow is to eliminate the patents and copyright systems as they currently exist.
ETA: It’s written from the perspective of believers in the broad capitalist structure. The authors are serious economists that support the free market in no uncertain terms.
I would argue that IP doesnt need to be purly capitalistic though. Yea i agree that if we have a life saving drug, dont let 1 company monopolize the shit out of it and let people die for an extra dollar, but i dont know that ill say IP shouldnt exist.
If someone writes a story, creates a character or world, i want that content creator to be able to develop it without people infringing. If someone created a great game, i dont want a bunch of shit companies racing to put out the next title in the interest of making a buck off someone elses idea. I want who ever created that game to own the franchise long enough that they can make a second, third, or 4th game (or what ever media they adapt) to continue telling their story before other people put out low quality content that spoils the franchise
i dont know that ill say IP shouldnt exist.
And the authors aren’t really saying that, either.
To be clear, I don’t agree with all of the authors’ positions. I also think it’s worth noting that the authors are not advocating for an elimination of the patent and copyright systems without replacing them with systems better suited to ensuring creator prosperity while also allowing for speedier human innovation.
It’s worth a read, if you’re interested in the subject matter. It challenged my opinions on intellectual property, but didn’t change them entirely. Things they discuss, such as patent trolling and patent squatting, are worth contemplation. How can we change IP law to disincentivize such antisocial intellectual property law use by bad-faith actors?
ETA:
The economic burden of today’s patent lawsuits is, in fact, historically unprecedented. Research shows that patent trolls cost defendant firms $29 billion per year in direct out-of-pocket costs; in aggregate, patent litigation destroys over $60 billion in firm wealth each year.
(From the above article… and that was in 2014!)
Well said.
Yeah generally dress up is fine, I think people shouldn’t be barred from wearing a costume just because their race doesn’t match. And for children especially, if they dress up to be a hero of a certain race, I think that is more representation of diversity in a good light.
However, IMO there is some due respect for that culture and it would be better to understand the significance of a dress one may wear, but if it’s intended well most should be fine with it. Using casual stereotypes and jokes cheapen the outfit which I think can be in bad taste.
Like as long as they don’t accompany it with racial slurs, I don’t think it’s a hate crime, just a bit cringey. It would be about the same level as if someone were to dress up as the Catholic Pope, a cardinal or a bishop and give people silly blessings.
I agree mostly with your general point, but I want to talk a bit about your example. I think it’s okay to mock the Pope because I think religion is silly and ought to be mocked a bit. Of course, if you’re Catholic, you might disagree. It’s a good example for that reason. However, Catholics have a lot of power in society. They are not as marginalized as many other groups. So the example might not hit for everyone because intuitively, they don’t think mocking Christianity or Catholicism is going to cause much harm in a western country where these groups are incredibly powerful.
Appropriation, and/or, as you said, stereotypes and jokes, are often mocking a culture or a people too. If they are a marginalized group, which often they are if they’re being mocked, then it can add insult to injury
To clarify, here’s a good example: As another commenter pointed out; appropriation is actually about making fun of things that other cultures hold sacred. An example I have heard of (but am pretty ignorant about myself) is wearing a native american feathered headdress.
I have heard it’s reserved for specific people that indigenous Americans want to honor with it. It’s like wearing a medal as a general. So, wearing a feathered headeess and cosplaying as native is belittling something they hold sacred.
I agree with you the main faux pas is trivializing things others hold sacred. Using costume to mock and make fun of any race or faith is different than wanting to embody it, which is where I think some cultural sensitivity policies sometimes mistakenly conflate. There is some nuance when it comes to historical and current power dynamics, certain costumes rooted in racism (e.g. blackface), which would be suitable justification to allow or bar certain specific costumes. However on the whole, I think ethnic cultures should be able to be expressed by anyone, when done in a positive, respectful manner.
This is an exact copy of a YouTube video from years ago
Are you saying this is content appropriation?
