What this challenge has shown me is that attitude matters. When I switched to Linux in late 2020, the reason I switched was 1) Windows was pissing me off 2) Linux excited me in a way I cannot really explain. To this day, Linux makes using my computer fun. When I run into a problem on Windows my reaction is “Oh god, not again, how can a billion dollar company fuck up so badly?” whereas when I run into the occasional problem on Linux my interest is immediately peaked, because it teaches me more about the system and there’s guaranteed to be a permanent solution for it online at least in my experience. So, yeah, Linux is definitely not for everyone. If you want to get away from Microsoft for privacy or ideological reasons, it’s great. But right now, I don’t think that’s a priority for most people and asking them to abandon Windows which works for them, in favour of something they don’t understand and need to realearn is a little ridiculous.
They mention a lot of times something like there is not enough standardization between distributions or that between one system to another there are too many differences, making “Linux” unable to be better suited for gaming, I guess. So well, I believe what they mean is that there should be some kind of a single distribution and a single way of doing things under “Linux”. So I suppose that is the “solution” they propose?
Everybody knows, that is basically impossible in this community. They should know that too. And I think there are a lot of good reason for this community to be “fractured”. Maybe the proper solution is just too hard. So that is what I’m thinking about. Which would be a proper solution? Containers maybe? Some days ago I think I saw some kind of post about Zig trying to solve this problem too.
Not necessarily that Linux need a single distribution, but having more standartized tools for the job. Like Flatpak for package management or Pipewire for audio stack, or finally being able to use Wayland as a daily driver, stuff like that.
Like, not having to search around to find out what kind of package your specific distro uses for that particular thing just to begin to search around to troubleshoot your problem.
I mean, there are standardized tools. X has been around since 1984, and alsa has been around since 1998, pulseaudio since 2004.
“but I don’t like those tools, I want to use these other ones instead!” – Exactly. The point of the bazaar is to pick and choose what tools to use, and the may the best one win until it dies or we find something better.
Does that make things more complicated? Well, it can. OTOH, I’ve got a pretty complicated multi-server setup running right now, and a shocking number of problems are solved by going “$Problem on Ubuntu 20.04”, whereupon someone has already laid out the exact commands to run to solve your problem.
It isn’t like windows is standardized. To set the IP address properly, I can’t use the settings app because it’s been broken for years. I instead need to go to the windows 2000 version of the network adapter settings using a constantly changing maze of button clicks.
I think the solution would not be to end fragmentation and standardize everything but rather to have one “silver bullet” distribution for those who don’t like to tinker and don’t care too much about what’s going on under the hood while the rest continues to use their preferred distro and tools. I guess Ubuntu is trying to be that, maybe SteamOS 3.0 can be that for gamers but I’m not holding my breath. At that point, I do have to wonder what people hope to get from Linux. If they want something that “just works” Windows or a console will always be better - I’m not saying that because I hate seeing the Linux community grow, I just don’t see Linux ever getting on the same level as Windows for gaming specifically.
I’m far from an elitist, heck I’m very much a Linux amateur, but the reason I love Linux is because I love learning, it makes using my computer fun in a way that Windows just doesn’t for me and so I’m willing to put up with the downsides. If you’re coming at it with the mindset that “I just wanna play games” and aren’t willing to work through some bullshit, as sad as it is to say, I just don’t think Linux will ever get there.
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I think the famous phrase “It’s not a bug, it’s a feature” applies.
I’ve been using linux since the 90s. Over the decades, the distribution people generally use has changed, as well as the specific tools within each distribution.
If open source was a cathedral like closed source, the market dynamic would be gone. Nobody would have moved from redhat to mandrake, from mandrake to ubuntu, from ubuntu to the latest distributions. Nobody would move between different desktop environments or window managers. Nobody would choose between different APIs to select the best ones for them.
The thing is, that cathedral often leads to stagnation. Sure, there’s only one choice so it’s straightforward, but there’s only one choice so if they don’t do the things you want or try new things then you’re stuck with what they gave you. That’s the Internet Explorer 6 problem.
Proton is probably already as good as can be in regards to offering a containerized environment with a stable API.
So well, I believe what they mean is that there should be some kind of a single distribution and a single way of doing things under “Linux”. So I suppose that is the “solution” they propose?
Well this already happened, it’s called Ubuntu LTS. Developers have a stable target, and other distros can figure out what they need to do to make themselves compatible.
Well I’m an old Linux codger, so these things like, “Oh a particular game doesn’t work on Linux,” just don’t matter to me. My game library consists mostly of games I chose only because they are Linux native and I’m satisfied with what I have. Expecting Linux to run everything in the universe is kind of weird, like buying an Xbox and then complaining it doesn’t run PlayStation games. Like, geez, settle down…
Linux gaming right now is amazing beyond what I could have expected. Hundreds/thousands of well supported commercial games and hardware. It’s only going to grow in the future, probably to the point where eventually Linux will become the main platform.
It’s only going to grow in the future, probably to the point where eventually Linux will become the main platform.
I would argue that the only reason we’re even having this conversation is that it seems like a possibility that Linux could become a mainstream gaming platform. Maybe not even likely, but possible- and that’s largely thanks to Valve pushing for platform independence and flexibility.
You’re right Steam was a big factor, but I think it’s more than just a possibility. It’s possible that it won’t happen, but overall I’m seeing this trend hold up over the years of things going more in the direction of open source. If you take the Steam Deck as an example, they wanted to create a platform that they can control. It wouldn’t have made sense for them to go to Microsoft for this and then pay licensing fees for the operating system driving their platform. Windows isn’t just inconvenient for companies, but it also has a long-running habit of angering developers and consumers.
Finally a measured take on the subject.
“We were really disappointed that Linux couldn’t run malware rootkits game publishers call ‘anticheat.’ Anyway, based mostly on this, my buddy’s toxic gAmEr friends, and the fact that a couple very specific games are difficult to run, we’re gonna call it ‘not ready.’”
Issues are issues, even if they don’t look like issues on your end.
- I hate anticheat as much as the next person, but it needs to work, since companies refuse to stop using those, and the average “competitive FPS gamer” won’t care if the company decided to not update the anti-cheat version to support Linux, all they’ll see is that the game they want to play doesn’t work (which happened and got into Luke’s relationship with his friends);
- Also having a couple specific games that are difficult/impossible to run is also a fucking pain in the ass (and I say that as someone who has dealt with this a lot before). You spend hours looking for a way to make the game run when on Windows all you’d need to do is hit “play”;
You should try having basic empathy for other people.
anticheat […] needs to work
Anticheat is like DRM, it can’t work by design if you own the machine it runs on. It’s just wastes power for nothing, why should anyone spend the effort to get it running?
You spend hours looking for a way to make the game run when on Windows all you’d need to do is hit “play”;
Is this a Linux bug or a shortcoming of the publisher?
Unfortunately people like to cheat. Cheating ruins multiplayer games and drives people away from playing the game, no matter how fun it is. Thus the need for rat-race called anticheats.
However! We already had solution for this: Dedicated servers. If there was a cheater on the server, you could just yell on IRC that who is cheating and someone would come to ban the asshat. It worked way better than anticheats.
Lmao yes, I lack empathy for other human beings because I made fun of something. Excellent deduction.
all FOSS enthusiasts hate people and regularly rape innocent waifus, didn’t you know?
I think (hope?) you forgot an “/s”.
Just wanting to play some weird games with your friends isn’t toxic
I remember when we would just vote-ban ppl who were cheating 😩
But now, most game companies want you to play on their servers, so they can control everything, and make sure you buy their microtransations instead of installing mods…
I agree that its not for everyone but I was bothered by the “its difficult to be part of gaming social culture where everyone buys games at launch” or something like that.
It’s sad that we even have peer pressure to buy new shitty AAA games on launch. Part of me is glad that linux kind of forced me out of that hype driven exploitative crap that is AAA games. I mostly play indies now. Unfortunately not many of people are willing to do that and only go for the newest shiny, but that’s their pregorative.
That being said, pretty valid critique, although the fault is not just Linux fault, it’s more complicated than that (device drivers, manufacturers, publishers etc not supporting linux). But like was said in this thread, attitude matters: If you are willing to learn and are into computery stuff, you’ll get way more value out of linux than from windows, even if you can’t play the newest lootbox shooter.
(I do miss playing Apex Legends tho but I’m not booting to Windows to play that lol… Would also be nice to try Halo Infinite someday.)
It’s sad that we even have peer pressure to buy new shitty AAA games on launch.
For real. I’m glad my friends aren’t those drones buying the exact same EA/Activision/Ubisoft games every year, and instead we played over the years things like Don’t Starve, Trine, Left 4 Dead, Stardew Valley and a whole lot of Dota 2. I cannot imagine what it’s like to have your gaming experience so limited to online godamn shooters, I’d rather just find another hobby if it gets to that.
I liked the video. Like @marmulak said wanting every Windows game to work on an OS that is clearly unsupported strikes me as an odd approach, but whatever, to each their own. In fact, I find it amazing that Linux is now able to run as many games as it does. This was not the case a few years back. All in all, I’m hopeful for the future as far as Linux games are concerned.
One nitpick, though. That tweet by Ben Golus saying that they would skip Linux next time because of how many errors Linux users generate. He was full of shit. There was also the Titans fiasco, so yeah. Ben Golus and Uber Entertainment should have zero credibility at this point.
Linus Cringe Tips … annoying breathing noise.
Dowvote because he is and never will be a Linux user. The whole thing was made to bait the crap out of it, and kids fall for it, which is hardly a surprise given the fact that the average YouTube consumer has an IQ below 100. The good YouTuber and Videos have maybe below 1000 subs and clicks because most people cannot comprehend good and deep in-depth videos. There are as always, rare exceptions, of course.
The entire thing is like Bill Gates advertising or trying Linux, nothing but for the clicks, people would be curious to see what his opinions are and what he has to say, just because he has celebrity status.
Linux was always ready for gaming, can we ditch that stereotype once and for all. Developers, drivers are the problems and that is not a Linux issue. There is not even a GoG Client for Linux, it is like saying, oh look nothing works, well no shit Sherlock, if there are no official clients. And even then you still can workaround this by using Wine to make it run, which is impressive.
There are alone in Steam around 2000+ games, this is more than you can play in your entire life, so claiming there are no games or what is nothing but cringe. The main argument is, but but there are no triple A games, well if they make exclusive deals with Microsoft of course they will not support Linux. Then there is the DRM issue, which is already semi-fixed and even then Game publisher still avoiding Linux like hell, again this is all not news, not new and this is not a Linux issue at all.
A lot of “modern” gaming is online multiplayer though, and while I am an exclusive Linux gamer, I have friends that are not, and it is indeed problematic from time to time to find games that work without issues on both sides.
IMHO, I think what LTT did here was target group appropriate. For most of the “gamers” Linux is indeed not a full replacement and will probably never be… just like a console isn’t a 1:1 replacement for a Windows PC either. They are just different systems with different objectives.
I think it’s fair to say that a gamer should plan on running windows on their main gaming PC. OTOH, if you have other computers that are mostly for other things and a little gaming on the side, linux is a great option.
I’ve got a high test gaming laptop with an RTX graphics chip, it makes no sense to make my life harder by moving to linux on here and trying to run my applications and games on it. However, I’ve got a number of laptops with older specs that I don’t intend to fully use as gaming laptops, and gaming on linux is good enough that I can enjoy a game now and again while still getting the benefits of linux on these older systems.
imagine being this salty lmao
